and let's not forget the tax payer's. If you a) want public money, b) be in a representative team, then it seems to follow that you, um are c) representing us. You cannot *not* be a role model.
Speeding champ drunk in crash: court
- Thread starter 749dark
- Start date
thecat
NSWMTB, Central Tableland MBC
it wasn't that long ago that a lawyer had a wine or two with lunch ran over a cyclist on the way home and fled the scene of the crime.
We all bayed for his blood and were outraged at the petty penalty handed out but now we have another guy, a fellow cyclist (a phenomenal cyclist at that) in a similar (if not as serious) incident and we should cut him some slack?
Getting behind the wheel while drunk is not a silly little mistake and I think he is lucky more serious injuries weren't sustained
top_oz_bloke
Likes Dirt
I agree that it's an unfortunate (you might even say unlucky) circumstance he's found himself in, but by my calculations, he was 27 at the time of the accident. At this age I would think he's well and truely capable of making sensible decisions. Many people manage to not drive DUI so I'm really struggling to see why he should receive any sympathy just because he's some sort of semi relevant sports person or because he's young and 'we all make bad decisions' etc.
It's not like I'm hoping the rest of his life is destroyed and he burns in hell either, I just feel kind of neutral.
Speak for yourself mate. If that's something that you're into doing then obviously you're as stupid as Jongeward.
Most people with even a small percentage of decency would stop to assist. It's got nothing with what "head space" the guy was in but more of his character (i.e. lack thereof).
Likewise, never met him but I had HUGE respect for him until this came out in the public.
My company is a major sponsor of Australian athletes and I can tell you that we would NEVER have anyone who is convicted of these serious offenses represent any of our brands.
Sheesh mate, i don't get the impression he's saying he's "into it" as you imply. Rather, he's merely registering the fact that CJ is not in a minority who have been stupid in that way. Unfortunately i can't say I've never gone DUI.
As for leaving the scene of an accident, apparently MR and CJ were staying very close by at some resort, and CJ made a bad split second decision to continue the short distance back there to get help. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but the bloke was drunk, just had the shock of his life and was scared shitless. Me saying this doesn't condone his decision to get tanked, or to then drive a car in that state. Nor do I think he should be excused for fleeing the scene. But I'd hold off on concluding that CJ is a prick for fleeing the scene. The alcohol and massive sudden stress were obviously very unusual factors influenceing that bad decision.
Now I'm confussed with CA, they stopped him going to China because of the "charges", now that he's been found "guilty" there letting him compete???
I think what he has done does deserve the punishment of being dumped from the world champs, then let the court hand down its punshment and when he has served that, it should be the end of it. His sponsers need to make their own decision on what to do with him, I personally would be cutting him off until he has served whatever punichment he is given and returns to the sport and see if he is deserving of sponsership based on results like ever other new athlete.
All his past results should be left as they are as it was only last week he was found guilty, if CA/MTBA had of suspended him from competing then the results would never have occured. They chose to allow him to compete so all results should stand until CA/MTBA take action post the guilty verdict.
I think what he has done does deserve the punishment of being dumped from the world champs, then let the court hand down its punshment and when he has served that, it should be the end of it. His sponsers need to make their own decision on what to do with him, I personally would be cutting him off until he has served whatever punichment he is given and returns to the sport and see if he is deserving of sponsership based on results like ever other new athlete.
All his past results should be left as they are as it was only last week he was found guilty, if CA/MTBA had of suspended him from competing then the results would never have occured. They chose to allow him to compete so all results should stand until CA/MTBA take action post the guilty verdict.
alchemist
Manly Warringah MTB Club
CA originally nominated him for Beijing it was the AOC that didn't let him go.
DaGonz
Eats Squid
You mean you've *Never* had a few beers, thought you were ok, got in the car and thought "hmmm maybe not..." or even just how tired you are. You've never been driving on a country road posted speed or not and gone "where is that turn off" "oh... bit fast for that corner", "oh shit kangaroo...." "oh shit another car..."
What he did was blatently stupid, no doubting that, he's been convicted of it. I've never had much less a parking ticket yet I've still made some pretty stupid mistakes driving a car, changing the CD player only to have a kangaroo pop out or start driving to realise no I really am too tired to be doing this.
I also think I'm a pretty decent guy, would like to think yes if I hit someone I'd pull over, but you know, I never have, so I've never been in the position where I've had to comprehend or deal with panic/fear/completely unrational thought. God knows what I would do if I was scared shitless 'cause well... I've never been there. I hit a kangaroo once and had to pull over, at least initially to calm down and comprehend what had just happened... I can only imagine the thought of hitting a person would be worse!
Has he done something stupid? yes. Should he be punished? yes... But this "Burn Him!!" Mob mentality really gets to me. Especially since I doubt any one of us are perfect either 'nor been in a position where we could comfortably say "I would have..." More over, I bet hardly any of us truly know the guy or were there that night to be able to truly judge what was going on or what sort of person he is.
To comment on Flynny's coment, sure we scorned that lawyer guy too, but how much scorn did the "hell ride" get when they hit that pedestrian in melbourne?
...anyway.
*shrug*
Cheers
Gonz
Here here. I really can't think of any good reasons for drink drivers to be cut some slack. Definitely can't think of any drunk, speeding drivers who leave the scene of the accident who need to be cut some slack. Sorry DaGonz + sympathisers: "lots of people do it so ease up" is a crap attitude to have towards something that's killed thousands of Australians.
ALso, what's with calling it "silly" behaviour? Silly is doing an Enduro on SS .. or riding any MTB race fixed. Silly is doing a nude lap. Silly is agreeing to go in a 100km race after only a couple of hours a week of social rides all winter. Drink driving is farkin idiotic.
Presumably we won't get any kind of apology from Jongewaard until after all avenues for appeal are exhausted, so until then I don't see why he should get the benefit of any of my money as a taxpayer, or potential purchaser of his sponsors' products.
DaGonz
Eats Squid
You mean you're judging someone before their legal avenues are exhausted? he could still yet be "innocent"? what sort of person does that make you? Why stop there, I mean by that rational, there was no innocent till proven guilty here. Fugg it, Burn him after all, why have we waited so long?
Cheers
Gonz
OK, so you just replied while I was composing my last post. Seems you have toughened your words against drink driving but I'll leave my post unadulterated.
I am personally disappointed that the rider couldn't be charged with something like culpable driving. IANAL but I imagined at the time that manslaughter or "reckless endangerment" (is that a USA thing?) would have been a suitable charge that could be made to stick.
Also, thought I'd point out your incorrect generalisation - the "hell ride" didn't hit a pedestrian. Some of the participants had already stopped for the pedestrian/lights, and the single rider who collided with the pedestrian had come around stopped/stopping riders.
Um, lots .. or was I just reading different media and fora to you?
I am personally disappointed that the rider couldn't be charged with something like culpable driving. IANAL but I imagined at the time that manslaughter or "reckless endangerment" (is that a USA thing?) would have been a suitable charge that could be made to stick.
Also, thought I'd point out your incorrect generalisation - the "hell ride" didn't hit a pedestrian. Some of the participants had already stopped for the pedestrian/lights, and the single rider who collided with the pedestrian had come around stopped/stopping riders.
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If you call withholding sponsorship dollars "judging" then, yes, I guess so.
Again, IANAL but I'll think you'll find since he has been found guilty, he cannot still be innocent. He can have his charges overturned, which I don't think is the same. Maybe a royal or other Pardon would perhaps let him call himself innocent? I think any appeals will likely be against the severity of his sentencing... perhaps you already knew this and were being facetious?
One who accepts the decision of the district court judge? A Moral person, even? You tell me. You seem to want to.
1) He's been found guilty. 2) Who said anything about burning? I think you need a lie down.
PS: It's rationale.
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Nobody is saying he needs to be cut any slack. He had his day in court and will be sentenced appropriately. No issue there. But there seems to be some bizarre idea out there that criminal offenses cannot be adequately dealt with by the legal system, and that various additional punishments are necessary. The way i see it, if his sentence in some way denies him the opportunity to compete for a while, then he won't compete for a while. In any case, once the justice system has dealt with him, he is dealt with. Some talk, however, as though all sponsors, sports organisations and regulatory bodies are MORALLY obligated to deny the bloke any & every service of a citizen whom the justice system may deem fit for society, as though they were an appendage of the justice system. On what authority?
And for what cause? For the protection of young people? C'mon! Sponsors do not condone unlawful behaviour any more than they denounce charity. Imagine if that were the case. You'd have, for example, makers of dowhill body armour queuing to sign up Old Matey because he just made the Honour Roll at Rotary! No, cycling sponsors tend to target people with cycling talent because that will make them money. Another factor that will help them sell product is a rider's charisma, or public impression. Sponsors will ditch CJ only if they think he won't be financially viable. If they ditch him for other reasons, that's their prerogative. But there would certainly be no sense of 'ought' in their dilemma.If an organisation would be financially jeopardised by the endorsement of an individual based on public perception, then i suppose there is a possible case for discriminating against the individual. But no more so than the individual's right to be treated without discrimination.
The issue of representing one's country is interesting. For no-one wishes our athletes to portray the nation as a pack of arseholes. But what is an athlete representing? Not a country's political views, eating habits, or anything else but its sporting prowess. Of course there is the understanding that the athlete is under the law of the land. But that's the role of our legal system. Many no doubt are opposed to an athlete with a past conviction competing for their country. And that's fine. But to get up and say they OUGHT not be allowed to compete is baseless, and is nothing more than saying they don't want him to be allowed...
(Well, yeah)
...And to say he owes the sporting community or society an apology if he wants to compete again is plain stupid. What of the thousands of people who are receiving welfare while looking for work? Wonder if any of them has a past conviction. Hmmm.
bike182mtb
Likes Dirt
does any one know what happen today ?.a part of me hopes he wont go for a holiday in the big house .but the other part thinks if it was just another person who hit a bike rider and did a runner then i would be wanting some jail time.so if its good for [some other person] then its good for him.
Delmar
Likes Dirt
Not a comment on the rights and wrongs or the justice of this sentence, but... it's just a final sad note. In fact, I guess the effects will roll on for years yet, so not the final note. Paul Kelly once sang a song 'If I could start today again'. I bet these guys wish that for that day.
Hope everything starts looking up from here for all concerned.
Hope everything starts looking up from here for all concerned.
Slowman
Likes Dirt
You are of course referring to Eugene McGee, lawyer and former prosecutor, from Adelaide. There are quite a few differences to this case. McGee killed the cyclist for one, and second he left the scene of the accident in a cold and calculated move to avoid being breath tested and then showed up lawyered up, at a time and with an explanation that would avoid him facing more serious charges.
By contrast CJ, did leave the scene at first but returned shortly afterward. His actions were spontaneous and don't appear to be calculated in any way to avoid facing up to what he did. Since then he has had many opportunities to travel and still came back to face these charges in court.
The "vigilantes" on here appear to imagine it was all one sided, something which the judge made a point of mentioning, both were at fault...
"
I think that'll be the last thing on his mind. Me might become someone's indoor trainer.