Rims.. How wide is it worth going?

[The Reverend]

After a perspective from those that have jumped on this.
I've a 26" rig that can be converted to 27.5" and I'm wondering whether it's worth going wider, when I do so.

The question is; How wide is it worth going to? And are the benefits really there?
I'm not going carbon as I'm a Clyde and break stuff all the time. Don't try to convince me carbon is stronger than... As I've cracked 3 carbon frames in the last 18 months. TFF warranties!

Currently running Stans ArchEx which has an ID of 21mm IIRC.

This is to be a long legged XC / trail rig so I'm running 2.35 Ardent front and 2.2 Crossmark rear (I like it, it works).

Any recommendations? I'd rather not go all quasi fat on it but it's a difficult thing to solve without trying rims and it's something that doesn't seem to be offered.

Thoughts?

Thanks for reading.

 

[teK--]

IMO 27 to 28mm seems to be the sweet spot

 

[The Reverend]

IMO 27 to 28mm seems to be the sweet spot

Thanks for the reply. How did it transform the ride for you, and why not wider?

 

[teK--]

I have 30 and feel it is too wide for most current tyres

 

[Duane]

Thanks for the reply. How did it transform the ride for you, and why not wider?

I agree, wider flattens the profile too much and limits your choice of rubber. I think in time there will be more choices, maxxis now have 2.5 minions.

 

[Warp]

Keen to hear more opinions...

By going wider aren't we adding more weight to both rim and tyre, so there's gotta be a point where we meet diminishing returns?
Yeah, bike will stick to turns and rip descents, but wouldn't it become a pig everywhere else?

Because otherwise, why don't we go straight to plus or fat size anyways?

Genuine questions, I have not been on wider than 21mm rims, so interested on what's up with wider stuff.

 

[Yarrahappinni]

I'm on the fence with the advantage of wider rims. My first thoughts are "must have" to now let's give procore a run on 23mm rims.
Disclaimer: I like a rounded tyre...and have 23mm (id) rims.
I'm my circle of riding buddies, the wide rim phenomenon has started but not sticking. The wow factor isn't there.

 

[Ideate]

In terms of tyre profile, it does nothing. That's what I've found going from 21mm to 31mm internal using the same tyre size (and confirmed on enve's journal). Basically the only thing that happens after about 20mm internal is slightly increased stiffness and weight. You also get more rocks thrashing your side walls.

Here's some interesting reading: http://enve.com/journal/is-wider-always-better/

Summary, there's no benefits after a certain width using current tyres, which some have suggested is around ~30mm external.

 

[mitchy_]

In terms of tyre profile, it does nothing. That's what I've found going from 21mm to 31mm internal using the same tyre size (and confirmed on enve's journal). Basically the only thing that happens after about 20mm internal is slightly increased stiffness and weight. You also get more rocks thrashing your side walls.

Here's some interesting reading: http://enve.com/journal/is-wider-always-better/

Summary, there's no benefits after a certain width using current tyres, which some have suggested is around ~30mm external.

isn't the idea of wider rims to support the tyre beads wider, allowing for lower pressures without the tyre burping or rolling off the rim? the HR2 is a very square tyre anyway, they should have tried that test with something more widely used such as the Minion DHF, or a Hans Dampf perhaps.

i've had my 29mm rims at some pretty bloody lower pressures (accidentally... only realised as a thud came from the front rim hitting a tree root) and not suffered so much as a bit of sealant weeping out.

i've not had rims between my flow ex's and fatties (so in the ~25-29mm range) but i'm happy with both my sets of 29mm internal and 30mm internal width rims. much wider is probably going to be too wide, and as mentioned add weight for no gain.. but i can run the pressures i want at the moment so i'm happy as a pig in shit.

 

[October26]

Derby

I run the Derby rims. Pretty solid, not a single issue and I'm 105kg.
Main thing I like about the wide rims is the ability to run lower tyre pressures as the Sidewalls are very well supported.

I think Ibis use the Derby rims.

Tyre profile gets very square. Matter of preference if you like that.

 

[The Reverend]

I agree, wider flattens the profile too much and limits your choice of rubber. I think in time there will be more choices, maxxis now have 2.5 minions.

That's my concern. More isn't always more...

 

[The Reverend]

Keen to hear more opinions...

By going wider aren't we adding more weight to both rim and tyre, so there's gotta be a point where we meet diminishing returns?
Yeah, bike will stick to turns and rip descents, but wouldn't it become a pig everywhere else?

Because otherwise, why don't we go straight to plus or fat size anyways?

Genuine questions, I have not been on wider than 21mm rims, so interested on what's up with wider stuff.

Absolutely agree. And it's hard to get the balance of wider tyres but with decent rolling tread / qualities.
They look super chunky but I can do without the added heft and effort associated with them.

 

[mitchy_]

Absolutely agree. And it's hard to get the balance of wider tyres but with decent rolling tread / qualities.
They look super chunky but I can do without the added heft and effort associated with them.

not trying to convince you otherwise, but this is where carbon helps.

29" 35mm wide carbon rims on hope hubs (which themselves aren't know for being light) clock in around the 1750g mark. same build with Easton Arc 30's is going to be a smidge shy of 2kg.

if you do go for wide alloy, have a look at the Arc 27 and Arc 30's (27mm and 30mm internal width respectively)
they seem to have the right balance of weight for their width (there is some lighter wide rims that are the consistency of a nice piece of Camembert, and plenty that are 600+ gram boat anchors), i've also seen them very recently being specced on a lot of Santa Cruz factory builds.

 

[The Reverend]

In terms of tyre profile, it does nothing. That's what I've found going from 21mm to 31mm internal using the same tyre size (and confirmed on enve's journal). Basically the only thing that happens after about 20mm internal is slightly increased stiffness and weight. You also get more rocks thrashing your side walls.

Here's some interesting reading: http://enve.com/journal/is-wider-always-better/

Summary, there's no benefits after a certain width using current tyres, which some have suggested is around ~30mm external.

Science!! Nice find, thanks for sharing.
It certainly seems to support the diminishing return of wider rims from that POV. Given my weight it's unlikely I'm going to run super low pressures.

Seems like mid 20's could be the best balance.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

I'm running a 23 mm ID alloy rim on the rear of the steel hardtail 29er with a 2.1 Thunder Bart...tubeless. I quite like the feel of it now that I can run a little less air in the thing but a lot of that is probably in my head.

 

[The Reverend]

not trying to convince you otherwise, but this is where carbon helps.

29" 35mm wide carbon rims on hope hubs (which themselves aren't know for being light) clock in around the 1750g mark. same build with Easton Arc 30's is going to be a smidge shy of 2kg.

if you do go for wide alloy, have a look at the Arc 27 and Arc 30's (27mm and 30mm internal width respectively)
they seem to have the right balance of weight for their width (there is some lighter wide rims that are the consistency of a nice piece of Camembert, and plenty that are 600+ gram boat anchors), i've also seen them very recently being specced on a lot of Santa Cruz factory builds.

Thanks for that. I'd love Carbon but I'm beginning to fall out of love with it. The frame issues (3 different manufacturers, different places, different types of bikes) means I check the entire frame before and after every ride.
Plus the coin is hard to swallow.

It's good to hear there are decent alloy options.

 

[mitchy_]

Thanks for that. I'd love Carbon but I'm beginning to fall out of love with it. The frame issues (3 different manufacturers, different places, different types of bikes) means I check the entire frame before and after every ride.
Plus the coin is hard to swallow.

It's good to hear there are decent alloy options.

i'm hearing ya. i was going to build up a set of Arc 30's before i stumbled across a deal too good to pass up.

 

[spoozbucket]

I think up to 30mm internal for a 2.5" tyre would be about the max I'd go, for a 2.3" tyre I'm perfectly happy with a 25mm internal width but I need a pretty heavy casing so they don't fold.

Continental tyres seem to like wide rims otherwise there is a massive gap between the centre and side lugs, I had a 2.5" Der Baron on a fairly narrow rim and it taught me to lean a lot in the corners.

For tight XC tracks I could see a nice flat profile being beneficial as having something like an Ardent is pretty shit in the transition from centre to side lug so having a flatter tyre would see your cornering traction increase on tracks that don't allow much leaning in corners.

I could be totally wrong though.

 

[The Reverend]

I'm running a 23 mm ID alloy rim on the rear of the steel hardtail 29er with a 2.1 Thunder Bart...tubeless. I quite like the feel of it now that I can run a little less air in the thing but a lot of that is probably in my head.

I've got 19mm on my HT and they're fine but I'm probably not getting the best out of my 2.3 tyre on the front and 2.2 rear. Tubeless makes a difference definitely. I'm sure 23 would feel better as a comparison so hoping to try it first on the 26/27.5.
Thanks!

 

[The Reverend]

I think up to 30mm internal for a 2.5" tyre would be about the max I'd go, for a 2.3" tyre I'm perfectly happy with a 25mm internal width but I need a pretty heavy casing so they don't fold.

Continental tyres seem to like wide rims otherwise there is a massive gap between the centre and side lugs, I had a 2.5" Der Baron on a fairly narrow rim and it taught me to lean a lot in the corners.

For tight XC tracks I could see a nice flat profile being beneficial as having something like an Ardent is pretty shit in the transition from centre to side lug so having a flatter tyre would see your cornering traction increase on tracks that don't allow much leaning in corners.

I could be totally wrong though.

It seems like a mine field matching tyres to rims! And of course it's costly getting it wrong. :^(