Scotty T
Walks the walk
I really hope you're right, better late than never. Summer has definitely been an eye opener.
The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.
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Scotty T
Walks the walk
Without checking right now I think I was looking at some old science. Maybe we're reaching a point where the science can't keep up. Greens are still in front either way.No, the science does not say that getting to zero by 2040 will limit us to 2 degrees. There is only barely a chance that it'll top out at 2 degrees even if radical & collective action takes place & the earth truly hits carbon neutrality.
This best sums up the mess we are in:
John U
MTB Precision
Not sure what you mean here in relation to science keeping up Scotty. Predictions are just that. They will change as time progresses and results get verified.
hifiandmtb
Sphincter beanie
Science is keeping up. Future predictions are simply becoming more accurate.
Nothing in relation to CC has been underplayed so far...it's happening faster than we could have expected.
Nothing in relation to CC has been underplayed so far...it's happening faster than we could have expected.
hifiandmtb
Sphincter beanie
Anyone losing sleep over CC yet? You ain’t seen nothing yet...
Nambra
Definitely should have gone to specsavers
Pussy...
...and dog must be feeling better now.
I know the southern states are breaking temperature records and Tassie is burning up, but for those of us in SEQ it's also been unseasonably dry most of summer. We're usually getting afternoon storms every other day this time of year and our gardens are like jungles. Sustained temps of 31°-33° might not compare with SA/VIC at present, but tropical heat is different and above 30° with high humidity is pretty steamy. More notable though is the lack of rain; definitely not a typical summer.
Haakon
has an accommodating arse
This. If you're reading otherwise, check your sources.
The IPCC has consistently downplayed their estimates in every report. With the weight of conservative pushback globally and the political clout they've amassed, there was a political need to soften things to avoid spooking the horses in the hope they could positively influence decision makers.
Accusation of the science being hysterical and "alarmist" are what we in the trade like to call "A Lie".
It so much worse than feared, happening way faster. As hifiandmtb says, the predictions are only further confirming worst held fears.
Humanity will be fine I think - in the long term. We are adaptable critters. The cockroaches always survive the great extinction events...
hifiandmtb
Sphincter beanie
I'm not so sure - humans rely on nature & if nature is dead we are dead.
Once the food supply ceases, we cease. Just think of the bee situation:
www.bbc.com
Once the food supply ceases, we cease. Just think of the bee situation:
What would happen if bees went extinct?
It would mean a lot more than fewer stings and breakfast options. Maddie Moate reveals just how much we depend on bees, and how close we are to losing them.
www.bbc.com
Haakon
has an accommodating arse
We might end up living in domes surviving on vat grown protein supplements and generally not having fun - but we will survive.I'm not so sure - humans rely on nature & if nature is dead we are dead.
Once the food supply ceases, we cease. Just think of the bee situation:
What would happen if bees went extinct?
It would mean a lot more than fewer stings and breakfast options. Maddie Moate reveals just how much we depend on bees, and how close we are to losing them.
There will also likely be a whole lot less of us. I have my fingers crossed for an effective population correction sometime soon... Would be nice to think we are smart enough as a species to manage it ourselves, but looks like we'll need mother nature or a really big war to do it for us.
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Wars aren't big enough. You need a pandemic. My guess is a flu strain originating in Southern China.
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droenn
Fat Man's XC President
Plenty of research
So yes, the poor bees are getting hammered by neonicotinoids and the like, but they also compete with the native pollinators in an area. While they might not be as effective pollinators, there is plenty of research looking at how maintaining your native populations of flies, bees (beyond Apis), beetles and wasps can provide pollination services to the crop. Main problem here is - we went and cleared all the land around our paddocks to have bigger paddocks.
And there's always hand pollination (en masse in China, and at a smaller scale for glasshouse tomatoes in Aus etc.)...
This is a bit of a romanticised view. Bees (and we're only talking honey bees here) in most parts of the world are no more "nature" than a herd of cows is "nature". In fact, bees are pretty much livestock - managed animal populations to improve crop yields.I'm not so sure - humans rely on nature & if nature is dead we are dead.
Once the food supply ceases, we cease. Just think of the bee situation:
What would happen if bees went extinct?
It would mean a lot more than fewer stings and breakfast options. Maddie Moate reveals just how much we depend on bees, and how close we are to losing them.
So yes, the poor bees are getting hammered by neonicotinoids and the like, but they also compete with the native pollinators in an area. While they might not be as effective pollinators, there is plenty of research looking at how maintaining your native populations of flies, bees (beyond Apis), beetles and wasps can provide pollination services to the crop. Main problem here is - we went and cleared all the land around our paddocks to have bigger paddocks.
And there's always hand pollination (en masse in China, and at a smaller scale for glasshouse tomatoes in Aus etc.)...
Scotty T
Walks the walk
I guess I mean things are escalating so quickly that the science is out of date by the time someone bases a policy on it.
Haakon
has an accommodating arse
If humanity was actually smart en masse, it would control breeding...
But it remains true that one of the best bang for buck CC mitigation spends is the wholesale provision education and contraception for women in third world countries. Which is depressing on many levels.
Haakon
has an accommodating arse
The basic premise remains true though - its generally just a matter of degrees (if you'll excuse the pun...). Bring down CO2-e emissions asap and see get onto sequestration.
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
...a really big war, that'll be good for the environment
Calvin27
Eats Squid
Not sure that is entirely true. Resource consumption goes nuts during war.
We are so far from that - we are bloody incentivising it with middle class welfare aimed squarely at families and baby bonuses (is that still a thing?).
Which gets to the crux of the problem. Our economic model cannot coexist with an environment policy that limits CC.
Haakon
has an accommodating arse
There is an argument to be made that Trump may be a positive influence on the world in the long term - if he can crash capitalism and inspire a "green new deal" from his horrified opponents things may well improve. But its safe to say I think that the current market models dont work well - at least while governments are afraid to adequately price in the environmental externalites...
I'll leave that discussion though to those more economically literate than I....