Seriously, GET OFF THE F*CKING TRAILS, you idiots.......

[waldog]

I am only replying to this one individually for educational purposes. It was just three hits. When he cocked his right I had my hands outstretched and palms up trying to calm him, so he was at the disadvantage speed wise - so I jobbed him three times quickly and then took him to ground by his throat and shoulder. He still wanted to carry on it seemed so I spoke calmly into his ear and explained what would happen next. I then told him he had a ten count to calm the fuck down or that would occur. He lost his fight at about 6 when he realise I had had trusses up pretty good and that he found breathing harder when he struggled.
I told him who I was in detail in said if he had an issue he could come see my boss at work and express this.
Where is the educational part? What happened after this is that I rode another few minutes and then pulled up and threw up my biscuits. In deal with horrible violence everyday - there is nothing cool about it or pleasant. It does not make me feel good, nor is it a preferred option, even at work. It makes me sick. Physically sick. Yellers, become abusers, become threateners, become hitters... That is the natural progression of things, so nip it in the bud in the first step.

Thanks for replying GD.

I'm pretty confident we're in different lines of work, but I too unfortunately see violence/aggression on a regular basis, and yep, it's not cool.

Definitely agree on the stopping the progression side of things, and it sure sounds like it was needed in this situation. It certainly seems like the reality of violence affects you, and that may sound really bloody weird thing to say, but it's a good thing, because the moment it doesn't affect you it's become the norm and acceptable.

Well I hope the little guy isn't too shaken up and that he's not to gun shy about getting out on the bike again, and I hope you don't need to bust out the "guns" again on the trails.

Cheers, Grant.

 

[eastie]

.... a one way only DH trail....

There it is, right there in the fine print. And he's willing to warn you. The problem is?

 

[pink poodle]

There it is, right there in the fine print. And he's willing to warn you. The problem is?

When was a DH trail ever 2 way?

 

[placebo]

Well I hope the little guy isn't too shaken up and that he's not to gun shy about getting out on the bike again...

As a fellow 29er rider, I'm sure Brad is fine, and the attitude that comes with riding a 29er is still strong within him, undiminished by a trifling physical setback.

 

[johnny]

When was a DH trail ever 2 way?

These trails in question used to be two way but the near misses got too much and they had to be made one way. I was even part of the crew that dug the new trail next to it so people who wanted to climb had somewhere to ride. There are signs up at the trail openings saying no entry, one way trail but people still choose to ignore them. I won't swing punches at anyone unless it's self defence but I would have no pity for anyone who did get punched out for ignoring a trail sign and putting someone's safety in jeopardy.

I also get annoyed by people who let their dogs run about on bike paths. Only once did I say anything when this lab ran out in front of me and I had to fully lock up to avoid it. All I said was "Maybe you should put a leash on your dog" - said simply and mildly. I was more pissed off that they ignored the safety of the dog than my front wheel.

I also get a little frustrated when people say that we should ride with the expectation that people will be dumb and sit in dumb sections. Firstly, it's not just that I nearly run in to people and get hurt but it's even on slower sections where there's no likely collision where people sit on the track and force people going for a ride to go around them - that arrogance and laziness is just annoying. Secondly, whilst yes, the world is an imperfect place and we have to be prepared for the worst, I still don't think that it should be accepted as the standard. If people are doing dumb things that jeopardise the safety of others, shouldn't we try and minimise that behaviour?

 

[pink poodle]

These trails in question used to be two way but the near misses got too much and they had to be made one way. I was even part of the crew that dug the new trail next to it so people who wanted to climb had somewhere to ride. There are signs up at the trail openings saying no entry, one way trail but people still choose to ignore them. I won't swing punches at anyone unless it's self defence but I would have no pity for anyone who did get punched out for ignoring a trail sign and putting someone's safety in jeopardy.

I also get annoyed by people who let their dogs run about on bike paths. Only once did I say anything when this lab ran out in front of me and I had to fully lock up to avoid it. All I said was "Maybe you should put a leash on your dog" - said simply and mildly. I was more pissed off that they ignored the safety of the dog than my front wheel.

I also get a little frustrated when people say that we should ride with the expectation that people will be dumb and sit in dumb sections. Firstly, it's not just that I nearly run in to people and get hurt but it's even on slower sections where there's no likely collision where people sit on the track and force people going for a ride to go around them - that arrogance and laziness is just annoying. Secondly, whilst yes, the world is an imperfect place and we have to be prepared for the worst, I still don't think that it should be accepted as the standard. If people are doing dumb things that jeopardise the safety of others, shouldn't we try and minimise that behaviour?

People are frustrating.

 

[GDonehue]

You've got to be kidding me mate. I think you need to pay closer attention to what I've said as I think you've misread/misunderstood something.

I have re-read it, and I think maybe it is the thread title, your uber pissed off tone and the fact you have not been able to approach any counter view in an adult fashion that has me thinking you may not be handling these situations to 100% of you undoubted abilities...
I could be wrong of course, and if so, I apologise for misinterpreting the 50-of signs that you need to go shopping for a sense of humour this weekend and let it go

 

[Nambra]

I could be wrong too GD, but I'm just not seeing any venom in johnny's posts. All I read is johnny's frustrations at having ignorant/stupid people putting themselves and johnny at significant risk by stopping in really inappropriate places on trails, with his response in his own words "a reflex reaction out of my fear of serious injury, not an act of aggression". And, "I was more pissed off that they ignored the safety of the dog" indicates to me that he is as concerned about the wellbeing of other trail users as he is of his own.

I'm trying to think of another sport involving significant speed and risk of injury where you have skilled and experienced folk mixed with amateurs and novices like you do with mountain biking, but nothing springs to mind - I'll happily stand corrected if anyone can think of another one. When we go riding on public tracks, it's a bit like throwing the V8 supercars, a whole bunch of Sunday drivers plus pedestrians with dogs together at Bathurst - it would be a recipe for carnage. And johnny, in his [insert johnny's preferred make] V8, doesn't really want to slow down for all the muppets because he wants to drive (ride) to his ability and enjoy himself, which he generally can do if everyone else is being sensible. I agree that people should be called out for doing dumb things and putting themselves and others at risk; mountain biking is a dangerous sport and the more people on trails that understand that the better. With the rapid increase in the popularity of mountain biking, things will become progressively more dangerous as more 'uneducated' or just plain ignorant people are out on trails with little regard for themselves or others.

As my post-count indicates, I'm one of the newbies that all you seasoned veterans probably hate seeing out riding. In my defense though, I've got enough grey hair to know the difference between dumb and sensible, and I also consider being out in the bush on a bike a privilege as opposed to a selfish indulgence that would justify 'Brads' self-righteous behaviour in his own mind.

 

[ianganderton]

.

I'm trying to think of another sport involving significant speed and risk of injury where you have skilled and experienced folk mixed with amateurs and novices like you do with mountain biking, but nothing springs to mind - I'll happily stand corrected if anyone can think of another one. When we go riding on public tracks, it's a bit like throwing the V8 supercars, a whole bunch of Sunday drivers plus pedestrians with dogs together at Bathurst - it would be a recipe for carnage. And johnny, in his [insert johnny's preferred make] V8, doesn't really want to slow down for all the muppets because he wants to drive (ride) to his ability and enjoy himself, which he generally can do if everyone else is being sensible. .

This is one of the arguments used to ban mountain bikes from national parks and other public access mixed use areas

 

[pink poodle]

I think this thread is getting out of hand! Like some kind of war amongst riders. All about who deals with cock head trail fuckers the best...sheeeeesh! We need to get back to the real issue at hand here, and remind ourselves why we are out there....GET OFF THE BRAKES! Fuck me! Could people stop skidding on things they find too steep, too sharp, too technical, too big...find your balls, put them in your ride pack, and get amongst it. Oh and your brakes have this thing called modulation for a reason. Do you Skid your car for every slow down?

 

[climberman]

I'm trying to think of another sport involving significant speed and risk of injury where you have skilled and experienced folk mixed with amateurs and novices like you do with mountain biking, but nothing springs to mind - I'll happily stand corrected if anyone can think of another one. When we go riding on public tracks, it's a bit like throwing the V8 supercars, a whole bunch of Sunday drivers plus pedestrians with dogs together at Bathurst - it would be a recipe for carnage. And johnny, in his [insert johnny's preferred make] V8, doesn't really want to slow down for all the muppets because he wants to drive (ride) to his ability and enjoy himself, which he generally can do if everyone else is being sensible. I agree that people should be called out for doing dumb things and putting themselves and others at risk; mountain biking is a dangerous sport and the more people on trails that understand that the better. With the rapid increase in the popularity of mountain biking, things will become progressively more dangerous as more 'uneducated' or just plain ignorant people are out on trails with little regard for themselves or others.
.

Skiing / snowboarding.
Sitting on tracks / under rollovers is a big fkn no-no. In a classic skier vs. snowboarder standoff, it's always assumed that boarders are sitting int eh way. This is because 95% of the time it's true. I spray em in the face with snow at high speed and casually say..... don't sit on the trail mate !

 

[Nambra]

This is one of the arguments used to ban mountain bikes from national parks and other public access mixed use areas

I would have thought that banning mtb in national parks is more related to environmental impact than safety concerns - riding on fire roads is ok AFAIK. I'm lucky to have a very progressive local council that is fully embracing mountain biking and actively developing trail parks in public reserves that are perhaps less environmentally sensitive. I'm not sure how they deal with the public liability side of things but they obviously manage it, and I think the economic benefit has something to do with it as well.

 

[Nambra]

Skiing / snowboarding.
Sitting on tracks / under rollovers is a big fkn no-no. In a classic skier vs. snowboarder standoff, it's always assumed that boarders are sitting int eh way. This is because 95% of the time it's true. I spray em in the face with snow at high speed and casually say..... don't sit on the trail mate !

Touche sir, I stand corrected. Being in QLD though, snow sports don't exactly spring to mind... surfing would fall into the same category though.

 

[safreek]

I think this thread is getting out of hand! Like some kind of war amongst riders. All about who deals with cock head trail fuckers the best...sheeeeesh! We need to get back to the real issue at hand here, and remind ourselves why we are out there....GET OFF THE BRAKES! Fuck me! Could people stop skidding on things they find too steep, too sharp, too technical, too big...find your balls, put them in your ride pack, and get amongst it. Oh and your brakes have this thing called modulation for a reason. Do you Skid your car for every slow down?

Modulation, wtf is that. My brakes are old school hayes, clamp on, clamp off.

 

[bikeyoulongtime]

Skiing / snowboarding.
Sitting on tracks / under rollovers is a big fkn no-no. In a classic skier vs. snowboarder standoff, it's always assumed that boarders are sitting int eh way. This is because 95% of the time it's true. I spray em in the face with snow at high speed and casually say..... don't sit on the trail mate !

I went 99% backcountry for this reason. Too many fuckwits, too many egos, too many weekend warriors, too many people who think there's a fucking hot tub full of champagne and titties if they get downhill the fastest, only to stand another 30 minutes in a queue getting angry. It's also the reason I really dig riding my bike/skiing/boarding anywhere far the fuck away. Why be a dick about it? Skill up, go the full Candide and just jump people if they really get on your goat and you're really *that* good. Or just take a chill pill and enjoy being out there. Or go shred your honkies off down the vast untouched, only a short hike away.

Back on topic, yep, there's a basic level of awareness that is a really good thing to work on. Why are people numbtards? That's a pub debate. What constitutes numbtardedness? it's dependent on your point of view. The person sitting on a ski hill might have just crashed, or they might be learning (like we all did once). The person out walking/dog walking might be doing the same thing we all did once/still do - 'no MTBs allowed? one way trail? pfffft - screw that!'. So you gotta take the swings with the roundabouts. It's perfectly fine to get on the interweb and vent. After all, thats what the interwebs are for!

...and those fucking echidnas. Fence the trails, I say. Maybe if we're feeling nice, give them crossing points by building doubles.

 

[johnny]

I have re-read it, and I think maybe it is the thread title, your uber pissed off tone and the fact you have not been able to approach any counter view in an adult fashion that has me thinking you may not be handling these situations to 100% of you undoubted abilities...
I could be wrong of course, and if so, I apologise for misinterpreting the 50-of signs that you need to go shopping for a sense of humour this weekend and let it go

Ha, yeah, rightio, you're going to read what you want in to my posts regardless what I say or do. So, all yours mate.

 

[placebo]

I think this thread is getting out of hand! Like some kind of war amongst riders. All about who deals with cock head trail fuckers the best...sheeeeesh!

It's not even close. Gdonehue. Don't raise your voice, don't make any sudden movements, don't make eye contact, or you'll be in world of hurt. If you come at the king, you best not miss.

 

[Live2DieTrying]

Something to add to this thread is bloody dog walkers letting their dogs take a dump in the middle of the track!!
And these people would walk them along the same track the next day and just step over it. So bloody inconsiderate!
There's not much worse than riding through dog shit to spoil a nice ride.

 

[shake_rattle_and_ roll]

A lot of it's that unfortunate by-product of mtbing's increasing popularity. In most cases these incidents come down to a lack of understanding & awareness of trail etiquette (or the implications for lapses in commonsense despite the obviousness of the outcomes) for these relative new-comers to the sport, who in a sea of marketing, misconceptions & gung-ho naivety get themselves & other riders into all sorts of trouble. Conversely I also think there's plenty of occasions where the more seasoned of us, who've been around the block for years, can be quite intolerant of these newbs & rather than taking some time to politely explain the error in the ways of said dickheads being stopped in the middle of a blind corner/transition/ having a group pow-wow on the trail, instead the seasoned guys can go off the handle or be completely dismissive & shunty towards them.

I mean there's no two ways about it, in the case of riders climbing up clearly marked & signed descending trail or blatantly endangering other riders & trail users then, yeah, that idiocy deserves a pretty stern dressing down & any lipiness from the offender is liable to result in a homemade facelift, but I'd like to think that level of incident on the trail is reasonably isolated.

At the risk of sounding like I'm suggesting this thread be amalgamated with the "Grumpy Old Man" thread, I think one of the big things for the riders who've been around a while is the fact that vehicles like Farkin/Rotorburn were thriving digital hubs of dialogue & people formed & rode with like-minded crews of riders, & everyone did a good job of keeping each other in check. MTBing was community. You generally didn't have a great number of riders who just 'dabbled' in mtbing- you either did or you didn't. You were either a MTBER or you weren't; we sought information, connected & banded together though shin scabs & stories of glorious stupidity. In exactly the way surfing has evolved (as a recreation/sport/culture/technology), as mtbing has become a more popular sport & the abundance of accessible trail info being located at the click of a button, so too has our culture evolved, & it has brought with it a whole population of recreational dabblers/"part-timers" to our trails who are coming into the sport from a completely different angle to most of us. Much like the ever changing face of surfing's floundering kook, dropping in on you or cluttering the lineup while they flounder on their board, mtbing's going through exactly the same thing. And those of us for whom mtbing is an integral part of their being/life-force/purpose etc.,we're going to have to get used to it. I'd be appalled if mtbing developed an entrenched culture where a "locals-only-esque" mentality or attitude was present.

Lord knows letting fly with the intent of hurting someone should always be the last option resorted to so hopefully GDonohue's situation is one of those incredibly rare incidents. It is apparent that there's a sense of remorse over it unfolding the way it did, & I'd be lying if I said I hadn't actively pulled up or chased down guys who I deemed to "have ought to know better" for a dressing down on trail behaviour, but it's safe to say that there will always be an exceptional category of fuckwit such a Brad or Kenny "The Warrior" Kookton. Both will always require being put in there place- be it because they're being a stationary trail liability or because they're being complete Stravaholes. As too will there be always be a need to remind ourselves that we all started out somewhere & benefited from a bit of helpful advice along the way- even when we might've figured we knew shit about mtbing.

Fundamentally so long as we're all adopting a "Be a dude. Don't be a dick." attitude to our mtbing then as a lifestyle we all ultimately benefit from it- people do less dumb shit out on the trail & we more-often-than-not get home safely & have had a good time.

But yes, I f#@ing hate people who do dumb shit on trails.

 

[stirk]

I'm trying to think of another sport involving significant speed and risk of injury where you have skilled and experienced folk mixed with amateurs and novices like you do with mountain biking, but nothing springs to mind - I'll happily stand corrected if anyone can think of another one. .

Not exactly a sport but driving a car springs to mind as an activity where you have novices and skilled people and just plain dumb people all zooming about in big heavy vehicles. People park their vehicles in stupid places too.