Suspension Setup Help Giant Trance 1

stinkytodamax

Likes Dirt
Hey Guys & Girls,

I'm hoping to get some guidance from the brains trust here.

Setup
IMG_94631.jpg
I've got a 2015 Trance 1 with a Monarch RT3 (non debonair) and I've been chasing the rear end since I bought it mid last year.
I weigh 80kgs and have run the shock in the range of 175 - 195 PSI following the sag markers and aiming for between 25-30%.
I'm running a Dual Position Pike upfront with 2 tokens and a 2.4 DH Maxxis HR2 front and 2.03 Ikon on the rear at 25psi.

Riding Type
Trail with a focus on downhills. I guess you'd call it All Mountain/Enduro because I don't shuttle. I have an XC bike for snappy uphill and XC type stuff.
Majura Pines and Stromlo are the main trails I ride and I want to enter more all mountain/enduro races even an occasional DH this year as my skills come up to scratch.

Problem
The bike never feels right in open or pedal modes.

In open the shock feels like it lacks mid stoke support but the rebound feels well controlled. (I prefer to descend in this mode)

In pedal mode the rear feels too linear with to fast a rebound speed even on the slowest setting and its harsh on small bumps, roots etc.

I cant decided if I run 25% sag and full open or 30%+ sag with compression dampening turned on. The more sag I run bike feels quiet dead/unsupported I assume because its in the mid stroke.

For those out there with the same bike or even shock how do you run it? Will the debonair air can upgrade help me or do I save for a better rear shock and if so which one?

Cheers

JP
 
Last edited:

Richard Devey

Likes Bikes
Hi mate yep go the bigger can, I have the same bike but with a fox float I upgraded to bigger volume can and its the best for all your problems
 

Asininedrivel

Likes Dirt
I had a go on one of these for a weekend last year. All up probably had about 8 hours riding time on it.

Guys at the shop very strongly advised that it should be run at 20% sag, which I thought was too high for a 140mm trail bike but given I had very little knowledge of Monarchs and no experience with Maestro I went with it anyway. I'm around 90kgs with gear, so set to 220psi (again seemed very high) to get 20%. Given that it was a demo bike I wasn't pushing it overly hard as I wasn't all that keen on breaking it, but found at the above settings the bike had a very smooth, linear feel and absorbed chatter very well (although a lot of that may be down to the carbon rims). I was very impressed with it. However I can't remember what rebound settings I had.
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
I run a Monarch RT3 non debonair on a totally different bike but have similar problems. I run the sag on the last mark on the shock shaft otherwise it feels too harsh and I weight about 80kg. The rebound dial is about half way, if I don't have the rebound turned up, it zaps all the power out of any hill climb and the bike bobs up and down like crazy. The pedal platform definitely works better at the bottom end of the 30% sag but it's a compromise as you loose travel. In the beginning I was running at 20% or less sag and in the pedal and climbing mode it was terrible. I also found it couldn't handle high pressure in the rear tyre as it couldn't handle the harshness of small hits, under 25psi was best and I really hate low pressures.

I'm pretty sure if you want a plush ride with a good pedal platform you would need to go to the debonair style. You may send it away to get it tuned to your weight and bike at a suspension specialist but I would suspect that it would never work in a large range of riding, as well as something with a bigger air can. Rockshox actually have a diagram of preferred settings and bike lever ratios somewhere on their site.
 

stinkytodamax

Likes Dirt
I had a go on one of these for a weekend last year. All up probably had about 8 hours riding time on it.

Guys at the shop very strongly advised that it should be run at 20% sag, which I thought was too high for a 140mm trail bike but given I had very little knowledge of Monarchs and no experience with Maestro I went with it anyway. I'm around 90kgs with gear, so set to 220psi (again seemed very high) to get 20%. Given that it was a demo bike I wasn't pushing it overly hard as I wasn't all that keen on breaking it, but found at the above settings the bike had a very smooth, linear feel and absorbed chatter very well (although a lot of that may be down to the carbon rims). I was very impressed with it. However I can't remember what rebound settings I had.
My Trance feels ok at 20% as well but when push comes to shove the rebound is too quick when you're hitting jumps.

Do you remember if you ran it in the open setting or pedal?

My XC bike is an old Santa Cruz so I've used to running it full open all the time and given the Giant has a similar dual link system I assumed it would be similar but the Giant bobs a goof deal more.
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
My Trance feels ok at 20% as well but when push comes to shove the rebound is too quick when you're hitting jumps.

Do you remember if you ran it in the open setting or pedal?

My XC bike is an old Santa Cruz so I've used to running it full open all the time and given the Giant has a similar dual link system I assumed it would be similar but the Giant bobs a goof deal more.
Does it have a rebound dampening adjustment knob on it?
 

stinkytodamax

Likes Dirt
Does it have a rebound dampening adjustment knob on it?

Yes running at one click from full slow, at full slow its too slow. At this setting it still felt like it was trying to over take the front end with no rebound wound on the fork.

At 30% sag its not as bad but still suffers the same trait which is scary when trying to overcome fear in new sections of trail that I trying to get dialled.

I'll be running 35% sag next ride too see how that goes in both settings.
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
Yes running at one click from full slow, at full slow its too slow. At this setting it still felt like it was trying to over take the front end with no rebound wound on the fork. .
Something is very wrong here, it should be packing down over bumps really bad at that setting. I try to set my rebound just enough so that bike doesn't rebound or spring back off the ground after a large jump, except for this shock because it's a little bouncy in the climb mode I give it about 2 more clicks than I should. Check that the shock tune is right for your lever ratio of the bike. Check your sag in the full open gate position, it should be in the furthest position away from the aircan valve.

This is a good funny video for a starting point of setting sag and rebound. The rebound part is half way through the video and it's for fox shocks but it works on Rockshox also.
[video]http://www.ridefox.com/help.php?m=bike&id=569&ref=search[/video]

Tunechart.JPG
 
Last edited:

DJR

Likes Dirt
I have a monarch plus RC3 on my trance 1 with the non-debonair air can. I don't really notice a massive difference between the 3 settings to be honest. The low comp setting definitely moves more than the high one though. I can't say it seems to affect the rebound at all but it might be different on the non-piggyback version you have as the compression piston is in the piggyback on the plus version.


Just to be sure here... is the shock the stock one that came with the bike and what's the tune setting listed on there? M/M, L/M, M/L? should be on the can somewhere. If you have L rebound damping (ie L is on the red square) then maybe it needs an M, thicker damping oil, a custom tune or you should go for a piggyback shock...
 
Last edited:

teK--

Eats Squid
It sounds like you need 3-4 bottomless volume spacer rings in your shock. If its like the Monarch in my Reign, Giant don't fit any in the bike from new, which makes the shock way too linear with limited midstroke support and easy to bottom out:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/rockshox-monarch-vivid-bottomless-ring-kit/rp-prod123818

NS Dynamics also sell them it was about $35 shipped.

The Debonair can is only going to help with the top of the stroke, but your concern is with the mid stroke, the latter of which is what the rings will help with.

Your rebound also sounds really slow. one click from fully closed would be slow as molasses and it would be harsh as hell on bumps as it would pack up all the time. I suggest start at midway (about 9 clicks) and then open it up one click at a time (towards hare) until you feel it springs back too much off small drops (like a street gutter), then close it by one click.

On my old Trance SX (same frame as yours) I ran 30% sag and it was perfect for the type of riding I did, which sounds not too dissimilar to yours.
 

stinkytodamax

Likes Dirt
It sounds like you need 3-4 bottomless volume spacer rings in your shock. If its like the Monarch in my Reign, Giant don't fit any in the bike from new, which makes the shock way too linear with limited midstroke support and easy to bottom out:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/rockshox-monarch-vivid-bottomless-ring-kit/rp-prod123818

NS Dynamics also sell them it was about $35 shipped.

The Debonair can is only going to help with the top of the stroke, but your concern is with the mid stroke, the latter of which is what the rings will help with.

Your rebound also sounds really slow. one click from fully closed would be slow as molasses and it would be harsh as hell on bumps as it would pack up all the time. I suggest start at midway (about 9 clicks) and then open it up one click at a time (towards hare) until you feel it springs back too much off small drops (like a street gutter), then close it by one click.

On my old Trance SX (same frame as yours) I ran 30% sag and it was perfect for the type of riding I did, which sounds not too dissimilar to yours.
Thanks Tek, someone said this place was dead but the quality of responses from members has been great.

I'll get a ring kit from the LBS. If its like the bottomless tokens I put in the pike we might be on a winner. I didn't even know such a kit existed. I'm also looking at getting the air can because I wouldn't mind the top part of the stroke being more responsive for trail riding. Majura Pines many momentum sapping roots would be far easier with a smoother initial stroke.

In relation to my rebound I've merely adjusted it until it wasn't trying to overtake the front on high speed jumps etc. I'll drop the rear pressure back to 30% and reset the rebound as you've suggested.

Did you run your Trance in open or pedal for descents?
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
Thanks Tek, someone said this place was dead but the quality of responses from members has been great.

I'll get a ring kit from the LBS. If its like the bottomless tokens I put in the pike we might be on a winner. I didn't even know such a kit existed. I'm also looking at getting the air can because I wouldn't mind the top part of the stroke being more responsive for trail riding. Majura Pines many momentum sapping roots would be far easier with a smoother initial stroke.

In relation to my rebound I've merely adjusted it until it wasn't trying to overtake the front on high speed jumps etc. I'll drop the rear pressure back to 30% and reset the rebound as you've suggested.

Did you run your Trance in open or pedal for descents?
Let us know if there is provision for volume reducers on the non-debonair shock, I can't see anything online, all of the pics I've seen are on debonair models.
 

Ultra Lord

Beanie Fitment Specialist
Let us know if there is provision for volume reducers on the non-debonair shock, I can't see anything online, all of the pics I've seen are on debonair models.
Yeah I'd make sure you can actually run them before shelling out for them, but I'd imagine you can. They definitely made a difference on my reign.
 

PhillipJ

Likes Bikes
Let us know if there is provision for volume reducers on the non-debonair shock, I can't see anything online, all of the pics I've seen are on debonair models.
The HV and Debonair cans can use volume spacer band. Normal/standard volume air cans can't use the bands because there's nowhere to put them. Given the roughly similar size I think you could probably make a Fox volume spacer fit.


I didn't want to spend $$$ on rubber bands so I just slipped a couple of layers of lightly greased inner tube over my inner aircan of my HV RT3. Pic of someone else's near the bottom of this thread: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12963501
 

madstace

Likes Dirt
The HV and Debonair cans can use volume spacer band. Normal/standard volume air cans can't use the bands because there's nowhere to put them. Given the roughly similar size I think you could probably make a Fox volume spacer fit.


I didn't want to spend $$$ on rubber bands so I just slipped a couple of layers of lightly greased inner tube over my inner aircan of my HV RT3. Pic of someone else's near the bottom of this thread: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12963501
That's genius! I've gotta say, that's part of the problem with the bike industry, $35 for 8 rubber bands, it's just rude!
 

DJR

Likes Dirt
That's genius! I've gotta say, that's part of the problem with the bike industry, $35 for 8 rubber bands, it's just rude!
I just used a few wraps of electrical tape. It works well as you don't even need to remove the shock from the bike like you do to get the bands on (but you can store unused bands on the outside of the air can for trailside tuning)

Thinking more about this with a high sag % you might be running into the "rapid recovery" rebound on the shock where it rebounds faster towards the end of the stroke - I believe the rebound knob on models with "rapid recovery" is only for the beginning stroke rebound. May feel better with the bands though as that will give you the ramp up you're after
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
Ok thanks guys, I'm lucky mine is a HV can. I should try and play around with some spacers when I have time.
 

stinkytodamax

Likes Dirt
I just used a few wraps of electrical tape. It works well as you don't even need to remove the shock from the bike like you do to get the bands on (but you can store unused bands on the outside of the air can for trailside tuning)

Thinking more about this with a high sag % you might be running into the "rapid recovery" rebound on the shock where it rebounds faster towards the end of the stroke - I believe the rebound knob on models with "rapid recovery" is only for the beginning stroke rebound. May feel better with the bands though as that will give you the ramp up you're after
Looks like the tape maybe my best bet. My very helpful LBS dont think the bands will fit.
 

teK--

Eats Squid
Sorry I didn't think to check that the rings I linked to would fit a non-Debonair. If you want to go ghetto and without buying the rings then I suggest buy "SOS" tape from Bunnings it is silicon and won't react with the oil and grease in the air can like electrical tape or natural rubber bands can.
 

SummitFever

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I'd start with the rebound all the way fast and ride off a curb seated a few times. Gradually add clicks until the bike feels like its not pushing your backside off the seat, then speed the rebound back up a few clicks. This will give you a good starting point. It is generally better to run your rebound faster than slower. You can accomodate a faster rebound with your body, but if the shock is packing down over successive hits, then there is nothing you can do from the cockpit.

If you need to run your rebound almost all the way closed, then there is probably something wrong in the damper. Give the shock a full rebuild and start again.

Also, the way the rear suspension feels is very dependent on how you've got your fork set up. Too much rebound damping on the fork will require too much on the rear to keep things feeling balanced. Try to dial your fork rebound in with the same method, starting from full fast.

Note: make sure you run the fork and shock in the "open" modes to set the rebound properly (and set the sag% before you dial the rebound in - a different air pressure will require a different rebound setting).
 
Top