The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[steve job's pancreas]

johnny, I tells ya I reckon this is a pointless excercise that only ends in frustration and yelling at the wireless

they all shonky as the day is long, the system is such that anyone with substance gives up, dies on the vine, turns to the dark side well before any impact can be felt

tis human nature, give me the seppo system anyday, far more entertaining than the personality blackholes our system lobs up.

 

[TonyG]

report card

It’s been a while since I’ve posted…

A quick one on this, my report card on the current government would be 2 out of 10,

Education – Pyne is a c<nt of the highest order, the smug looking f*ck seems to just p!sses me off every time I look at him. And has made a total botch of the Gonski reforms.

Foreign Affairs – at some point all the front bench seems to have made a hatch of things. No one thought to pick up a phone and try and explain away the phone tapping to Indonesia, rather just make snotty remarks in the press to further inflame things. This is school boy stuff and just shows a cowardly trait when you can’t just talk directly to the person. If Abbott and Bishop really were so sure they were right, it shouldn’t be that hard a call to explain directly to the President of Indonesia. They didn’t need to apologise but rather explain their position they were so sure is correct!
Again with the China/Japan thing, absolutely no reason to wade in to this now.. Not smart at all..

NBN – Turnbull has painted himself into a corner with this one. He’s pledged all pre-election that he had a better answer, now the real analysis has come to light the Lib proposal has been shown to be far inferior and more expensive. He has to man up here and admit he picked a poor solution, he can still improve on the previous gov’ts plan and save some face, but I’m afraid he’s like that person who just doesn’t want to admit he’s wrong and will argue all day despit the plan truth sitting for all to see! This is a train wreck in the happening.

Boats – Never the issue both parties tried to make it, and now they are further stressing relationships with Indonisia to try and make it look like they have it under control.

Budget – Probably the only place they haven’t fallen on their faces. I didn’t think Hockey had the mettle for this, but I could be wrong. Still along way to go before he makes a name for himself as a Treasurer though.

 

[placebo]

LNP - can't trust that the policy you vote for will be the policy you get from them

You can absolutely trust this government that the policy you voted for is the policy that will be implemented. It's not the fault of the government that what you thought you were voting for is not the policy that they are going to implement. Unless they decide to then use the policy you thought you'd voted for, and not their true original policy which you had really voted for anyway, if you had understood how policy works.

 

[John U]

Just want to make mention of all the 'non-core' promises that seem to have been made prior to the election.

ALP - can't trust that the person you vote for will be the person who remains PM

Are you talking this election cycle or a previous government? If it's a previous government then they the same could be said for any government that changed leader. I would've thought this would be expected from any almost any government if the leader isn't leading well. In fact it would be the wise thing to do if the leader isn't leading well. Not necessarily in the realm of core promises

It’s been a while since I’ve posted…

A quick one on this, my report card on the current government would be 2 out of 10,

<snip>

Budget – Probably the only place they haven’t fallen on their faces. I didn’t think Hockey had the mettle for this, but I could be wrong. Still along way to go before he makes a name for himself as a Treasurer though.

Don't forget the fact that the LNPs budget emergency was nothing of the sort they made it out to be prior to the election. They lied on that front.

 

[TonyG]

Don't forget the fact that the LNPs budget emergency was nothing of the sort they made it out to be prior to the election. They lied on that front.

Fair point..
I still think the right decision was made to replace the previous gov't. The whole Gillard/Rudd thing had to go, it was toxic and unsustanable. I put this wholly on Kevin, I personally think Gillard did an okay job considering the deck was so clearly stacked against her. She had to deal with Rudd undermining her, and worse still a hung parliment.
Lets hope the current gov't can improve on the poor start and start to make more positive policy implementation.

 

[scblack]

Are you talking this election cycle or a previous government? If it's a previous government then they the same could be said for any government that changed leader. I would've thought this would be expected from any almost any government if the leader isn't leading well. In fact it would be the wise thing to do if the leader isn't leading well. Not necessarily in the realm of core promises

Only the Rudd/Gillard circus ever changed a sitting PM. It had NEVER happened before, and remains an extraordinarily bad action.

Not a core promise??? Are you serious? I'd say almost ALL voters would expect a PM they voted for to sit out the term as PM. It'd be a pretty big factor in the recent voting out of Rudd I reckon.

 

[John U]

Only the Rudd/Gillard circus ever changed a sitting PM. It had NEVER happened before, and remains an extraordinarily bad action.

Not a core promise??? Are you serious? I'd say almost ALL voters would expect a PM they voted for to sit out the term as PM. It'd be a pretty big factor in the recent voting out of Rudd I reckon.

Didn't Keating replace Hawke? Don't have to go back too far to find an example. I haven't studied politics.

I actuall vote for my local member. If that local member is a member of a party that forms government and that partys leader turns out to be a fuckwit that can't run the country I would thiink it'd be the right thing to do to change leader.

Are you suggesting that the leader shouldn't change regardless of whether or not they can do the job?

Agree totally that Rudd's shenanigans was a big factor in Labour being voted out. In the end he was a fuckwit of that order.

I'd also add that if the LNP had've got rid of Howard before their end they may have had some sort of chance of retaining government but that was an example of a fuckwit being backed up by a bunch of spineless fuck wits.

 

[Matt H]

You can absolutely trust this government that the policy you voted for is the policy that will be implemented. It's not the fault of the government that what you thought you were voting for is not the policy that they are going to implement. Unless they decide to then use the policy you thought you'd voted for, and not their true original policy which you had really voted for anyway, if you had understood how policy works.

Is this satire? I actually can't tell.

 

[johnny]

Foreign Affairs – at some point all the front bench seems to have made a hatch of things. No one thought to pick up a phone and try and explain away the phone tapping to Indonesia, rather just make snotty remarks in the press to further inflame things. This is school boy stuff and just shows a cowardly trait when you can’t just talk directly to the person. If Abbott and Bishop really were so sure they were right, it shouldn’t be that hard a call to explain directly to the President of Indonesia. They didn’t need to apologise but rather explain their position they were so sure is correct!
Again with the China/Japan thing, absolutely no reason to wade in to this now.. Not smart at all..

Sorry mate but I think you're completely off the mark here. Firstly, I'm not sure how you know what phone calls have and have not been placed to Jakarta. As a matter of fact, I'd bet both my arms that there are a number of different offices talking behind the scenes. Plus, Indo is acting for domestic goals here rather than actually having Australia as it's target audience. Secondly, Australia very much has to 'wade in' to the China issue. Approx 46% of our foreign trade is with China, Japan, ROK and Taiwan. What happens there is central to our national security in terms of economic security. Added to that, Japan is an ally of Australia, that means we have a reason to voice our concerns when the sovereignty of an ally is threatened, otherwise we will eventually be without allies. And lastly, when all pretenses are dropped, Australia does not want conflict and has to act in ways to shape events away from such an outcome and if we cannot do that we have to give support to our allies, which essentially means the United States.

I would only suggest that maybe calling in the ambassador was over-reach, they could have just made a public statement. Although, the response from China would have been the same and to be honest, it really means very little. Don't confuse Chinese public indignation with real problems that will actually create change.

Are you talking this election cycle or a previous government? If it's a previous government then they the same could be said for any government that changed leader. I would've thought this would be expected from any almost any government if the leader isn't leading well. In fact it would be the wise thing to do if the leader isn't leading well. Not necessarily in the realm of core promises
Don't forget the fact that the LNPs budget emergency was nothing of the sort they made it out to be prior to the election. They lied on that front.

I'm talking about this govt because they are the current issue. The last govt were the same as were the govt before that. I'm not really talking about leadership changes here, I'm talking about pre-election commitments, such as education and the state of the economy and the post election behaviour of the new govt. Just hoping to point out that so far, when it comes to honesty and reliability this govt is no different to the last.

 

[rotorub]

side note Just finished watching Keating interview series on the ABC.
Very interesting. I have said it before Politics today is very boring & PC dancing round the issues unlike the 80's and 90's bring back the rubbery figures!

ABC has made a playlist of keatings insults


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-12/watch-all-keating-insults/5084852

I remember this one

[video=youtube;ghaU7KMJAks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghaU7KMJAks&list=PLn2RjxYNpcazm_8_ZSGH9u_ADXjRKA9Qf[/video]

 

[rotorub]

[video=youtube;kxq__3z9zGM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxq__3z9zGM[/video]

 

[floody]

We know politicians always give jobs to mates, but does it get more cynical than appointing an ex-IPA director of policy to the Human Rights Commission, given IPA policy is that the HRC should be abolished?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-17/tim-wilson-human-rights-commissioner/5161300



I feel a little ill.

 

[Halo1]

We know politicians always give jobs to mates, but does it get more cynical than appointing an ex-IPA director of policy to the Human Rights Commission, given IPA policy is that the HRC should be abolished?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-17/tim-wilson-human-rights-commissioner/5161300



I feel a little ill.

His position certainly sounds contradictory. I agreed with him at the time that free speech was being limited and the Human rights commission was strangely silent on this topic. Not sure how he will go. On the one hand I am glad these positions are being unstacked by ALP lefties. But on the other I think he might be a bit too conservative for a lot of people. It will be interesting to watch this one unfold.

 

[johnny]

As much as I think Bolt is an infant, I did think his questions was somewhat valid and he should have been allowed to ask it.

I wonder if Wilson will continue appearing on The Drum.

 

[scblack]

Bit surprised by the govt blocking the ADM takeover of GrainCorp, I had my money on it going through.

I don't know enough about it to have an opinion on the merits of that decision.

I have looked into this further now. I actually thought the old monopoly style Wheat Board had changed into GrainCorp. Not so, the wheat marketing/distribution industry in Australia has been deregulated, and now at least 20 companies operate in Australia between the growers and the market.

On that basis, I don't understand why the ADM takeover would be blocked. There's no monopoly any longer so farmers can go to another company to sell their wheat, thus not really hurting growers.

Not such a good decision now I know some more background.

 

[johnny]

Hockey never gave any real concrete reasons as to his call, but he did say that the FIRB was split on their call as well. That's gotta make it pretty hard to approve any deal.

 

[oliosky]

As much as I think Bolt is an infant, I did think his questions was somewhat valid and he should have been allowed to ask it.

I wonder if Wilson will continue appearing on The Drum.

Given that Wilson is essentially a coalition employee now I reckon he will have to get further approval from the big boss Peta Credlin before appearing anywhere, especially on that terribly biased ABC.

 

[floody]

As much as I think Bolt is an infant, I did think his questions was somewhat valid and he should have been allowed to ask it.

Well I don't believe Bolt's continued hounding and defaming over a long period of the people involved in the legal action was valid. All about the context. But that's my opinion. Have you read Robert Manne's methodical response to Bolt's campaign of hate and denial?

I also really don't believe Brandis should be flagrantly making policy based in large part on a perceived affront to Andrew Bolt. Nor for that matter should Brandis be engaged in actively promoting Bolt with statements like 'Australia's most popular commentator'.

It is a measure of our casual and institutionalised racism that Bolt was not hounded out of the mainstream press for his systematic attempt to diminish aboriginality and the experience of the stolen generation. It is an object of utter disgracefulness that our government is in to bat for him.

 

[Skydome]

So.. I've been thinking recently.

What made people vote for PUP?

I honestly can't see how people can vote for that party and keep a straight face. If they were only voting for PUP as a protest vote surely there's better parties out there to vote for as a protest vote, like the LDP or some other party.

 

[johnny]

Well I don't believe Bolt's continued hounding and defaming over a long period of the people involved in the legal action was valid. All about the context. But that's my opinion. Have you read Robert Manne's methodical response to Bolt's campaign of hate and denial?

I also really don't believe Brandis should be flagrantly making policy based in large part on a perceived affront to Andrew Bolt. Nor for that matter should Brandis be engaged in actively promoting Bolt with statements like 'Australia's most popular commentator'.

It is a measure of our casual and institutionalised racism that Bolt was not hounded out of the mainstream press for his systematic attempt to diminish aboriginality and the experience of the stolen generation. It is an object of utter disgracefulness that our government is in to bat for him.

Yeah, two people that I don't support in anyway are Brandis and Bolt.

And to be honest, I can't fully recall what his question was, but it was something like why people of only one eighth aboriginal heritage identify with their aboriginality rather than Caucasian heritage. I reckon it's a valid question and when some one unlike Bolt is asking the question it doesn't necessarily imply any kind of value judgement either, it's just a question.

As far as Bolt being a popular commentator, I really only see his as fringe. Not because I don't like him but because I don't think his views are supported by the majority of the country, in any way at all.