Slightly OT: Defend pack cycling!!!

[Techno Destructo]

Well, it looks like more anti-cycling bullshit is being pushed by some people. On the Sydney Morning Herald site , there's a story on the front about a pack of cyclists that had a crash this morning. They've now put up a poll asking the general public when, if ever, pack cyclists should be allowed on the road.

This is completely stupid and pointless.

"But why should I care? I'm a mountain biker! Not a roadie!"

You should care because crap like this can affect the average "bikes are toys" motorist who might start thinking that bicycles have no right being on the road. Which means, anytime you ride on the road, either to get to work, or coming or going from the trails, or seeing friends, etc... you might be more at risk by some redneck inbred cutting you off/squeezing you into the gutter/buzzing your tower, etc...

I know this isn't an official poll on their site, but politicians and the general public do read this stuff for quick glimpses of public opinion. MAKE YOURS HEARD! Vote "ALL THE TIME" for pack cyclists!

If you think you can help our cause by giving a well written and sensible comment, put one down in the "Have your say" section as well. Or just read some of the moronic comments for a laugh.

My personal favorite is the "Cyclists don't pay rego, so they shouldn't be on the road". If you don't know why I find that the funniest, PM me, or we could start another thread... but then we're getting even more OT.

Thanks everybody!

And remember - we DO have the right to an ENTIRE LANE.


[edit:Ty: added link]

 

[Simo]

isn't it illegal to ride on the footpath or soemthing?

My personal favorite is the "Cyclists don't pay rego, so they shouldn't be on the road".

gotta love it!

edit: quote

 

[Techno Destructo]

isn't it illegal to ride on the footpath or soemthing?

Yep! You're right, Simo. Unless it's marked. Which I'm sure all of you can agree is pretty rare.

Heck, maybe a few of you have been hassled by the cops for riding on the footpath...

 

[Simo]

yep, they said my bike was to big (?!!!????!!) to be on the footpath :lol:

i have to admit though, driving down breach road (a main road) at peakhour when the bikers are taking up an entire lane is really annoying.
Maybe pack riding on roads should be restricted to non peak hour times.

 

[CHEWY]

just voted... lookin good

Any time - 37%

Never - 26%

Only at weekends - 9%

Only outside rush hours - 25%

 

[Techno Destructo]

Well, riding in a pack is WAY safer than riding alone or forced to ride in the gutter. When you're not in a pack, you get people who instead of passing in the outside lane, blow by you, usually with only inches to spare.

And as for the peak hour thing. Look how many people are plugging up the roads in massive traffic jams in their cars when they're the only ones inside. I don't mean trades people (who need to transport their tools and such), or taxis (as bad as they are, it's good that they're around), or other special cases.

A good experiment is ride by a traffic jam during peak hour in the morning or afternoon (on the sidewalk, if you'd like - just don't get busted :wink: ). Look at the people driving. Check the ratio of single drivers who could just as easily be riding a bike, with everybody else. You'll probably find that more than 80% of the vehicles are single drivers. Wow. Aren't they getting to work quickly!

You can fit six bikes in the space of one car on the road. Now imagine freeing up the space of 5 cars each time 6 people choose to leave their car at home and ride to work. Suddenly, the road becomes a LOT less crowded. Now traffic is actually flowing and not moving at 5 km an hour. Suddenly everybody can get to work faster.

Wouldn't it be great, that if there was a day you really needed the car, say an emergency or you have to move something really big, or you have to get from point a to b fast during peak hour for some reason, and there was very little congestion on the roads?

Bikes don't cause congestion. Single drivers do.

 

[Ty]

OT: see the results from the other polls

Should school hours be longer?
Yes - 41%
No - 54%
Unsure - 5%
Total Votes: 3175 Poll date: 07/07/03

morons, and who votes i don't know? if you don't know, don't vote, no-one is forcing you to answer

 

[Gonzo]

My brother told me that the other night on the news they were talking about a study done around sydney that said it was generally faster to ride than to drive.

I just read the article. I was just riding across the spit yesterday and nearly got side swiped by a ute that hurtled pass me.

 

[Simo]

im not talking about riders who are riding to commute, i mean just people who are going for a ride.

if they ar commuting by all means, ride!

 

[Techno Destructo]

Ty: Yeah... these polls really make you wonder what runs through the minds of some of these people. If you don't have an opinion... WHY CHECK THE UNSURE/UNDECIDED BOX?!?!? Just look at the results!

Chewy: yeah, thank god we've got the majority, but it seems that one out of four people think packs should NEVER be on the road?!? Gee, that makes me feel safe...

Simo: Yeah, I agree with you on that point. If it's recreational, then it's better to do it when there's less traffic of all sorts. But, unless they've got a screw loose, who would cycle for fun during peak hour? Surely this pack was a bike bus (a group of cyclists that commute together in a pack for safety reasons). Hey... when does peak hour start in the morning anyway? 8am? 7:30am? Earlier? Later?

 

[Simo]

wow, you have a real roundabout way of saying things dont u (jk) :lol:

where do we vote?

 

[Gonzo]

Whereabouts is the poll. I wanan vote

 

[Ryan]

Kind of on topic / kind of off...
For those of you in Brisvegas, remember a couple of months ago a radio station did a "Peak Hour Race To Work" type thing from Toowong Village to the CBD along Coronation Drive at 8:30 in the morning?
The race was won by a Taxi (because it could use the bus lanes) with a bike about 30 seconds behind (this was a recreational cyclist too, not a "50km/hr along the bike path is fun roadie). Car was about 5 minutes slower than the bike, followed by bus then the city cat.
Moral of the story - riding your bike around the city is a good, fast, healthy way to get from A to B.

Back on topic, SMH are idiots. Whats the point hyping up and inventing public debate on a non-existant issue? Of course cyclists should be on the road, where the hell else are they supposed to be riding? If they're riding in packs, all the better as it is protection for everyone involved in the pack and increases the visibility of everyone to the average motorist.

 

[Techno Destructo]

Vote at www.smh.com.au (Sydney Morning Herald site) or click on the coloured link up in the first post (thanks Ty!)

Ryan: Yeah. Most major newspapers are dodgy at best, but SMH is definitely sliding downwards. I love it when they put up things like "the 100 best of..." and don't say WHO chose the list, or what cred the people (person?) has or anything. But, alas... it does wield public opinion strongly, that paper...

Simo: It's ok. I try to sneak up on people (idea-wise) before getting to the point...

 

[Ryan]

It's sad to see, as I used to hold a lot of respect for the SMH as one of the nations most balanced and authoritative broadsheets. Alas the push for greater circulation has seen their quality decline in the last 18 months as they try more and more to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Gutty]

Sorry Techno but i gotta disagree with a whole bunch of stuff you've said.
I voted "only on weekends" but it was a toss up between that and "outside of peakhour". I'd really just be happy if they stayed off main roads.

Say your a truck drive around sydney, your out there trying to make a living and some guys on bikes(that aren't at work for some reason) block a whole lane on a main road and cause a traffic jam, he's late with his delivery and cops shit off his boss for it, thats not very good for the trucky is it ?! and the whole cause is a bunch of guys having a day off or some shit. I'd back the guy trying to make a living, not the guys that aren't at work for whatever reason.

As for riding to work.....you know we can't all do that. It's silly of you to assume we all can. I live far too far away from work to ride, it takes me 35mins doing 120km/h in my car......you wanna ride that ??

I often get stuck in traffic coming and going from work because of pack cyclists, they block a whole lane on a main highway forcing all cars in that lane to merge into another lane, 90% of drivers can't do this without jumping on their brakes(equelly the drivers fault)......the result is, you guessed it.....a traffic jam. And it pisses me off. I have even been known, in the past, to abuse em and tell em to"get off the road an go find a trail".

This is in no way a cut and dry argument, there are far too many variables to simply say "all the time" or "never".

I'll call it quits at that, i don't want to get into an argument with any of you but felt i had to express my view. I hope you don't all think i'm an ass because of it.

 

[kitakishi]

techno wrote:

Check the ratio of single drivers who could just as easily be riding a bike, with everybody else



I agree with Gutty that this is not practical for the majority.
comments like this are as general as the poll by SMH. I don't fancy riding the 14kms to work to then sit in an office all day without the ability to get a shower when i get here.

The SMH has never been the highest standard of journalism. During the last trail disaster there web site said "the train deraileded" Then a few years ago for the page one headline they spelt pedophile wrong. (1)

Just my 2 yen.

KK

(1) any spelling errors by me are the responsiblity of the SMH

 

[Techno Destructo]

Say your a truck drive around sydney, your out there trying to make a living and some guys on bikes(that aren't at work for some reason) block a whole lane on a main road and cause a traffic jam, he's late with his delivery and cops shit off his boss for it, thats not very good for the trucky is it ?! and the whole cause is a bunch of guys having a day off or some shit. I'd back the guy trying to make a living, not the guys that aren't at work for whatever reason.

So what do you think about the argument that if all the single drivers rode their bikes to work, there would be a lot less cars on the road, therefore less congestion, the passing lane(s) would move a LOT faster, and people who rely on motor vehicles to get their job done would be able to do it a lot easier?

That theory doesn't work now, cause the majority of traffic on the roads are cars. One or two packs won't solve things. We need lots more people to start cycling to make a difference. Like recycling. If just 1% of the population recycles, that isn't going to help anything.

As for riding to work.....you know we can't all do that. It's silly of you to assume we all can. I live far too far away from work to ride, it takes me 35mins doing 120km/h in my car......you wanna ride that ??

You're right. There are a lot of people who live too far from work (IMO that's about 20k, but that's just me...) and there's no decent public transport solutions. These people have to drive. But then, I would go off on another topic of carpooling and so on... But Gutty, if you're doing 120km/h for 35 minutes to get to work, when are you getting held up by cyclists? Sounds like you're moving pretty fast most of the time...

I often get stuck in traffic coming and going from work because of pack cyclists, they block a whole lane on a main highway forcing all cars in that lane to merge into another lane, 90% of drivers can't do this without jumping on their brakes......the result is, you guessed it.....a traffic jam.

It sounds like the main problem lies with bad drivers... BTW... if you're doing 120km/h, how many lanes are there on the road you use? Surely it can't be just two lanes when driving at that speed?

By the way... just so everybody knows where I'm coming from, I live in Queenscliff (Manly, NSW) and I work in Camperdown (in the city). It's 22km, takes me about 55 minutes and the stuff I ride through is the Spit Bridge, Military Road and other major inner-city conjestion points. I own a car, have a licence, pay rego, insurance, etc... I only use the car when I have no other options (such as moving large things, etc...).

People who have to travel farther than 20km to get to work, and don't have decent public transport, I can see their argument for driving. But most of the people around the Sydney area definitely don't have those problems.

And it pisses me off. I have even been known, in the past, to abuse em and tell em to"get off the road an go find a trail".

I guess you don't ride in traffic then, Gutty?

Like I said about the recreational argument before, I agree that some things are better done out of peak period, such as training, but commuting by bicycle is a sensible (and noble) thing to do (at least around my area).

I agree. No hard feelings, Gutty. People can have different opinions, and can voice them.

 

[Techno Destructo]

I don't fancy riding the 14kms to work to then sit in an office all day without the ability to get a shower when i get here.

Ah yes. One of the most popular reasons why people don't commute by bicycle.

Why don't all work places have showers? Could a reason be that people don't ask/pressure their employers to install one? But... why don't they bother asking? Hmmm...... :?

It's the same argument with bike lanes. Why don't we have them everywhere? Why did the bike plan (that took 7 years!) presented by the Sydney City Council SUCK? (It amounted to them spraying bike symbols in the bus lane. Gee. Thanks.) Their excuse was because not enough people asked for it AND there weren't enough people biking to make it worthwhile! (I LOVE that second reason!!! Great logic!!! :roll: )

People don't do anything to change the situation, then use that excuse for not cycling.

We asked for a shower where I work... (in a company of 100, five people asked.) and bang, within a month, we had a nice shower and change area.

Oh, if I ran the government.... :twisted:

 

[Gonzo]

Hey gutty, thats a really bad analogy. Whenever i go riding on main roads the truck drivers are always the most considerate. The other day when i was riding along and the left lane disapeared ttruck drivers always sloed right down to let me. The same could not be said for the majority of cars.

In case your wondering I do ride a roadie as well as my MTB. Roadie is my brothers which i ride mainly for fitness.

For people who say it is too far too ride. A survey was done and the majority of car trips are under 10 mins, therefore easily ridable.