stay safe and stop on the red

[user name]

Any Cyclist running reds pisses me off big time!

I too seem to see more roadies doing it than other types of cyclists.

Outside the LBS one day i yelled at a fella (on a roadie) for doing it and he seemed shocked and confused as to what i was talking about...

Perhaps they think their freshly shaven legs & lycra will simply reflect the cars?

 

[peachy]

What you're essentially saying is that it's OK to run a red light as long as you deem it safe to do so. I'm pretty sure everyone who has been injured or killed as a result of running a red light, including the girl mentioned in the original post, used that same logic at the time.

You're completely removing circumstance and variables from the equation, there is no such thing in this situation as black or white, there is too much grey area. Plus my point was about you stating the problem was with people using their discretion when it comes to the law. I don't find it unreasonable for me to use my discretion to jaywalk at 3:00AM in the morning if there are visibly no cars, nor do I find it dangerous, given my skill and experience on a bike, to cautiously pass through a red-light on a one way street when there are no cars in front, behind, nor any pedestrians in site. Am I a bad pedestrian because I jay-walked, no, am I a bad cyclist, I certainly don't think so.

Why the girl ran the red light is inconclusive, no one knows the real reason as to "why" she ran a red light, but saying she ran it because she used the same logic as me has about the same weight as me saying she ran the red-light because she feared a zombie horde was chasing her. There is no visible evidence on either of these statements (although one is clearly more realistic than the other... which is the zombies....)

If you've ever jay-walked, ridden your bike on a footpath, ridden your bike and not walked your bike across a zebra crossing, ridden without at least one hand on the handlebars, ridden on the road when there is a designated bike path (all of which are illegal in Victoria) or if you've ever intentionally sped on country roads or during emergencies, than based on your argument on discretion you're a hypocrite.


disclaimer: there are no emoticons I know of that could portray that I say all this as a friendly debate without any kind of animosity, however, if that emoticon were to exist, i would use it about here ---->

 

[pharmaboy]

Well said peachy. I don't run red lights just because of the example setting reason. But I have taken off in front of cars on a red before it turns green in order to cross lanes safely when I have to make a right hand turn. I do it because its safest for me and I just hope that car drivers see it and can understand its about safety ( changing lanes on a bike is bloody dangerous IMO )

 

[flamshmizer]

I just think it's selfish to run reds on a busy intersection, it's well known that motorists hate cyclists doing it so why not try to do the right thing and give cyclist a good name.

There's a not so legal track in town with a house at the top of it, and that house has a pool. I saw in the bushes about 100m from the house an inflatable pool floaty thinger, and took it back to the house to give it to the owners. I made sure I was wearing my helmet and gloves so he knew I was a MTBer, and now if the council ever asks what he thinks of the track he might have good things to say about us.

When I got back to the other bloke I was riding with he commented "Mountain bikers 1, roadies, zero."

Take every oportunity to make cyclists look good, it will likely never trump the stupidity of the few but we can try.

 

[akashra]

It's a Red Light people, not a PhD in theoretical mathematics. It astounds me that people think they've above what this means. Stop on the goddamn light.

The whole "5am in the morning" outlier scenario is exactly that - it's an outlier. You still stop at it like any other light. If after an extended period it's clearly not recognising that you're there, then sure, you have to react to that, but let's not treat it like it's some kind of standard situation like people treat cyclists running red lights to be a standard situation.

 

[redbruce]

It's a Red Light people, not a PhD in theoretical mathematics. It astounds me that people think they've above what this means. Stop on the goddamn light.

The whole "5am in the morning" outlier scenario is exactly that - it's an outlier. You still stop at it like any other light. If after an extended period it's clearly not recognising that you're there, then sure, you have to react to that, but let's not treat it like it's some kind of standard situation like people treat cyclists running red lights to be a standard situation.

+1 Spot on.

 

[Mtb1speed]

It's a Red Light people, not a PhD in theoretical mathematics. It astounds me that people think they've above what this means. Stop on the goddamn light.

The whole "5am in the morning" outlier scenario is exactly that - it's an outlier. You still stop at it like any other light. If after an extended period it's clearly not recognising that you're there, then sure, you have to react to that, but let's not treat it like it's some kind of standard situation like people treat cyclists running red lights to be a standard situation.

Another +1 for this one.

Oh and @ user name, grow up. I say this for the following reasons:

1. Learn to use a sign up screen and get a real user name; and
2. Of course you are going to see more roadies do it, there are way more of them on the road.

What's the go guys, is bashing the roadies really becoming that much of a sport on this site. Funny thing is most of the top MTBers we all look up too including a lot of the 'all mountain', 'free ride' and even 'down hill' guys spend more time on their road bikes than they do on thier MTBs.

Oh and last rant - the last few road bike forums I frequented I never once saw any MTB bashing - funny that, and we consider ourselves so much better than them.

 

[^dave]

You're completely removing circumstance and variables from the equation

Yup. When it comes to red lights, that's pretty much the idea. Are you comfortable with the fact that when approaching a green light at an intersection, other road users are deciding whether or not it's safe to run their red? I'm not for a second saying your discretion is bad. I'm saying that if we want the complete morons to stop using their discretion, we have to also.

disclaimer: there are no emoticons I know of that could portray that I say all this as a friendly debate without any kind of animosity, however, if that emoticon were to exist, i would use it about here ---->

Likewise

 

[tasty.dirt74]

Cmon, we all know that a red light is a perfect opportunity to practise trackstands....:target:

 

[Art Vanderlay]

Red = stop or die
Orange = try to stop, you could die
Green = go, but check you are not going to die

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Another +1 for this one.

Oh and @ user name, grow up. I say this for the following reasons:

1. Learn to use a sign up screen and get a real user name; and
2. Of course you are going to see more roadies do it, there are way more of them on the road.

What's the go guys, is bashing the roadies really becoming that much of a sport on this site. Funny thing is most of the top MTBers we all look up too including a lot of the 'all mountain', 'free ride' and even 'down hill' guys spend more time on their road bikes than they do on thier MTBs.

Oh and last rant - the last few road bike forums I frequented I never once saw any MTB bashing - funny that, and we consider ourselves so much better than them.

Nothing wrong with a bit of roadie bashing, why don't they have a crack at mountain bikers? probably because we are a lot more laid back and friendly?

I have spent a lot more time commuting and road cycling in recent years, never had a single other road rider ask if i need help when broken down, same scenario with MTB, every rider asks. To me that is a strong reflection on the difference between our cycling communities. Road cycling is all attitude and it reflects on their behaviour to other road uses.

Spend a weekend at buller riding the DH tracks, most riders will slow down and yellout 'is everything ok' if your on the side of the track.
Spend a weekend at Lysterfield lake, the roadies on their MTB's won't even give you a nod, let alone a 'is everything ok, or move across on a two way track.

 

[wkkie]

......, there is no such thing in this situation as black or white, there is too much grey area......

Why is there grey? It's simple, if it's red, stop. If everyone stops, then there are no issues. When people try to make their own choices to try to determine if it's safe or not, that's when people start getting hit. People make mistakes, bad choices, make bad judgements, but if they stop at the red, it takes out all the grey area.

 

[Shredden]

Heres one: We have a highway that goes from where I live, to Geelong which is about 15kms away. There is a 4 lane highway with a strip of grass and trees in the middle. What the FUCK is with roadies riding at ~30kmh 3 abreast, taking up all the bike lane and 1/2 - 3/4 of the left hand lane on a 100kmh rural highway? Thats just asking to be facially raped by a truck.

 

[The Duckmeister]

There is a fundamental difference between the manners in which cyclists & drivers run red lights. More often than not, cyclists will treat the red light rather like a stop or give way sign; slow, observe the traffic, then proceed. When motorists run reds it's simply "getthephuqouttamywayI'mcomingthrough" as they bomb in well after the light has gone through the amber.

I bleive there is some scope for the rules regarding red lights to be altered to take into account the relatively small road space taken up by a bike, as well as their inherent agility relative to other vehicles. An obvious change that would safely legalise red light running would be allowing "left turn on red", where the light is treated as a stop or give way sign - a rider intending to turn left & facing a light stops, assesses the traffic flow through the intersection and proceeds when it's safe to do so. If anything, it could potentially be safer than the existing scenario, where cyclists can be flattened by drivers also turning left in the same piece of road. But that's too logical for the authorities to consider....

By the way, I stop at red lights, 'cos dem's de rules, and I think helmet laws are stupid, because they don't address where that actual danger lies.

 

[driftking]

Let's just clarify that while she ran the red it might not have been on purpose, it's quite possible she made a mistake or missed the light. On to the root issue though, I'd think red light running is ok when it's safe, the question is, what constitutes safe, id think treat it as a give way or stop sign.

 

[your_neighbour]

I see all sorts run red lights on my commute through inner Melbourne every morning and arvo, not just bad boy roadies, though, it is more fun to hang crap on then!

What’s the rule in Vic when the pedestrian signal goes green before the traffic green and there is a dedicated bike lane, most other riders take off, even though there is a 10 sec delay before the traffic signal goes green.
I always wait for the traffic green then go. Am I waiting like a douche?

 

[takai]

Roughly 6-7/10 of the people i see regularly running red lights on my 6km daily commute in Melbourne (down Sydney Rd) tend to be your average commuters or fixie kids. Those lycra'd up on roadies tend to stop on that commute, while quite a few on MTBs just take to the footpaths.

Beach Rd is another matter entirely though, had a guy yell at me once for stopping at a red and getting in his way.

Agreed on checking whether people are ok though, most roadies just roll on past without even considering it. MTBers stop regularly.

 

[frensham]

Wouldn't it be good if we stopped labelling (and criticising) each other based on what we wear or ride? I commute on either a road bike, 20 year old MTB or a modern MTB. I wear the same clothes for each bike, namely lycra shorts and a 'non-logo' top. So, if I take on board what I read above, I am either roadie scum/lycra lout who doesn't give a toss about risking his life or inconveniencing a motorist, regular commuter or really, really cool MTB guy who would never think of breaking the road rules. Which am I? At what point does my mentality change? When I get dressed or when I get on the bike?

and this...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3311182.ece

 

[harmonix1234]

I had to run a red light yesterday to save myself from injury.
I had a road rager coming at me and all I could do was check for a gap in the traffic and run the light to save myself from getting my head smacked in.
Pretty scary stuff.

I honestly think it is the first time I have ever run a light.
Middle of busy CBD 'getting to work' traffic.
I felt terrible for all the cars that would have seen me do the deed.

 

[cleeshoy]

What’s the rule in Vic when the pedestrian signal goes green before the traffic green and there is a dedicated bike lane, most other riders take off, even though there is a 10 sec delay before the traffic signal goes green.
I always wait for the traffic green then go. Am I waiting like a douche?

I have always taken the line of the Bike lane is on the road therefore bikes are bound by the road traffic lights. Like you I am waiting like a douche