i had a set of thor knee shinnies .... the ones with no strap around the top where the knee part was and they wer HOPELESS the first day i had them i had the hugest crash and the slid off and as a result i ended up in hospital with a huge huge hole in my knee.......... if they wernt there it would have been worse but still if i had the dianese ones like i do now i dont think i would have had as much of an injury .... so yeh i dont recomend them man