Suspension DW Link vs Split pivot Vs maestro

[SF Trailboy]

Ok I'm pretty new to this and used to own a Merida 120mm 26" dually. I'm now a hardtail 29" guy - didn't love the bouncing around I really only ride xc.

My question is has anyone owned all three types in the title or ridden them all?

Marketing bulshit aside which one is best and why?

I'm looking to perhaps go back to a dually for that little bit more comfort and I'm never going to be an xc whippet I'm around 100kg mark, but would like to know which is the most efficient for pedalling.

I current ride a specialized but for some reason don't like the idea of the whole brain thing....

I'm looking at pivot 429, salsa spearfish, or anthem. All 29ers and yes I know the anthem represents the best value buy. 100mm travel I think is more than enough for what I do.

 

[ming]

Look through the XC forum for discussions on these comparisons.
I found the DW link to be very efficient without needing pro pedal, and I prefer the geometry of the 429 to the Anthem.
Geometry / handling is a personal thing, so really try to get test rides.

 

[T-Rex]

None of the above

Own or have owned bikes with those, and more.

The best rear suspension for pedalling by far is four bar ie Specialized. Without the "Brain."

IMO.

 

[SF Trailboy]

Own or have owned bikes with those, and more.

The best rear suspension for pedalling by far is four bar ie Specialized. Without the "Brain."

IMO.

So are we talking a camber here?

Given I'm not looking for the travel of a stumpy and you have said no brain, or do I do the harsh epic with my own shock?

 

[bell.cameron]

Id never buy anything but VPP again. Maestro loves blowing through the travel as well, has its positives on longer travel bikes, but after riding my Santacruz, would never buy anything less.

 

[will2]

In my eyes all those suspension designs are very similar if not the same. Should I wear glasses?
How about a good single pivot? Santa Cruz Superlight? Morewood Zula?
Santa Cruz VPP is choice! what about a Blur xc?

 

[T-Rex]

So are we talking a camber here?

Given I'm not looking for the travel of a stumpy and you have said no brain, or do I do the harsh epic with my own shock?

Sorry, I'm not up to date on the current models, don't currently have a Spec in the Shed. But at a quick glance on the Spec web site, I'd go for the Camber if I were you.

 

[rearviewmirror]

I'm not a VPP fan, I only buy Horst Link, 4-bar, or DW-Link.

 

[Knuckles]

This is a bit like a What Saddle Won't Mash My Goolies thread. The answer will be subjective and biased to an individual's personal preference. Not to mention platform suspension making most modern setups more or less similar performing.

 

[SF Trailboy]

This is a bit like a What Saddle Won't Mash My Goolies thread. The answer will be subjective and biased to an individual's personal preference. Not to mention platform suspension making most modern setups more or less similar performing.

Ok so I need to ride more demo days or get demo bikes. I unfortunately am a little remote so demoing isn't easy. I am trying to narrow down my options and reduce my potential confusions as I obviously won't be able to ride these bikes back to back. Hence my question which do you prefer and why?

So far there has been a lot of opinion as to which but not much why. The why was what I was hoping for - I understand it will differ from person to person but I am sick of reading marketing hype or articles in magazines and online which seem to have a touch of bias in relation to advertising $$$ IMO.

I'm not asking which is best for me but which one people like and why?

 

[Ky1e]

Owned an anthem advanced 29 for 12 months and now own a mach 429 carbon.. Happy to go on record and say that the anthem climbs as good as the pivot, but the pivot wins by a good margin when the trail heads downwards.

 

[pink poodle]

Get something based around 'parrallel linkages' (eg SC vpp, DW link, Giant maestro, canfield Bros). Why? In a short travel bike you will experience plenty of chatter and hooking on the small and square bumps (eg rocks and tree roots). It is uncomfortable! Most of the parallel linkage frames have a degree of rearward movement in their axle that allows the wheel to roll over such bumps better. A specialized influenced set up would be my next pick. The axle is attached to the seat stay not chain stay, allowing a similar wheel path. I avoid anything where the axle is mounted from the chain stay, including single pivots, as the suspension provides a rough ride over bumps. I rode single pivots for years, then one day realised they sucked.

So get the dw and be a happy man.

 

[4dabush]

FWIT I've had a bit of a play on a number of demo bikes recently and the Camber (base model with X5 drivetrain and tektro brakes) was very impressive...it is a pretty firm rear suspension and climbed better than similiar carbon competitors almost double the price. I'm no expert by a long shot - and not much of a climber, but I spent time setting the rebound and sag on all the demos, and adjusting bars, stems and spacers to make the cockpits feel right. I was trying to be pretty fair on the comparisons. Whats more, my normal ride is a 6inch 650B and pointing downhill and on rough stuff, the Camber was very fast and confident, giving almost nothing away to the long travel bike. Some of my friends are on Epics...bit racier thats all? But for general fun and efficiency the Camber or Camber EVO would be a great pick...at 100kgs, maybe the EVO as it has 10mm more travel and might be a bit more forgiving. The 2015 models appear to be likely to arrive with Shimano brakes over Formula/Tektro on 2014 - not that there is many Cambers left!
If you can get on a demo...thats what I would try to do - alternatively, google all the reviews you can on various bikes.

 

[The Duckmeister]

The shock fitted in the bike can have quite an effect too. My regular ride is a Giant Anthem with Fox RP2 shock, but I've ridden the same thing with a Rock Shox Monarch and it's completely different. The general consensus I've come across from a combination of my own and customers' feedback is that Fox shocks have the suppleness to work well for lighter weight riders, but suffer with being too soft for heavier riders, while Rock Shox are the opposite; great for the heavies, but too stiff & unresponsive for lighter riders.

 

[wavike]

Plus one for the camber. I've only ridden splesh 29er test bikes, but the camber was the best ride for me. Rode up the first hill thinking it was a single ring. Realised it was double at the top, so going up in 38T instead of 22t on my usual 26er ride - I'd say it climbs well without much bob (probably used the propedal though).

 

[brutasauras]

Hi mate download a copy of the program linkage and then have a read of path analysis by Ken Sasaki. Then read the theory section on the itrack suspension web site, which gives very simple explanations of anti squat, anti rise etc. This should equip you with the tools you need to make a decision on how much chain torque you want under acceleration and how well the shock handles velocity changes decides bump performance, due to axle path being pretty much the same regardless of mechanical design. Or you can collect anecdotal evidence from individuals conscious part of their brain, which is great for bringing in prejudices and way to slow to react to even ride a bike. :wave:

 

[Shadow Puppet]

Own or have owned bikes with those, and more.

The best rear suspension for pedalling by far is four bar ie Specialized. Without the "Brain."

IMO.

Having had a Stumpjumper FSR (4bar) , Lapierre Zesty (4Bar) and a Giant Trance (Maestro) I would say the Giant is the best pedaling bike. Saying that, I'd happily go back to a 4 bar should a bike come up that I really wanted as the differences were not night and day.

Id never buy anything but VPP again. Maestro loves blowing through the travel as well, has its positives on longer travel bikes, but after riding my Santacruz, would never buy anything less.

Maybe it's the way yours was set up but my Trance doesn't blow through its travel at all.

This is a bit like a What Saddle Won't Mash My Goolies thread. The answer will be subjective and biased to an individual's personal preference. Not to mention platform suspension making most modern setups more or less similar performing.

Exactly, there are so many variables in suspension setup, shock type etc etc that it's almost impossible to say any of these well proven designs is better than the other. Test ride as many bikes as you can and make sure the shop sets up the suspension for your weight otherwise the test ride is useless. The VPP, 4 bar, Maestro and DW link are all great designs (and extremely similar) that you really cant go wrong with any of them.

 

[Big JD]

trust me Im a scientist paid by a bike LTD I can make any sheetsheet look impressive

yes there is lots of 'scientific mumbo jumbo' that will tell you what should work the best. At the end of the day- mere mortals dont really find much variance these days. Most suspension systems are fine especially with modern shocks. Where I personally find a difference is in the way certain systems handle my heft- 100kgs of pure funk. Also at 6.5 I need a very large bike and stiffness plays an issue. DW works for me better than the other systems but not all DW link bikes are the same in stiffness- Pivots, Turner are great but Ibis were not as stiff for me (perhaps that has changed in resent years). A DW with a cane creek coil was simply the best setup I ever rode. Traditionally suspesion would wallow and blow through its travel with correct pressure set up for proper sag or I would need too much pressure to stop the drive and then I wouldnt get the right sag and small bumb sensativity. I have found that I am able to set up my DW bikes to handle my heft easier than VPP and Horst. I have usually got an aftermarket shock tune regardless just to increase the compression range to suit my heft.

But to be brutally honest- I have had great setup with a single pivot 575 Yeti and Orange. There aint much in it for the average sized weekend warrior. I cant blame my suspension design for lack of podium appearances.

 

[slippy]

Have owned Horst link, faux-bar, single pivot, VPP, DW link, Maestro.

The winner IMO is DW link, especially if you want comfort. With the compression damping turned right down, a DW link floats over small to medium stuff like a magic carpet. At first you think you're running it too soft, then you realize it's not bottoming out on big hits, just completely absorbing all the small stuff in a way no other bike does.

 

[SF Trailboy]

yes there is lots of 'scientific mumbo jumbo' that will tell you what should work the best. At the end of the day- mere mortals dont really find much variance these days. Most suspension systems are fine especially with modern shocks. . I have usually got an aftermarket shock tune regardless just to increase the compression range to suit my heft.

But to be brutally honest- I have had great setup with a single pivot 575 Yeti and Orange. There aint much in it for the average sized weekend warrior. I cant blame my suspension design for lack of podium appearances.

I too am worse than average I just want to see the general consensus as to why people love it not why marketers bang on about it.

DW link seems to get a lot of love, surprisingly no-one says split pivot which are both made by Mr Weagle, not usre if this is because not many bikes are running these - Trek APB is obviously similar hence the law suit (so any one ride the fuels etc from trek??? )and Maestro for all the giants running around doesnt get much love so I guess people have bought that one on price. Surprised there is a bit of love for the big S which I quiet like my hardtail of theirs - so I will definetly be jumping on a camber...

Really need some demo days to roll around unfortunately my local doesnt do much when it comes to demos - I did manage to ride a superfly fs from them which I cant say I had to have... I think I need to keep an eye on the canberra scence and spend the 3hrs return travel to do the rides.... Might even have to pay for the privlege of riding said test bikes....