beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Yes, but I kept it in position for maximum ring projection. I don’t like going slow on the bike path, so fair’s fair for the other path users. Anyway - the bell’s a lot more aerodynamic than I am!
Santa Cruz Highball C
- Thread starter beeb
- Start date
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
I keep forgetting to update the thread for this thing and things get lost in the "What did you do with your bike today" thread - so this is overdue an update. Until recently this had stayed a 700c flat-bar gravel bike, with the only evolutionary changes in between updates being a slight tyre change (from WTB Raddlers to Riddlers, as the Raddlers leaked like a sieve. Which was a shame as I preferred how they rode to the Riddlers, but at least the Riddlers held air!), and trying different stem lengths - 70mm was a bit too short and had me feeling like the bars were too close and steering too nervous, then 90mm was just a smidge too long and the steering felt ponderous and unresponsive, and then finally a Tune Geiles Teil 85mm stem held court for quite some time (I know, 5mm short shouldn't feel like much difference - but was just enough to liven up the steering response a bit while keeping the straight line stability and more comfortable fit of the longer stem). And oh lawdy that Tune stem is a tidy bit of kit. I've never seen anodising so deep and dark before or since. Highly recommend one if you're looking for a stem in the XC/gravel space and like wasting money on pretty shiny things!
One slightly more significant change came about when I drilled the bottom of the seat-tube to accept an internally routed dropper cable. I'd had mechanical failures of both a Brand-X and PNW externally routed dropper (both failed in their respective internal cable mechanisms), and had grown tired of the lack of reliable externally routed options so wanted to access the increased range of internally routed options available and (hopefully) get to experience the lack of issues I've been lucky enough to have with my various internally routed dropper posts.
As I'm living out in the rural flatlands these days, this bike really sees the majority of my riding. And while I liked the handling and fit (a lot) for punching out laps around town - I was starting to grow weary of the 700c tyres. They're certainly fast, though I don't completely know whether it's the reduced wind resistance or the reduced rotating mass - but the "skinny" tyres makes this thing feel like an absolute rocketship. But at the pressures I needed to run to prevent bottoming them out on small (sharp) pebbles/stones when chattering over corrugations meant it also wasn't particularly comfortable. I was getting home from rides with numb hands, to the point were I'd been toying with the idea of putting a suspension fork back on to try and take some of the sting out of the front end. But I was aware that still wouldn't do anything to soften the bumps at the rear wheel and I really didn't fancy the extra weight and divey front feeling a suspension fork would bring as well. Then I noticed I had some light 29x2.25" tyres sitting aside that I'd pulled off my 'downcountry' bike when stealing the wheels off it for another bike. Hmm... So, that brought us to here:
Well, the "fat" tyres solved the ride quality issues perfectly. Yeah, they were a bit slower into a headwind - but it's not like I have any hills to battle around here so they can just be my "climbs" now (lol). Luckily the handling was remarkably unaffected too, so things were nearly sorted. The only other issue I was still having with the bike was I spent barely any time while riding actually holding the grips and would typically do most of the ride with my hands resting on top of the grips (often even when cornering while seated). I'd just attributed this to the ride comfort issues mentioned previously, but some discomfort still remained. The reach seemed about right, but my hands still weren't quite comfortable on the bars. Took me a bit to twig that I wasn't really gelling with the angles of the handlebar. Coincidentally some time earlier @Wake Jake listed some SQ Lab 3OX handlebars with a 12° backsweep bars for a good price and I'd picked them to experiment with. However once I'd got them, I realised they were going to reduce the reach distance to the grips - so I realised I needed a longer stem and I'd put them aside "for a rainy day". Well, now was their chance to shine. A quick 'Wanted to Buy' ad yeilded a generous offer from @Dales Cannon (and a new stem! lol), and so the puzzle was complete - which brings us up to date to the current build:
Frame - Santa Cruz Highball C (Carbon V1)
Front fork - Bombtrack* BPC (Carbon, 15x110mm axle spacing, WolfTooth axle, and custom machined and bonded "expansion plug" because the fork didn't come with plug or axle. WTF...). *Company has since rebranded to "Seido" but still offer the same fork.
Handlebars - SQLab 3OX 12° 31.8mm
Stem - Truvativ Stylo 110mm
Headset - Chris King (red anodised cups)
Grips - ODI Elite Pro
Saddle - Fabric Scoop Flat
Seatpost - BikeYoke Revive 160mm
Brake system - Hope Tech X2, metallic pads, red anodised bore caps, lever adjuster screws and pivot pins.
Rotors - Hope floating 180mm (red anodised centres)
Cranks - Shimano XT M8100
Chainring - Wolftooth CAMO direct-mount with 36t 'Drop-Stop A' chainring (to suit 9/10/11sp chains)
Chain - Shimano HG-95
Pedals - Chromag Dagga
Rear derailleur - Shimano Zee RD-M640 Shadow+ 10sp (the "Short" version, not the "DH" type)
Rear shifter - Shimano Zee SL-M640 10sp (bar-clamp)
Cassette/Cog - Shimano Deore XT CS-M771 11-34T 10sp
Front hub - Hope Pro 4 110x15mm (Red)
Rear hub - Hope Pro-4 142x12mm (Red)
Front & rear rims - Light Bicycle RM29C19 (30mm ext. width, 24mm int.)
Spokes - DT Comps (Silver)
Nipples - Silver DT brass.
Front Tyre - WTB Trail Boss 2.25 Light/Fast (Tanwall)
Rear Tyre - WTB Ranger 2.25 Light/Fast (Tanwall)
Tubes - Nope. Bear tape and Stans sealant
Total weight - Comfortably light
Now the only question is, where to from here...? Well, I don't want to get rid of this as it's too much fun buzzing around the local gravel paths and dirt roads on it from the sheer speed the low weight allows - but I'll admit to impure thoughts of doing another titanium frame, but finally scratching that Pinion gearbox itch I've had for a looooong while now. Sort of replicating this but as a Pinion'd Ti tourer build is getting very tempting. Might play around subtly with the front end to make it a bit more accommodating of a suspension fork so I can entertain the option of using it as an MTB also, but I haven't fully decided yet. Sounds like a good project for 2024 - but it might mean clearing out some existing toys to make room...
One slightly more significant change came about when I drilled the bottom of the seat-tube to accept an internally routed dropper cable. I'd had mechanical failures of both a Brand-X and PNW externally routed dropper (both failed in their respective internal cable mechanisms), and had grown tired of the lack of reliable externally routed options so wanted to access the increased range of internally routed options available and (hopefully) get to experience the lack of issues I've been lucky enough to have with my various internally routed dropper posts.
As I'm living out in the rural flatlands these days, this bike really sees the majority of my riding. And while I liked the handling and fit (a lot) for punching out laps around town - I was starting to grow weary of the 700c tyres. They're certainly fast, though I don't completely know whether it's the reduced wind resistance or the reduced rotating mass - but the "skinny" tyres makes this thing feel like an absolute rocketship. But at the pressures I needed to run to prevent bottoming them out on small (sharp) pebbles/stones when chattering over corrugations meant it also wasn't particularly comfortable. I was getting home from rides with numb hands, to the point were I'd been toying with the idea of putting a suspension fork back on to try and take some of the sting out of the front end. But I was aware that still wouldn't do anything to soften the bumps at the rear wheel and I really didn't fancy the extra weight and divey front feeling a suspension fork would bring as well. Then I noticed I had some light 29x2.25" tyres sitting aside that I'd pulled off my 'downcountry' bike when stealing the wheels off it for another bike. Hmm... So, that brought us to here:
Well, the "fat" tyres solved the ride quality issues perfectly. Yeah, they were a bit slower into a headwind - but it's not like I have any hills to battle around here so they can just be my "climbs" now (lol). Luckily the handling was remarkably unaffected too, so things were nearly sorted. The only other issue I was still having with the bike was I spent barely any time while riding actually holding the grips and would typically do most of the ride with my hands resting on top of the grips (often even when cornering while seated). I'd just attributed this to the ride comfort issues mentioned previously, but some discomfort still remained. The reach seemed about right, but my hands still weren't quite comfortable on the bars. Took me a bit to twig that I wasn't really gelling with the angles of the handlebar. Coincidentally some time earlier @Wake Jake listed some SQ Lab 3OX handlebars with a 12° backsweep bars for a good price and I'd picked them to experiment with. However once I'd got them, I realised they were going to reduce the reach distance to the grips - so I realised I needed a longer stem and I'd put them aside "for a rainy day". Well, now was their chance to shine. A quick 'Wanted to Buy' ad yeilded a generous offer from @Dales Cannon (and a new stem! lol), and so the puzzle was complete - which brings us up to date to the current build:
Frame - Santa Cruz Highball C (Carbon V1)
Front fork - Bombtrack* BPC (Carbon, 15x110mm axle spacing, WolfTooth axle, and custom machined and bonded "expansion plug" because the fork didn't come with plug or axle. WTF...). *Company has since rebranded to "Seido" but still offer the same fork.
Handlebars - SQLab 3OX 12° 31.8mm
Stem - Truvativ Stylo 110mm
Headset - Chris King (red anodised cups)
Grips - ODI Elite Pro
Saddle - Fabric Scoop Flat
Seatpost - BikeYoke Revive 160mm
Brake system - Hope Tech X2, metallic pads, red anodised bore caps, lever adjuster screws and pivot pins.
Rotors - Hope floating 180mm (red anodised centres)
Cranks - Shimano XT M8100
Chainring - Wolftooth CAMO direct-mount with 36t 'Drop-Stop A' chainring (to suit 9/10/11sp chains)
Chain - Shimano HG-95
Pedals - Chromag Dagga
Rear derailleur - Shimano Zee RD-M640 Shadow+ 10sp (the "Short" version, not the "DH" type)
Rear shifter - Shimano Zee SL-M640 10sp (bar-clamp)
Cassette/Cog - Shimano Deore XT CS-M771 11-34T 10sp
Front hub - Hope Pro 4 110x15mm (Red)
Rear hub - Hope Pro-4 142x12mm (Red)
Front & rear rims - Light Bicycle RM29C19 (30mm ext. width, 24mm int.)
Spokes - DT Comps (Silver)
Nipples - Silver DT brass.
Front Tyre - WTB Trail Boss 2.25 Light/Fast (Tanwall)
Rear Tyre - WTB Ranger 2.25 Light/Fast (Tanwall)
Tubes - Nope. Bear tape and Stans sealant
Total weight - Comfortably light
Now the only question is, where to from here...? Well, I don't want to get rid of this as it's too much fun buzzing around the local gravel paths and dirt roads on it from the sheer speed the low weight allows - but I'll admit to impure thoughts of doing another titanium frame, but finally scratching that Pinion gearbox itch I've had for a looooong while now. Sort of replicating this but as a Pinion'd Ti tourer build is getting very tempting. Might play around subtly with the front end to make it a bit more accommodating of a suspension fork so I can entertain the option of using it as an MTB also, but I haven't fully decided yet. Sounds like a good project for 2024 - but it might mean clearing out some existing toys to make room...
Last edited:
Chriso_29er
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Love this thing so much, in all of it's incarnations.
Quick question on the chainring, is this specific to run a non-boost chain-line using the 12 speed Cranks?
Quick question on the chainring, is this specific to run a non-boost chain-line using the 12 speed Cranks?
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Thanks Chriso.
Re: the chainrings, not really in my case. The WolfTooth chainrings (either the direct mount or with the CAMO mount system, depending on build iteration) were solely to get chainrings with narrow-wide teeth wide enough to fit the 10sp chain. Otherwise the 12sp chainrings have narrower teeth so you get no chain retention benefits when paired with a 10sp chain. The CAMO mount spider only came about as I wanted something bigger than 34t, but couldn't get it in a direct mount ring, but could get a 36t for the CAMO mount (in hindsight I think even a 38t would've fit and would've been better again for round here).
I'm assuming you're asking for you Mongoose retro-rebuild - so I'd say you probably could slip some washers/spacers in between and install longer Torx screws, but you would have to be wary of chainstay clearance if moving a larger ring further inboard. But I'd imagine (but haven't checked) "non-boost" M8100 cranks would have a chainline similar to the middle-ring of a triple-ring front chainring setup, so chainline might be something of a non-issue in reality.
Chriso_29er
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Thanks mate, yeah just interested in how you're running the M8100 with a 142mm rear end. Might come in handy with either of my old bikes.Thanks Chriso.
Re: the chainrings, not really in my case. The WolfTooth chainrings (either the direct mount or with the CAMO mount system, depending on build iteration) were solely to get chainrings with narrow-wide teeth wide enough to fit the 10sp chain. Otherwise the 12sp chainrings have narrower teeth so you get no chain retention benefits when paired with a 10sp chain. The CAMO mount spider only came about as I wanted something bigger than 34t, but couldn't get it in a direct mount ring, but could get a 36t for the CAMO mount (in hindsight I think even a 38t would've fit and would've been better again for round here).
I'm assuming you're asking for you Mongoose retro-rebuild - so I'd say you probably could slip some washers/spacers in between and install longer Torx screws, but you would have to be wary of chainstay clearance if moving a larger ring further inboard. But I'd imagine (but haven't checked) "non-boost" M8100 cranks would have a chainline similar to the middle-ring of a triple-ring front chainring setup, so chainline might be something of a non-issue in reality.
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
It doesn't love being in the "granny" gear tbh (you can feel the cross-load in the chain), but for the once in a blue moon I actually use that gear it hasn't been a bother when I have had to use it. If I had to regularly work at things in granny gear, a couple of millimetres of spacer between the chainring and spider would sort it out. In my 'terrain' I only seem to use about 5 or 6 gears at the other end of the cassette though!
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Just FYI (not error correcting, just extra info for @Chriso_29er) - The M7100/M8100 are a 52mm chainline, which on 11sp would've been boost but on 12sp is actually the narrower option. M7120/M8120 are 55mm chainline (to suit boost/superboost depending on manufacturer).
On this bike, the chainring lines up with gear 6 on the 10sp cassette (counting from the big gear and down...).
Asininedrivel
caviar connoisseur
Yeah I was running a boost chainring / crank on a 135mm rear end for a bit (only 11 speed though) and it was fine.
