Ridng without helmet

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

^^
I agree just because there is a unlikely scenario doesn't mean the consequences cant be just as bad. A crash is a crash.
I rode up the shops when I was younger yes I was wearing my helmet, I ride on the side of the road when the walk way is taken up, obviously pedestrians have right of way. I came up to the side of a car sitting at the lights only to have the lady open her door on me. I was rolling not going fast so luckily I was able to stay on the bike just got launched forward, face into door, resulted in a numb face that was it.

But shows that even a simple situation and low risk can still result in something random.

Again who's to say your forks or front wheel doesn't collapse, might be rare and unlikely but still very possible, as I stated early it happened to a members brother on here just rolling around the back yard.

And who's not to say that you leave the bike at home, walk to the shop and get hit by a falling piece of masonry? That sort of thing happens all the time!

I'm all for acceptable levels of risk/ factors of safety and all that but if you start to try and legislate against every risk - no matter how small- you'll soon find that the world becomes a much duller place to live.

 

[driftking]

And who's not to say that you leave the bike at home, walk to the shop and get hit by a falling piece of masonry? That sort of thing happens all the time!

I'm all for acceptable levels of risk/ factors of safety and all that but if you start to try and legislate against every risk - no matter how small- you'll soon find that the world becomes a much duller place to live.

That's a very good point and I cannot argue against that. whats the alternative walk with helmets too.

I think in terms of where Id come from is that well walking with a helmet would be safer. On a bike you can at least wear one without looking stupid. There are also added risks of being on a bike. I think to be honest why not wear one if you get the bike its not hard to grab the helmet.

 

[Anarchist]

How do you find the limit unless you go past it?

I agree
You can always improve skills but the limit is where you crash or max out the possibility of going faster. If you don't want to listen to unknown riders listen to all the professionals who talk about crashing is the limit.
As a dh rider inhave heard a few times from pros that crashing or makin mistakes are good it means you are going hard and you are pushing those limits.
You can't improve the limit or ride on the limit of you don't know where it is.

Incremental improvement rather than the josh bender school of hucking off the biggest cliff in the postcode. Your methods may vary. IMO, major mistakes don't teach you where the limit is, they just hurt your body and confidence. We all make mistakes and have offs, helmets reduce the likelihood of permanent injury (going back to the original topic). Again, you have have your ways and others' their way, but most people learn to walk before they run, fly or teleport.

 

[Hornet50]

I also tried to make the point that mtb is not road - the speeds are disimilar, and there arent cars involved.

So just to be clear, you're suggesting that it is the mechanism of the collision that causes the injuries, not the impact of the head vs the other solid object? ..... Gotta say mate, from the perspective of a crash investigator by profession, thats about as far from accurate as you can get.

It is each persons decision to make, and they don't have to justify it to us, but I just hope for family/loved ones sake, that they can see the light before they...well....see the light.

 

[driftking]

Incremental improvement rather than the josh bender school of hucking off the biggest cliff in the postcode. Your methods may vary. IMO, major mistakes don't teach you where the limit is, they just hurt your body and confidence. We all make mistakes and have offs, helmets reduce the likelihood of permanent injury (going back to the original topic). Again, you have have your ways and others' their way, but most people learn to walk before they run, fly or teleport.

I'm not saying ride outside of capabilities but getting faster is about pushing those limits. If you try to build muscle you need to stress the muscles limit to force it to compensate. The same way we need RO learn how to ride fast and while we can prep our best you need to do the work.
Pushing the limits doesn't means jumping a 60ft drop.
It means start at 3ft then move to 4ft and continue till you reach 60ft. No point just always hitting a 3ft drop.

You need to slowly improve and eventually you will hit he wall when you have reached that limit. I'm not say crashing is good and you should aim to crash but you should be tryin to go as fast as possible and at times that does result in a crash.
It's about incrementally pushing the limits. As you get used to the next level you push a little more eventually you will hit the limit.
The important thing is to learn. You don't need to crash to find the limit but when it happens due to going fast not human error it's a good measure of the limit.

Everyone has thier own limit it's about slowly building that limit wih small pushes. You don't goto the gym and bench 200kg unless you were born the hulk. You start with 40 and increase slowly until you are a block of houses and can bench 200kg.

Keep in mine the limit and your limit are very different things, we all have our own limits which can be pushed further and further as noted above......originally when I said the limit though I was refeeding to be trail limit that is the fastest the track will allow you to go. That is the limit. To get there you need to incrementally improve your personal limit into it surpasses or reaches the trail limit.

 

[pharmaboy]

So just to be clear, you're suggesting that it is the mechanism of the collision that causes the injuries, not the impact of the head vs the other solid object? ..... Gotta say mate, from the perspective of a crash investigator by profession, thats about as far from accurate as you can get.
.

No, i'm suggesting the impact of the head is faster in road accidents, especialy in a collision with a 50kmh car

mtb crashes while more common, are slower and into more forgiving ground (you can get away with big offs mtb 'ing - you wont get away unscathed on the road) If you look at skate helmets they have a much softer foam that has give (lower speed impacts). The speed of the impact has a huge impact on how you design crushability. I think the polystyrene is less than a perfect solution.

Helmets by and large seem to be built to pass the minimum standard tests - its rare for a safety feature to come out - i've mentioned 3 other models of helmets (of which 2 are not approved in aus) which make a good effort, and probably fox recently as well, with their lower backs - but the majority of helmets seem to have the design aim of using the least material possible that passes the std to make the lightest and best ventilating helmet they can.

 

[Registered Nutcase]

I think there should not be a law about the waring of helmets, however people should ware them. My issue is with the goverment stopping people from making decisions that could possibly hurt them.

 

[iguanabartola]

Amazes me there is an argument about this topic. The first reply about natural selection says it all.

 

[ollieo]

duh

Even if there's not much up there to save...think of the dentist bill .. ..

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

No, i'm suggesting the impact of the head is faster in road accidents, especialy in a collision with a 50kmh car

mtb crashes while more common, are slower and into more forgiving ground (you can get away with big offs mtb 'ing - you wont get away unscathed on the road) If you look at skate helmets they have a much softer foam that has give (lower speed impacts). The speed of the impact has a huge impact on how you design crushability. I think the polystyrene is less than a perfect solution.

Not always. You might crash at 50km/h in a road bike but the main force of impact will be caused by gravity and a 1.5m drop. Why do you think Moto GP riders (wearing helmet and leathers) can come off their bikes at 150 km/hr without a scratch?

Come off a mountain bike when jumping or on a steep descent and you've then got a fall factor to take in as well and as for the ground being a lot more soft, have you ever seen pictures of Moab?

 

[MTB Pilot]

So just to be clear, you're suggesting that it is the mechanism of the collision that causes the injuries, not the impact of the head vs the other solid object? ..... Gotta say mate, from the perspective of a crash investigator by profession, thats about as far from accurate as you can get.

It is each persons decision to make, and they don't have to justify it to us, but I just hope for family/loved ones sake, that they can see the light before they...well....see the light.

Well said!

I've been a Paramedic for the past 17 years, and I've treated a lot of patients who have crashed their bikes. Name the type of bike, (including kids on little bikes) and I've probably dealt with an accident from it. I've NEVER come across a patient who's been old enough to understand the value of their helmet, who's not been happy they've been wearing one at the time of their accident. Smart parents who had their kids wearing helmets were very happy that they had helmets on their kids heads.

I've also had experience in my 17 years with patients with acquired brain injuries. Some of these have not been necessarily from bike accidents, but their injuries are just as permanent and just sad as those who have. Looking at photo's of these people with friends and family before the accident and looking at these patients now, makes you appreciate just how sad their situations are. It puts things in perspective, knowing what they cannot enjoy anymore.

There are various types of deficits these people have like memory loss, loss of speech, loss of movement, reduced movement and the list goes on and on. Whatever the deficits these patients have, it's tragic, regardless of whether of the circumstances of their accidents. It would be easy to go on about the life these patients now have, but I'd encourage readers to think about it for themselves.

I'd like those who don't like wearing helmets to have a think about what they could lose the ability to do, if an accident was to happen to them. Sure, not all accidents have dire consequences, but why would you not wear a helmet?

I can't be convinced about the reasons for not wearing a helmet, and I've read and heard them all.

I'm not an alarmist, just a realist based on my experiences. Care to disagree if you like with what I've said, but I'm more than happy to wear my helmet anytime I ride.

 

[rone]

Well said!

I've been a Paramedic for the past 17 years, and I've treated a lot of patients who have crashed their bikes. Name the type of bike, (including kids on little bikes) and I've probably dealt with an accident from it. I've NEVER come across a patient who's been old enough to understand the value of their helmet, who's not been happy they've been wearing one at the time of their accident. Smart parents who had their kids wearing helmets were very happy that they had helmets on their kids heads.

I've also had experience in my 17 years with patients with acquired brain injuries. Some of these have not been necessarily from bike accidents, but their injuries are just as permanent and just sad as those who have. Looking at photo's of these people with friends and family before the accident and looking at these patients now, makes you appreciate just how sad their situations are. It puts things in perspective, knowing what they cannot enjoy anymore.

There are various types of deficits these people have like memory loss, loss of speech, loss of movement, reduced movement and the list goes on and on. Whatever the deficits these patients have, it's tragic, regardless of whether of the circumstances of their accidents. It would be easy to go on about the life these patients now have, but I'd encourage readers to think about it for themselves.

I'd like those who don't like wearing helmets to have a think about what they could lose the ability to do, if an accident was to happen to them. Sure, not all accidents have dire consequences, but why would you not wear a helmet?

I can't be convinced about the reasons for not wearing a helmet, and I've read and heard them all.

I'm not an alarmist, just a realist based on my experiences. Care to disagree if you like with what I've said, but I'm more than happy to wear my helmet anytime I ride.

It is astounding that people who are presented with all of this evidence are still arguing for the non-wearing of helmets. It's a statistics game. You may have been lucky thus far, but sooner or later you will go down hard, and it's then you really wish you were wearing a helmet.

 

[ADD]

It is astounding that people who are presented with all of this evidence are still arguing for the non-wearing of helmets. It's a statistics game. You may have been lucky thus far, but sooner or later you will go down hard, and it's then you really wish you were wearing a helmet.

Not mention a waste of time for the Ambo's. if you had have had that helmet on the Ambulance could be attending something else, like a heart attack or stroke victim. But instead it got tied up with you and the other ambulance didn't make it in time.

 

[harmonix1234]

True stories.

A few weeks back I saw a guy on the footpath in New Town being attended to ambulance staff.
He was a cyclist.
No helmet.
Half his head was hanging out and they were erecting a screen around him and draping a blanket over his body. I checked the paper the next day. He died.
How do I know he wasn't wearing a helmet? It said so in the paper.

When I was a kid I saw a helmet-less cyclist in Hobart CBD get hit by a car and smash his head on the windscreen and lay on the ground convulsing and vomiting while my Mum tried to cover my eyes as she cried.
He died.

When I lived in Orange I saw a cyclist get hit by a car, wearing a helmet. He smashed the windscreen with his head. Car was doing about 40kph.
The guy rolled along the ground and then stood up and walked himself over to the curb, sat down and yelled out "Someone call a fucking ambulance, my arm is broken"!
He lived.

Don't wear a helmet? F*cking idot.
Don't wear a helmet? F*cking selfish.

 

[mtb101]

have a look at this picture. I've had 3 bad crashes in my life on an mtb, I'm pretty experienced and know the tracks well, this was one of those moments where I got distracted by an approaching pedestrian down on the bike path that split second loss of looking ahead resulted in my bar clipping a tree and down I went, was doing about 20ks. my head/helmet landed right on a rock with a pointed end sticking up. Whack, as bars turned hard right I was thrown pretty hard into the track, got up a bit dizzy but what was the difference between being knocked out with a serious head injury and as I did getting up and riding home with a sore head? ... see pic.

The energy generated by the fall was absorbed by the helmet, not my head, surely this is pretty easy to understand why you should wear one, particularly off road. Most of us think we are so good that we can control incidents and generally I can, but there's always the one that just takes you down, why not have a back up system?

 

[Hornet50]

No, i'm suggesting the impact of the head is faster in road accidents, especialy in a collision with a 50kmh car.

This is correct to a point (not in all circumstances), however, as I said before, the mechanism of the crash plays only a small part in the impact between the head and the hard stuff.
Think about the current campaign "One Punch Can Kill" ... It's not the gym-junkie's tightly wound bicep cracking you in the nose that kills you, it's the 6 foot drop to that hard ground, hitting your head with no protection (covering with your arms, turning your head etc) that does the damage. Aaaaand before we come back to asking if I'm suggesting we wear helmets to the pub, I'm just indicating that the risk of serious injury to your head is high enough as it is, so not protecting it is just plain dumb.

mtb crashes while more common, are slower and into more forgiving ground (you can get away with big offs mtb 'ing - you wont get away unscathed on the road)

Again, not so. A head strike on the windscreen of a car will break the window and shatter it, caving into the cabin of the car. Lots of damage done to a human head here, deep lacerations, cracked skulls etc. Put a helmet on them, and the head injury all but disappears. A head strike to a piece of shale of sandstone on the ground or even a piece of gravel will have the same effect. A fall from the 4 feet of your bike, landing on a jagged rock fair on the scone, same thing, deep cuts, fractured skull etc... Put a helmet on, all you're up for is a new helmet.

I've seen it first hand too many times to count. You said yourself earlier that you wear one on most occasions (I think?) so obviously somewhere in there, you're already convinced anyway.

 

[MARKL]

No, i'm suggesting the impact of the head is faster in road accidents, especialy in a collision with a 50kmh car

mtb crashes while more common, are slower and into more forgiving ground (you can get away with big offs mtb 'ing - you wont get away unscathed on the road) If you look at skate helmets they have a much softer foam that has give (lower speed impacts). ...blah blah...

I can never work out whether you are being serious or just trolling for a reaction, in this or other threads?

In other threads I really couldn't give a fuck, people bite, difference of opinion at the end of the day no one gets hurt.

However in this thread you are giving out shit advice that can result in another person being hurt. Why? To me this is the absolute lowest form of trolling - trying to sound like an 'expert' whilst giving out advice that places others, not yourself, at risk.

I grew up in the 80's, learnt to ride a bike without a helmet and remember the introduction of bike helmets. The same crap that you are talking now was bought up then, hell I even believed it back then (till I was about 16). I cringe at the thought of riding without a helmet these days.

If you want to ride a bike without a helmet, go ahead knock yourself out (I hope nothing worse happens). What concerns me is that less experienced more impressionable people who read this thread may take your advice, think 'he knows what he is talking about' and take your advice and get hurt (worse than if they had been wearing a helmet). Thankfully most people on here can see your advice for what it is - I just don't understand what you get out of it?

 

[akashra]

I simply do not understand why you would get on a bike without wearing a helmet.

The only thing I can think of dumber than not wearing a helmet is people you see around the place with the helmet on their head, and the strap/buckle not done up.
Reasonable guess as to how likely it is to still be on their head at the time of inpact when they're tipped upside down and/or thrown sideways to the ground.

 

[buffy]

I simply do not understand why you would get on a bike without wearing a helmet.

s

there are many reasons.

for example i spent 3 months riding in whistler. i rode over 50 days in the bike park and surrounding trails all with my helmets of course.

but every time i get on my bike to ride 100 metres at walking pace to my mates house, the lake or around the village = no helmet, is that dangerous? yeh probably a few percentage points more dangerous than walking, but hey its my decision to do that and as a reasonable adult who takes responsibility for my own actions i believe i can do this without needing laws to force me to do otherwise.

it is simply the fact we grow up in australia where its cultural/instilled in us that no helmet = omg you idiot! disbelief. i was like this too, before i lived in canada, europe and asia and realised that basically everywhere in the world EXCEPT australia gets by absolutely fine without this kind of attitude.

 

[cleeshoy]

s

there are many reasons.

for example i spent 3 months riding in whistler. i rode over 50 days in the bike park and surrounding trails all with my helmets of course.

but every time i get on my bike to ride 100 metres at walking pace to my mates house, the lake or around the village = no helmet, is that dangerous? yeh probably a few percentage points more dangerous than walking, but hey its my decision to do that and as a reasonable adult who takes responsibility for my own actions i believe i can do this without needing laws to force me to do otherwise.

And if you fell over and cracked your head open you I assume you would also reasonably expect the ambulance to come and take you to hospital? If you took responsbility for your own actions you no doubt make your own way to the hospital wouldn't you?