The election thread - Medicare Vs cost of living Vs OMG China! Vs housing Vs I'm not Trump! Vs prehistoric fish Vs nuclear energy Vs tariffs Vs AUKUS

[John U]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/as...sports-overboard/story-fn6bfm6w-1226051489669

You are revealing a lot about your views by the sources you are posting. Al is right.

You should try getting your information from more sources, compare the sources and decide for yourself which source sounds closer to the truth.

 

[tc2233]

I recommend you watch this video. It will show you how pointless it is trying to help the less fortunate population of the world by letting them into our country.

http://youtu.be/LPjzfGChGlE

 

[Skydome]

Because an ETS is the most efficient way to do it. So that emissions will eventually be able to be traded internationally. Because markets work.

The only reason the current conservative government isn't supporting an ETS is not because they don't believe in climate science, it is because they don't care, and prioritise current economic success over the long term future of the planet. The direct investment scheme is an embarrassing figleaf.

So let me get this straight, you'd rather waste hundreds of millions, if not billions, in setting up a mostly ineffective trading scheme, than funnel that money into renewable energies research and research into making very efficient electric cars?

Giving that the big polluters like India, China Vietnam etc do not have an ETS and probably have no plan on enacting an ETS in their government, means an ETS will always be doomed to fail, so you are better off funnelling those hundreds of millions of billions of dollars into research into effective and efficient renewable energy and research into efficient electric cars and more effective freight and logistics transportation for goods and services.

Sorry, but an ETS makes no economic sense unless the big polluters like India, China Vietnam etc sign up to it as well, and you have pretty small chances of that happening, so until than, an ETS is a waste of money that can be better spent on more efficient renewable energy and better electric cars and better freight logistics to cut down on the amount of trucks..

 

[johnny]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/as...sports-overboard/story-fn6bfm6w-1226051489669

That only talks about the destruction of documents, nothing about all the other claims you've made.

The info is also up to 6 years old. The majority of those people flying in were Iranian, as I mentioned previously and that visa program has already been terminated by Jakarta.

 

[John U]

So let me get this straight, you'd rather waste hundreds of millions, if not billions, in setting up a mostly ineffective trading scheme, than funnel that money into renewable energies research and research into making very efficient electric cars?

Giving that the big polluters like India, China Vietnam etc do not have an ETS and probably have no plan on enacting an ETS in their government, means an ETS will always be doomed to fail, so you are better off funnelling those hundreds of millions of billions of dollars into research into effective and efficient renewable energy and research into efficient electric cars and more effective freight and logistics transportation for goods and services.

Part of the deal with the carbon tax was that some of the funds raised from it would go into financing renewable energy projects. A fairly large portion also went to people at the lower end of the economic scale to compensate them for the increased costs. People who could afford to do something about got hit with the bill because they have the ability to invest to reduce their electricity usage.

I was paying and I invested in renewables. I had no problem with paying the carbon tax. It made no noticable difference to my life.

 

[John U]

Sorry, but an ETS makes no economic sense unless the big polluters like India, China Vietnam etc sign up to it as well, and you have pretty small chances of that happening, so until than, an ETS is a waste of money that can be better spent on more efficient renewable energy and better electric cars and better freight logistics to cut down on the amount of trucks..

The per capita pollution of those countries you mention is way below ours. Australia needs to pull its' finger out. We were on the right track.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

 

[tc2233]

That only talks about the destruction of documents, nothing about all the other claims you've made.

Like what? They choose to come to Australia because of our benefits (welfare, accomodation etc)? Can you name me one country in between the Middle East and Australia that provides refugees with all the benefits Australia does? because I can't

 

[al_]

Do you really need a trading scheme to tell you, hey, maybe it's a good idea to invest in renewable energies to move away from fossil fuels because fossil fuels won't be around for ever..

Yes. The people that are profiting from fossil fuels need incentives to look to the future. There is an awful a lot of money to be made from people living off coal and oil and unfortunately the LNP is in their corner.

Have you read that the gov is considering breaking its promise about the support for renewable energy? Apparently the problem is that it is working and renewables are cutting into the profits of the 'traditional' energy market.

 

[johnny]

Like what? They choose to come to Australia because of our benefits (welfare, accomodation etc)? Can you name me one country in between the Middle East and Australia that provides refugees with all the benefits Australia does? because I can't

Did you not pay attention to the part where I said most, if not all of those countries don't accept refugees? Those countries in between aren't options mate, they won't let them in.

I'm not saying that you're completely wrong either. There are heaps of economic refugees but they aren't all looking for welfare either. Sometimes they want to work in a developed economy - asylum seekers per capita make up more small business owners than Australian citizens. A large amount of younger asylum arrivals also study and become qualified, however we do pay welfare for them as they get their education.

Australia is party to the applicable UNHCR treaty where we say that we will accept refugees, they aren't. Also, why the hell would anyone go from one violent or war torn country to another? IF you're a Shi'ite coming from PAkistan you do not want to go to Sunni Malaysia or Indonesia, these people kill and torture each other. Basically, the issue is heaps more complex than the way you put it.

Again, I'm not saying that you're completely wrong, just that what you're saying is nowhere near accurate. It only covers a percentage of asylum arrivals and I'm not even sure if it's a majority.

 

[Pastavore]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/as...sports-overboard/story-fn6bfm6w-1226051489669

There is only one "fact" in there, the rest is bluster and suppositions.

How about all this crime caused by asylum seekers and their children in Australia, got a link to some high quality Murdoch sensationalism for that one?


Personally, I think it is highly unlikely that someone is going to flee their country of birth and all there friends and family, get on a leaky boat with a high chance of dying at sea just so they can kick back on a centrlink payment and go, "sweet, I've got it made now."

The asylum seekers that I have met are all motivated people who want to make a good life for themselves in their new home.

 

[floody]

I recommend you watch this video. It will show you how pointless it is trying to help the less fortunate population of the world by letting them into our country.

http://youtu.be/LPjzfGChGlE

A man was walking along a deserted beach at sunset. As he walked he could see a young boy in the distance, as he drew nearer he noticed that the boy kept bending down, picking something up and throwing it into the water.
Time and again he kept hurling things into the ocean.
As the man approached even closer, he was able to see that the boy was picking up starfish that had been washed up on the beach and, one at a time he was throwing them back into the water.
The man asked the boy what he was doing, the boy replied,"I am throwing these washed up starfish back into the ocean, or else they will die through lack of oxygen. "But", said the man, "You can't possibly save them all, there are thousands on this beach, and this must be happening on hundreds of beaches along the coast. You can't possibly make a difference."
The boy looked down, frowning for a moment; then bent down to pick up another starfish, smiling as he threw it back into the sea. He replied, "I made a huge difference to that one!"

This^ is the reality of it.

Beck's visual representation is deliberately misleading. Really the speaker should have had a carafe with 200 gumballs in it, and placed his one or two gumballs in to illustrate the catastrophic difference they made to 'the unemployed, the environment, the health system'.
To suggest doing nothing because we can't fix the entire problem as Roy Beck does is incredibly hypocritical. To complain about the economic cost (ergo, clamouring to make sure his piece of pie doesn't narrow) in the same breath as bemoaning inequality is also pretty callous.

You've outed your self-entitlement and apathy anyway. Typical Liberal voter, "I'm alright Jack! you worry about yourself" attitude.

 

[rednightmare]

There is only one "fact" in there, the rest is bluster and suppositions.

How about all this crime caused by asylum seekers and their children in Australia, got a link to some high quality Murdoch sensationalism for that one?


Personally, I think it is highly unlikely that someone is going to flee their country of birth and all there friends and family, get on a leaky boat with a high chance of dying at sea just so they can kick back on a centrlink payment and go, "sweet, I've got it made now."

It happens all the time. Look at all the refugees from Africa that make the trip to Italy, for example. Italy only provides support for several weeks so a lot of the refugees then head to the Scandinavian countries which provide better welfare benefits, support and citizenship. Is it really so hard to believe that at least some 'asylum seekers' would be drawn to Australia for the same reasons? There is definitely a pull factor, the success of Rudd's PNG solution is evidence of this.

The asylum seekers that I have met are all motivated people who want to make a good life for themselves in their new home.

And they're the guys who are lucky enough to have had the money to afford the trip to Australia. What about those who don't have the $5-10K to pay a people smuggler? Is that not creating a class system among the millions of refugees languishing in camps around the world waiting for resettlement?

 

[John U]

And they're the guys who are lucky enough to have had the money to afford the trip to Australia. What about those who don't have the $5-10K to pay a people smuggler? Is that not creating a class system among the millions of refugees languishing in camps around the world waiting for resettlement?

Our immigration policies do exactly the same thing? That is a whole other can of worms.

 

[Matt H]

smfh at some of you fucking donkey brainers itt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax

 

[Grundos]

Like what? They choose to come to Australia because of our benefits (welfare, accomodation etc)? Can you name me one country in between the Middle East and Australia that provides refugees with all the benefits Australia does? because I can't

Now I might be a bit naive here, but doesn't this highlight an issue with our welfare policies more so than our immigration policies? Why dangle the carrot and then imprison everyone who comes to take a bite?

BTW johnny, loving your posts, very informative.

 

[pink poodle]

well it is a bit of a quiet night and I log on for a bit of a rotorburn catch up....only to see my work poiting out ignorance and racisms has already been done. the only things I would add are:

- the issue political parties and media seem to miss are that our methods for dealing with asylum seekers are ineffective (stay with me), we don't need to spend more on being tougher or more brutal or more ignorant, we just need to improve the legislation and associated processes and systems. being tougher just makes us look like agreement breaking arseholes. when people seek to come here their application should be processedas swiftly as possible and the outcome implemented.

- there is soooooooooooooooooooo much money tied up in the mining industry that it will be a long time before that industry invests in their own competitors. on that, the government is very reliant on what little money comes in from those industries already. so as they dwindle other revenue streams are needed....otherwise we go into the dreaded DEBT!!! oh no, we cant have DEBT! similar things can be said about cigarettes and alcohol, the legal drugs.

- Australians really do need to learn to turn their aircon off. and that second fridge. oh and your big fucking tv? you bet it is chewing up the power.....I think there is possibly an interesting link between some of the reasons we are a nation of fat lazy shits and have such high household power bills. I disconnected one small 3 foot tropical fish tank a few years ago and halved my electricity bill. I was really surprised.

- racism is ugly and it pervades our Australian culture.

- Rupert Murdoch does not provide news or information.

- mining companies make lots of money from raping the earth. have a look at the upper hunter valley if you need a bit of easy access proof. it looks like the set from NASA's faked moon landing. look at what happened in PNG a few years ago when an Australian company's gold mine had a small spill. if I owned a mining company I would want to keep on sleeping on my bed of money. I recently read that the recent drop in the AU$ has facilitated an additional $19/tonne profit rise for coal. I also read that there is a huge amount of pressure to continue forcing down the AU$.....hmmmm. hope those profits taste good!

- say no to drugs.

 

[tc2233]

- racism is ugly and it pervades our Australian culture.

-

I don't get how it automatically makes you a racist if you don't believe Australia shouldn't be letting in Asylum Seekers that don't have a passport. That is just where political correctness has gone wrong in Australia and western society, it's a joke.

Does that make countries like Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong more racist than Australia because they have policies that are much stricter than Australia to prevent refugees/asylum seekers coming into their countries?

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

Japan's racism is widely known and they are often taken to task for it. Singapore is a to all intents and purposes a dictatorship. A really clean and well managed dictatorship but one nonetheless.

As for the passport thing. If a militia started bombing the fuck out of the small town where you've lived all your life and started executing anyone they deem fit, would you hang around and wait for a passport application to be approved?

 

[Skydome]

Japan's racism is widely known and they are often taken to task for it. Singapore is a to all intents and purposes a dictatorship. A really clean and well managed dictatorship but one nonetheless.

As for the passport thing. If a militia started bombing the fuck out of the small town where you've lived all your life and started executing anyone they deem fit, would you hang around and wait for a passport application to be approved?

I'd actually be interested to know where the majority of Asylum seekers come from.

Iran Vietnam Iraq India?

Do such stats actually exists?

 

[al_]

I don't get how it automatically makes you a racist if you don't believe Australia shouldn't be letting in Asylum Seekers that don't have a passport. That is just where political correctness has gone wrong in Australia and western society, it's a joke.

Does that make countries like Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong more racist than Australia because they have policies that are much stricter than Australia to prevent refugees/asylum seekers coming into their countries?

I find pathetic justifications like this fascinating. Instead of hiding behind xenophobic commentators can you try to describe exactly are you afraid of? These people are fleeing warzones, religious persecution and criminally corrupt and oppressive governments. The fact that they are willing to take genuine risks with their lives for a chance at freedom says everything.

I heard this week that Australia is definitely holding Syrians in offshore detention. There is no justification for that - it is absolutely indefensible. I bet those illegal bastards are just coming for the dole though...