Right of way vs being visible

B

BT146

Likes Bikes
Well, the two aren't mutually exclusive nor conflicting, but let me explain.

On the way home from work, literally around the corner, I slow down and...I nearly run into a cyclist. Thankfully he avoided me. I only saw him when he was right in front of my car and in the headlights. I mean I nearly drove straight into him - he must have been side on to me, and at an angle where his lights just weren't as clearly visible.

The street is very poorly lit (as typical of suburban streets), the cyclist is in a dark suit, no reflective gear, and only a small flashing white light in front and red light at the back (which is useless from the front).

He was naturally pissed off and showed it, took a photo of my car, threatened to report me to the police etc. I tried to explain (OK yelling out the window of a moving car at a cyclist is not effective!) that he wasn't visible but understandably he wasn't having a bar of it, so rather than get into a fight I just headed off home.

As a cyclist, I'm all for sharing the roads etc but at the end of the day, if we don't take extra precautions the cyclist will lose in any argument with a vehicle. The driver may get fined/lose a licence/go to jail...the cyclist could end up in a wheelchair for life or end up underground.

The last thing I would have wanted was to have run anyone over. I could have done a couple of things differently but he wasn't clearly visible and I made a bad call. If not for his reflexes, it would be a very different story now.

Just because the legal requirement is a headlight, it doesn't necessarily mean it is adequate and just because we as cyclists have a right to the road...it doesn't make it an equal outcome in an accident.

So please consider that when riding and stupid as it may look, a couple more lights and a dorky reflective jacket could save your life.
 
Bermshot

Bermshot

Banned
When I'm near or around traffic I come first; ie bunnyhop gutters, go behind, look in four directions and every now and again, sprint. My theory has worked thus far.
 
Mail Man

Mail Man

Likes Dirt
The worst thing you can ever do is assume your safety and well being is someone’s else's responsibility, you cannot control anything in any situation except for your own actions.

If you are a cyclist you need to take responsibility for your own safety, you can not assume a car or pedestrian has seen you or cares about your safety.

The same goes for when you are a driver, you need make sure you are fully aware of your surrounding and drive accordingly. As a society we get in these lethal weapons and 99% of the time get out of them at the other end with no harm done to anybody. This means, we often forget how close we are to the edge of life when we are hurtling down the highway at 100 km/h. Anything can go wrong - anything.

If we all take responsibility for our own safety and respect other road users the road will be a much better place. Never let your safety be someone else's responsibility, if you do, you will end up dead.
 
B

BT146

Likes Bikes
Mail Man, that's exactly right.

I was going at 40-50km/h, I slowed down at the corner...I won't hide behind the argument that a large percentage of drivers don't come to a complete stop at corners, roundabouts, etc.

I should have stopped. Would I have seen him? I'm not sure. I can only guess he was at the perfect angle where he was partially obscured by the A-pillar, and being poorly lit (both street and bike)...I just didn't see him.

I have to say that was one unpleasant "Oh Shit!" experience I don't want to relive again.
 
J

jacko13

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I suppose it goes by when your driving, your driving for everyone else on the road, and remebering that you might not be the one to cause an accident, that you have to watch everyone else for mistakes, not just yourself.

Same goes when on the cycle.
 
enjoi

enjoi

Likes Bikes
On my motorbike just then waiting at a red light. Light turns green, but I didnt have it in gear so paused for approximatly 2 seconds to drop it into first.

Easing the clutch out, roll forward about a metre and blam! some stupid bitch blows right through the red light in the adjacent direction.

If it hadnt been for the slow gear change I might be road splatter right now.
 
Bermshot

Bermshot

Banned
enjoi said:
On my motorbike just then waiting at a red light. Light turns green, but I didnt have it in gear so paused for approximatly 2 seconds to drop it into first.

Easing the clutch out, roll forward about a metre and blam! some stupid bitch blows right through the red light in the adjacent direction.

If it hadnt been for the slow gear change I might be road splatter right now.
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Sheezz dude, that just put shivers up my spine.
 
N

NH_

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I find that if i ride erratically on the road like sprinting and weaving in and out of traffic I actually feel alot more safer. Drivers might think I'm psycho but that just means they've noticed me. I trust my own riding capabilities. Although unlike most cyclists if there is a good path i would rather use that. The coast road near me has a brilliant bike path all along it that you can hold a high speed on even when its packed with pedestrians but people still insist on riding on the single lane road that always clogs up and is very tight in sections. That said roadies are far more guilty of this then mtbers.
 
VTSS350

VTSS350

Likes Bikes and Dirt
A cyclist can be in the right but dead at the same time.

I drive down to Acuna bay all the time and am amased at how stupid some of the cyclist are. Alot of them show no regard for there own saftey or the road users around them.

When riding on the road you need to assume that the driver hasnt seen you and ride accordingly.
 
Hew

Hew

Likes Dirt
NH_ said:
I find that if i ride erratically on the road like sprinting and weaving in and out of traffic I actually feel alot more safer. Drivers might think I'm psycho but that just means they've noticed me. I trust my own riding capabilities. Although unlike most cyclists if there is a good path i would rather use that.
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This man speaks the truth.

Riding like a nutjob, with your eyes peeled for idiots, going whichever is the fastest/funnest route makes me feel like I'm actually safe while riding along.

It feels like I'm more in control as to how I'm going to go against a car, instead of just riding along in the slow lane waiting to get sideswiped by a bus.

The honks and screams indeed just confirm to me that people notice me being there.
 
LJohn

LJohn

Likes Dirt
I also think the Australian system for teaching drivers is a bit of a laugh.

It does teach how to park a car, follow road rules and hold a decent line, which is necessary. But it doesn't teach spatial awareness, road awareness, or common sense. One guy pulled over to yell at me for 'holding up traffic. Get on a path' (for reference, this is on a country road, middle of nowhere. The path systems here are useless or non existent). I walked out onto the road and explained 'here are the tyre tracks. This is the width of a car. I'm riding on the very edge of the road, all the time, taking up maximum 50cm of road. You can leave me 1m of gap and still be in your lane even in a big 4wd.'

He drove off. Truck drivers are generally pretty good, they know where their truck is on the road, and I feel safe having them pass me with 50cm-1m gap. Drivers crossing the double whites to leave 3m of gap need some track time or a defensive course. It's like they think we have a strafe function that lets us jump 3m horizontally in the second or two that we are being passed.

I will also say, as a roadie, I'm against riding two abreast on narrower single lane roads if there is even a whiff of car about. Truck roads are alright because they are less populated and wide. But coffee shop rides through town shit me a bit as a racer. We need to coexist on the roads, not irritate drivers.

EDIT: I'm also of the ride like a crazy man breed. Riders literally need to be 100% aware of the traffic and ride through it, not with it. Trying to indicate and then turning without knowing where drivers are will get you killed. You need to ride aggressively through the gaps and make your presence known. Safely and responsibly of course. But the moment you are in a situation where you are relying on a driver to have seen you and react to you is the moment you are on the tarmac. Every movement on the road on a bike should be made with 100% certainty that the drivers actions will not affect your manoeuvre.
 
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Cypher

Cypher

Likes Dirt
Bermshot said:
I definitely don't abide by the rule of Bikes Have Rights because in reality there is no such thing.
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I'll agree to that. To be on the road (in what ever vehicle) is a privilege, not a right.

I'm always surprised at how few cyclists (almost no one) does a hook turn at a cross intersection rather than standing out - rather vulnerably - in the middle of the road to turn right.

It must require far too much common sense. Much easier to blame drivers.
 
651221

651221

Likes Dirt
LJohn said:
Drivers crossing the double whites to leave 3m of gap need some track time or a defensive course. It's like they think we have a strafe function that lets us jump 3m horizontally in the second or two that we are being passed.
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Agree with everything but this. When driving, I often cross double lines, only when safe and I can see into the distance of course, to give the cyclists some room, because I know that when riding it's not pleasant to have a car pass with a few cm to spare.
I do it out of consideration, not necessity.
 
O

Odinn

Likes Bikes
what cranks Me is where you make yourself known but drivers cut you off anyway, there is a set of lights/roadway that I drive/ride weekly and on the bike you just get no room, so much so that I can either brake hard (its down hill) go the footpath or crash.

Ive been riding down this hill and had cars cut into Me as I travel down even after I ride doown the centre of said lane. As much as I have never blown My stack I can see how easy it would be to unload on said drivers and make an ass out of Myself.

Robb
 
R

RICOCHET

Likes Dirt
what blows me away is people trying to save weight by getting those tiny LED lights...You can't always see them from every angle, me personally I have BIG old school ones that you can see from space.
 
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