Stiff Duelies

[adaib]

Hi,
I just got told by my physio that I either need to buy a larger bike frame or stop riding my bike. Nice little surprise when I'm trying to still pay off my car eh?...

I currently ride a hardtail, and I really like the way it handles. For my next bike though, I want to upgrade to a dualie, as I do alot of Enduros. I've test ridden a few bikes and talked to a couple of bike shops and decided I should get racing dualie, something with about 100mm of travel and is still nice and light.

However, I really like the way the hardtails ride and handle over most terrain and I want a dualie that is nice and firm in the rear and whilst still maintianing the slight comfort of the rear shock.
For example. I test rode the Cannondale Scalpel. It has a nice and firm rear shock, whist still providing some comfort. I also test rode a Giant Anthem and found it to be much softer and plusher. (I checked that the pressure in the shocks were the same) The Cannondale seemed to feel almost like a hardtail, except with a bit of padding in the rear for my back. Some riders may see the softer feel in the Anthem as a benifit, so I'm not degrading it at all, but its just not for me.

What I'm getting at is, how many other bikes have this stiff frame design and firm suspension feel that I've described, because like to have a bit more choice than just the Cannondale?

 

[BM Epic]

Specialized Epic, Scott Spark...

 

[BLKFOZ]

Just up the pressure in the rear shock to get a stiffer ride - but then you won't be using the full travel of the shock.

 

[ACNRS]

the anthem scalpel have totally different suspension designs so how you would set the shock up would be different, you wouldnt run the same amount of air on both bikes, and any suspension can, usually, be as hard or as soft as u want

 

[harmonix1234]

What's the budget?

Every one that has one of these raves about them.

Pivot Mach-4

 

[Plankosaurus]

have as much of a look at the shock that being used aswell as all the different platform options make a big difference too. some have full lock outs, some have partial lockout, some have a set and forget system etc... its a bit overwhelming really, but rest assured that whatever frame you end up getting, you should be able to change the setup to suit your riding as you see fit.

also, see if you can find a shop that will let you try a bike somewhere a bit more fun than their carpark, might make all the difference with your purchase.

 

[Shaman]

However, I really like the way the hardtails ride and handle over most terrain and I want a dualie that is nice and firm in the rear and whilst still maintianing the slight comfort of the rear shock.

What I'm getting at is, how many other bikes have this stiff frame design and firm suspension feel that I've described, because like to have a bit more choice than just the Cannondale?

Merida 96 could be the ticket. Perhaps not the most advanced suspension pllatform in the world but similar in concept to the scalpel so no surprises that it handles similarly.

Simple, light, stiff...exactly what you are after in other words.

 

[riderideride]

Pivot!!! :d

 

[Australia]

I test rode a Pivot Mach 4 - there is nothing stiffer on the market - but your XCO background means you'll probably be lusting after something lighter. I am a great fan of the Specialized Epic for this sort of thing because of the Brain shock (it works)

Try whacking some extra air in the Anthem and dial up the propedal - I run mine on Stiff Propedal all the time and it feels nice and stiff (but my background is on slightly longer suspension bikes)

I came across a deal too good to refuse on a carbon Anthem so decided to go that way. But if you are tossing up b/w the Anthem, Mach 4, Epic, Scalpel and Spark there is NO bad option (I speak for the first 3 from experiance and the later two by reputation).

Some people adore the Merida 96 - I didn't - geometry felt a bit funny to me - on the other hand, Shaman loves his to bits - so I guess its obviously a personal preference thing.

 

[jathanas]

+1 on the Epic. Look no further if stiff and light are key for you.

142mm rear axle this year.

Looks good too.

 

[Plankosaurus]

apparently the brain system on the specialized is about as close to a hardtail as your likely to get (as told to me by a salesman). the way it was explained is that it only allows travel when actually dropping the rear due to the way the inertia valve works. not really my cup of tea because i actually enjoy a little plushness while climbing rough terrain or failing to hop a log, but might be right up your alley if you want something that acts like a hardtail unless REALLY needed.

 

[ac_DHer]

Merida 96 could be the ticket. Perhaps not the most advanced suspension pllatform in the world but similar in concept to the scalpel so no surprises that it handles similarly.

Simple, light, stiff...exactly what you are after in other words.

Second that, Jason English seems to be pretty happen with his (nuff said)

 

[Nerf Herder]

Have you tried a layback seat post, raising the bars (via spacers or raiser bar) and longer stem ... obviously not as nice as getting a new rig ... with suspension (I would have thought the hardtail would have been more damaging then a small-ish frame) ... but given your car payment comments, and your love of taking things firm up the rear ... then it maybe more economical.

BOT: I've always wanted an Intense and the spider looks pretty handy.

I liked the merida ...maybe with wider bars

 

[Australia]

apparently the brain system on the specialized is about as close to a hardtail as your likely to get (as told to me by a salesman). the way it was explained is that it only allows travel when actually dropping the rear due to the way the inertia valve works. not really my cup of tea because i actually enjoy a little plushness while climbing rough terrain or failing to hop a log, but might be right up your alley if you want something that acts like a hardtail unless REALLY needed.

I'll vouch for it working - I was given an extended test ride on one and it was very nice

 

[adaib]

and your love of taking things firm up the rear ...

Oh damm you went there.... I was waiting for it

My frame size is a medium, I'm 6 foot. So the frame is definatly too small.
Do you think I could alter the geometry of my current bike to give me a bike thats not breaking my back as much to bide me some time to find some doe? If so, how would i go about doing it? I currently have it all set up the maximal levels. As in, max spacers, and the seat is as far backwards on its rails. I also recently fiddled with the seat angle which helped alot, its currently in a flat level state. Would i want to increase cockpit space or decrease? IOn my ind, increasing would mean more bending over, hence more streching off the back and decreasing would mean less being over, except more weight on the front wheel, which could result in more serious injuries. Am I right?

 

[adaib]

Oh, and thanks for everyones suggestions
I'm writing them down, and adding plus ones for eveyone who plus ones them. then I'll go test riding. YAY for being a gap year student with heaps of free time!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nerf Herder]

Hard one cause your a big fella ... I'm 5.7ish and I'm a cusp of small and medium ... preferring the medium with shorter controls (I couldn't write cockpit ... sniggers)

You might be the same between large and medium ... sorry completely guessing.

What stem length are you using now ... 110mm if so then ignore me and move along with your Intense Spider purchase

Playing a little bit of Dr House MD ... (I'm an accountant so close enough).
I would have thought with back problems (presuming lower back) ... you needed to be more upright. Would a larger frame do that for you ? ... I would have thought it would just stretch you out more.

So, on those lines ... maybe if you have spacers on top of your current stem, you could maybe swap them and put it under the stem, then that might make a bit of difference (will change your steering, but should be marginal and you'll adapt).

A shorter stem will get you more upright too ... but that may cause shoulder and upper back probs

again ... all this is about being a tight arse, and presumes your on the cusp of sizes ... which I have no idea about.

Maybe have a chat with your guy again and ask what specifically will a large frame do for your back (ie, is it to move your arms further out to stretch and straighten your spine / back) is it to rotate your pelvis, or maybe supposedly make you more upright.

Sorry for being a postwhore ... I just thought I'd throw it out there just in case, coz a large intense spider won't fit me anyway so why bother getting one.

good luck dood.

 

[tasty.dirt74]

I realise that you have spoken primarily about a duallie, but have you considered a hardtail in Ti , or 29ers ?

I have not riden either styles, but from what people have ben saying about either type of bike, it might be worthwhile at least considering them.. maybe a Ti 29er ?

I ride a 11 anthem, and it can be set to be quite firm under pedalling, yet is active over obstacles,climbing and descending. Propedal will firm it up considerably, even more so if you run a few more PSI than recommended in the shock.

The Cannondales ,hmmmm , not my cup of tea, but with only 80mm(?) travel in the back, it would have to be fairly firm !??

What about a softail, which relies on chainstay flex for the travel ?? There are a few options if you think outside of the main brands,( Giant , Spec, Trek, et al..) Euro brands... Focus, there are quite a few ..bit too drunk to find links !

 

[thecat]

A mistake a lot of hardtail riders make when switching to dual is having the rear shock to hard.



By having the rear too firm you get all the disadvantages of a dual suspension (heavier, more maintenance) and none of the advantages (Rear wheel tracking the ground and maintaining traction over rough terrain, soaking up bumps big and small, absorbing cornering forces and rebounding out the other side)


The dually is going to be different to what you are use to. That's the point.

 

[adaib]

I just thought I'd throw it out there just in case,

Thanks for your help

I realise that you have spoken primarily about a duallie, but have you considered a hardtail in Ti , or 29ers ?

I ride a 11 anthem, and it can be set to be quite firm under pedalling, yet is active over obstacles,climbing and descending. Propedal will firm it up considerably, even more so if you run a few more PSI than recommended in the shock.

What about a softail, which relies on chainstay flex for the travel ?? There are a few options if you think outside of the main brands,( Giant , Spec, Trek, et al..) Euro brands... Focus, there are quite a few ..bit too drunk to find links !

I've heard that some hardtails made form diffeent materials do help with vibration absorbtion, But I don't know if thats enough in an enduro. I think having the rear shock would be more forgiving when i get fatigued and allow me to focus on putting the power out without my back playing up?
The cannondale does have a flexy stay design. I like the idea, nice and light but still stiff due to the pivotless design. I'll look into it a little more. the problem with Euro bikes, is that their often expensive to buy and then also maintain, with limited parts and stock coming to Aus.

A mistake a lot of hardtail riders make when switching to dual is having the rear shock to hard.

yeah I can imagine that. i'd just have to talk to my lbs and get them to set it up for me and give me advice. I just want to try and reduce pedal bob whilst riging whilst still maintaining better traction in the climbs than the hardtail. I think thats another good reason to get a dually, as when i get tired, sometimes my riding tehcnique gets poor, perhaps the dually will be more forgiving. Does this happen to everyone?