The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[Skydome]

The German greens are actually decent, but our greens are, deep down inside, reds, and they know it.

 

[johnny]

Yes, just being a Greens party does not indicate a standard across the board from one nation to another - as per any issues or ideology based party.

 

[scblack]

About Drew's article he linked. International tax is an incredibly complex field, and to think that we can just slap a law in place and that companies will therefore pay more tax is shortsighted (that is in no way a go at Drew, I am no tax expert either, I just know a bit more than him seeing as he works in museums).

We just hosted the G20 Summit with international tax being a target raised by Joe Hockey. This summit got nowhere as far as a decent response.

There's no quick fix for this field. I wish there was.

 

[GeoffRidesBikes]

The Greens aren't as hokey as many commentators would have you believe. Germany has had the Greens as a significant power in their policies for many many decades without the whole place going down the gurgler. And this is a country where resources, manufacturing and financial governance all have a big role to play. Intriguingly, the investment in renewables resource now makes Germany one of the big international players in the solar energy sector with big returns to the economy and to manufacturing(and no doubt to patent revenues...)

"Greens are financially irresponsible" is a great 4 word slogan to trot out, but it drastically oversimplifies the situation (as all trite 3 and 4 word slogans tend to).

If Hockey et al weren't giving a free pass to major corporations to tax dodge by moving profits off shore then I might contemplate taking any of their arguments about budgets and fiscal responsibility seriously. While they give hand outs to the well to do and want to screw the least well off, I think they are lowlife blood sucking scum who deserve all the ridicule and derision that they are currently receiving.

We are well fucked once the resources run out unless we move our economy from being a quarry/mine/woodchip mill to a country that actually value adds. That requires both manufacturing and R&D.

Obviously just my personal opinion.

If only our supreme leaders hadn't buried the coffin (for now) of what would be the next big industry...

Renewables is going to be a major manufacturing, R&D and jobs creation boom in a lot of other countries. Not here though. We'll be WELL behind the pack for years now. We'll come into the game when everything is sussed, patents are ruthlessly enforced and we'll buy everything prefab'd out of china.

Ahhhhh

 

[johnny]

Yeah, agree with GeoffRidesBikes. Australia is an R&D leader in some fields, which proves we have the capability to push our way in to fields such as green/renewables. It's a great pity that this govt took on the policy it did in that field.

I understand the likely demand for coal in East/Southeast/South Asia and the potential for Australia to make a lot of money in the coming decades selling it to them. However should disruptive technology emerge that makes coal even somewhat redundant we will be just as stranded as the coal in the ground. There are many suppliers of coal, many of whom that can supply it cheaper than us. So I'd like to see us putting just as many eggs in the renewables and carbon capture basket as we do in the coal mining basket.

Disclaimer - I know very little regarding the technology of carbon capture and renewables.

 

[pink poodle]

Picture probably tells you that men outnumber women in volunteer fire brigades - hardly a surprise

View attachment 309450

Of course, they wouldn't use that photo at the greens of the same AGM of a rural fire service

Just needs the wink!

 

[DJninja]

About Drew's article he linked. International tax is an incredibly complex field, and to think that we can just slap a law in place and that companies will therefore pay more tax is shortsighted (that is in no way a go at Drew, I am no tax expert either, I just know a bit more than him seeing as he works in museums).

We just hosted the G20 Summit with international tax being a target raised by Joe Hockey. This summit got nowhere as far as a decent response.

There's no quick fix for this field. I wish there was.

it's not like international law can't be studied by like lawyers and stuff. One of the reasons the summit got no where fast is because multinationals have massive power and the libs ideology is probably not wanting to tax them. The balls rolling I guess. Your right, something like this needs a long consultation.

We're open for business for fucks sake, not open to increase tax on business.

 

[pink poodle]

Or it is a domestic tax on multinationals...the issue isn't how to tax them, it is how to tax them and still have an economy that is attractive to investment. Australia (in recent years) has made some significant progress in tax treaties with foreign countries. Most of them are small piss ant places. It has assisted in reducing tax haven activities. The ATO regularly blows their trumpet about these achievements.

 

[al_]

Greens had so much more credibility ten years back.

I do like that they are present in Aust. politics though. They have some stupid policies, fo sho. However it's good that we have a party with a conscience that scream pretty loudly regarding human rights, environment, same sex rights and other similar issues. Without them there'd be far less light on issues like that.



Simple fundamental rule of politics - never take anything at face value.

What do you think are the stupid policies? Genuinely curious, because the policy development process has far more integrity than Lib and Lab. It is interesting to hear people get specific, because most just repeat ignorant columnist rubbish.

This is worth a read if you are genuinely interested in who the modern greens represent - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ns-scaring-labor/story-fn59niix-1227254273470.

 

[johnny]

Using ALP and LNP as a benchmark isn't a good start, in my opinion.

Also, I don't even read columnists let alone spout their opinions as my own - kind of surprised you might even imply that, to be honest.

I can't give hard details here as it's based on my listening to them make policy pronouncements/announcements and me thoroughly disagreeing. Some that come to mind are the reaction to the current deployments to Iraq, some previous positions on asylum seekers (not to imply that I agree with ALP/LNP here either), I didn't agree with their strategy on the indexing of fuel excise either and I have not agreed with their basic media strategy since BB either. I don't think Milne makes good visuals/audio as a public leader. Sarah Hanson Young will do better when she matures and loses some of the 'outrage'.

 

[Norco Maniac]

coming in a few days late with this (because it's rather difficult to fit in being a card-carrying Lunching Lady of Leisure and devoting my energies to the ironing and supporting my husband in whatever comes dribbling out of his mouth in support of his social climbing needs, whilst sanding and painting my renovator home, spreading mulch in my organic food forest garden, installing a vintage wardrobe in my bedroom, or most importantly building another Retro bike to RADelaide ride on) but isn't it a little odd that our self-proclaimed Minister For Women held the Liberal Party celebrations for International Women's Day at a Men's Only club?

discuss.

 

[pink poodle]

Using ALP and LNP as a benchmark isn't a good start, in my opinion.

Also, I don't even read columnists let alone spout their opinions as my own - kind of surprised you might even imply that, to be honest.

I can't give hard details here as it's based on my listening to them make policy pronouncements/announcements and me thoroughly disagreeing. Some that come to mind are the reaction to the current deployments to Iraq, some previous positions on asylum seekers (not to imply that I agree with ALP/LNP here either), I didn't agree with their strategy on the indexing of fuel excise either and I have not agreed with their basic media strategy since BB either. I don't think Milne makes good visuals/audio as a public leader. Sarah Hanson Young will do better when she matures and loses some of the 'outrage'.

That is pure BS johnny. If you aren't careful I will release our little secret...then everyone on here will know you are Miranda Devine.

coming in a few days late with this (because it's rather difficult to fit in being a card-carrying Lunching Lady of Leisure and devoting my energies to the ironing and supporting my husband in whatever comes dribbling out of his mouth in support of his social climbing needs, whilst sanding and painting my renovator home, spreading mulch in my organic food forest garden, installing a vintage wardrobe in my bedroom, or most importantly building another Retro bike to RADelaide ride on) but isn't it a little odd that our self-proclaimed Minister For Women held the Liberal Party celebrations for International Women's Day at a Men's Only club?

discuss.

Ummm...quite obviously the issue is very important to men. Where else would he get a solid crowd of men to deliver that message to? All other traditional strong holds of testosterone and (obviously) deep thinking are overrun by women. As evidenced by the number of married men who obviously iron for and dress themselves! What women would pick a striped suit, striped shirt and striped tie for the office?

 

[scblack]

but isn't it a little odd that our self-proclaimed Minister For Women held the Liberal Party celebrations for International Women's Day at a Men's Only club?

discuss.

I think it is a great show for how far womens rights have come. I do believe that Tatersalls was the last place not to allow women membership. For them to allow women in drops one of the last bastions of a bygone era.


Seeing as you feel so strongly about gender equality Norcomaniac, what are your thoughts on fitness clubs/weight loss centres that are Women Only - such as Fernwood, Curves, Envie Fitness Gyms etc? Surely such discrimination really gets you going doesn't it?

 

[Ackland]

I think it is a great show for how far womens rights have come. I do believe that Tatersalls was the last place not to allow women membership. For them to allow women in drops one of the last bastions of a bygone era.


Seeing as you feel so strongly about gender equality Norcomaniac, what are your thoughts on fitness clubs/weight loss centres that are Women Only - such as Fernwood, Curves, Envie Fitness Gyms etc? Surely such discrimination really gets you going doesn't it?

while we're on feminism.... am I sexist if I think that "gender quotas" are sexist? Why "aim" for 50% of management to be each gender? Why not aim for 100% of people to be the right person for the job?

 

[pharmaboy]

I think it is a great show for how far womens rights have come. I do believe that Tatersalls was the last place not to allow women membership. For them to allow women in drops one of the last bastions of a bygone era.


Seeing as you feel so strongly about gender equality Norcomaniac, what are your thoughts on fitness clubs/weight loss centres that are Women Only - such as Fernwood, Curves, Envie Fitness Gyms etc? Surely such discrimination really gets you going doesn't it?

LOL.

Didn't even know they still existed. Bet the PMs office didn't know the venue was untill it was too late either. Sydney's tatts clubs aren't men only - I'm fairly surprised that Brisbane is so behind the times - actually, no, I'm not....

 

[paulb]

I think it is a great show for how far womens rights have come. I do believe that Tatersalls was the last place not to allow women membership. For them to allow women in drops one of the last bastions of a bygone era.

I don't believe they've changed their membership policy.

And I wonder if they have women to do the housework in their club, cleaners, cooks etc. I'd be surprised if letting women in the door for a paid private function was the great leap forward the Libs seem to think it is.

 

[scblack]

while we're on feminism.... am I sexist if I think that "gender quotas" are sexist? Why "aim" for 50% of management to be each gender? Why not aim for 100% of people to be the right person for the job?

I completely agree.

But in investment, there have been studies that show better investment performance by teams that have better diversity. And that's diversity of race or gender. They concluded that a team of white males all went for similar strategies and diversification of investments were low, so investment returns suffered. A team with different race and gender were not so likely to follow similar strategies meaning greater investment diversification and returns were seen to be improved.

And similar in management teams. A team which is all the same guys could be seen as a team of yes-men. That can lead to poor decisions, or not following up matters which might rock the boat, so optimal decision making is not followed.

A team which has a good mix can be a very robust decision making force.

 

[Pastavore]

while we're on feminism.... am I sexist if I think that "gender quotas" are sexist? Why "aim" for 50% of management to be each gender? Why not aim for 100% of people to be the right person for the job?

It's a very interesting issue, and not an easy one.

I think quotas are to a degree appropriate because there is no sensible reason why women are not representing 50% of senior positions/ boards/ cabinets/ whatever.

Any reason such as " not as qualified", "smaller pool to choose from", "not as experienced" each in themselves represent a level of inequality.

In a perfect equal world, women would naturally occupy roughly 50% of these posistions, and there would be no need for quotas, and no one would care if one board was 90% male, because another board would be 90% female.

 

[Norco Maniac]

I think it is a great show for how far womens rights have come. I do believe that Tatersalls was the last place not to allow women membership. For them to allow women in drops one of the last bastions of a bygone era.

i hardly think that a club that only allows women through the doors upon the express invite of a male member is an appropriate venue for an International Women's Day celebration.

there was no breaking of barriers, all Men's Only clubs have allowed women in to certain functions when accompanied by their husbands.

Seeing as you feel so strongly about gender equality Norcomaniac, what are your thoughts on fitness clubs/weight loss centres that are Women Only - such as Fernwood, Curves, Envie Fitness Gyms etc? Surely such discrimination really gets you going doesn't it?

i think the Fernwood and Curves model is a crock of shite - their programs are not effective and Curves at the very least have "trainers" whose actual function is to push products on the members.

i'm not really a fan of any gym, i find most personal trainers i've spoken to over the years to be ill-educated and i'm not fond of the sausagefest atmosphere.

while we're on feminism.... am I sexist if I think that "gender quotas" are sexist? Why "aim" for 50% of management to be each gender? Why not aim for 100% of people to be the right person for the job?

you're a realist. there is, however, an element of "Old Boy's Club" entrenched in corporate life where the person picked for the job is there because of his connections, not his capabilities.

 

[scblack]

i think the Fernwood and Curves model is a crock of shite - their programs are not effective and Curves at the very least have "trainers" whose actual function is to push products on the members.

i'm not really a fan of any gym, i find most personal trainers i've spoken to over the years to be ill-educated and i'm not fond of the sausagefest atmosphere.

The quality of the model or quality of the trainers is not the issue here.

You have issues with Mens Only clubs. Yet these are Womens Only gyms.

So surely you have an issue with a gym that only admits Women?