floody
Wheel size expert
Which is a lot like having CEOs and oligarchs dictate ATO policy ala smokin' Joe?
The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.
- Thread starter johnny
- Start date
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
Besides the obvious, that rent is indeed included in the basket of goods that is used for the CPI, part of welfare also includes rent assistance and also access to public housing for those on pensions.
Further, there are specific calculations for the various social groups and includes wage earners and also aged pensioners. The current system is that the pension is indexed at the higher of the CPI, the average male FT earnings or aged pension CPI.
I don't know about you, but that is a better deal than nearly all wage earners in this country who don't get such nice treatment.
If you want an example of JHs fuck ups, there's one right there. Classic pork barrelling, and the opposition to returning that indexing to where it should be is classic say no politics.
We can't afford to go giving a better deal to people who don't produce than those who do produce - it's just dumb. ( yes, and I get that t the time, MAWE was growing faster because of productivity gains but that doesn't apply now)
PINT of Stella. mate!
Many, many Scotches
Rudd wanted a more hardline tax. It's one of the things that cost him the leadership. In no way whatsoever am I absolving the Gillard government for their neutered follow-up but you sir appear to be completely blind to the facts that 1: The Liberal party were the one of the principal driving forces behind the pressure to capitulate to the mining lobby
and 2:
You, SCBlack are now on record championing an idea put forward by Kevin Rudd.
♫ Kevin and SC sitting in a tree...♫
On a broad level that is correct, but if there are significant variations between rental costs and purchase costs, or between rent increases in different geographic areas, this can mean that housing costs for an individual increase significantly more than CPI would suggest, and without them having the option to simply move to somewhere cheaper nearby, hence my statement that an increase in rental costs isn't necessarily reflected in a CPI increase. Housing isn't really discretionary.
The availability of rental assistance etc is a good point that I had failed to take in to consideration.
I'm not necessarily in favour of the current system for determining pension increases, but I'm also wary of compromising the ability of people living with minimal means of support to get by without having to rely on non-government welfare services eg charities.
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pink poodle
気が狂っている男
Howard was either shadow treasurer or leader of the opposition...not treasurer. Now pedantics aside Howard presided over a lengthy period of recession and instability as treasurer during the fraser years. As a tribute to his cowardess, Howard recently went to great lengths to portray that as all being fraser's fault. Damn brain function low and can't recall the ABC/SBS program it was on, but it came just before fraser died.
Everyone does benefit, but the equity of that benefit is disproportionate.
- centralisation of wealth. So those with the wealth already in their control have greater access to it (I can borrow heavily for a home loan due to my equity, a first home buyer has to save while also maintaining their household is the easy example). It also flows onto influencing the decisions on where investments are made in infrastructure and services (Islington has streets filled with pot holes and weeds, the hill has beautiful streets. Technology roll outs etc - it makes sense to invest the money where the people have money to spend on your product/service).
- casualisation of the worm force (as already mentioned) makes it pretty hard for people to plan beyond their current roster/contract.
- rising costs of education (erosion of TAFE etc)
Any more and I'll run out of space on my phone. I'm not talking serfdom.
Genocide...may be a strong way of putting it but Howard was hardly a humanitarian.
- long running attack on medibank/Medicare.
- his position on indigenous australians
- his leadership on refugees
- his government's shameless grabs in east Timor after initially freeing them from Indonesian oppression
- erosion of social welfare and support, including forced labour under work for the dole (seriously...has anyone ever gained anything useful from that?)
- did we forget his wars or the civil leberty restrictions imposed domestically to save us from terror?
Ummm...so the 11 years of economic boom whittled away on tax cuts, handout, and middle class welfare were a future proofing? I don't understand how. Sure I agree that slaying the national debt was good, but...is debt always a bad thing? When managed it is useful. What great infrastructure or new industry was born from rolling the proceeded of the boom forward? Was there amazing improvements to our universities? We did get cash for flag poles. That was good.
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pharmaboy
Eats Squid
On housing costs,I found a report that you might find interesting
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter9002008
Essentially, in the decade to 2006, renters costs increased greater than the CPI, but their income did also. Owner occupies did slightly better ( that's ignoring commonwealth rental assistance)
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter9002008
Essentially, in the decade to 2006, renters costs increased greater than the CPI, but their income did also. Owner occupies did slightly better ( that's ignoring commonwealth rental assistance)
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
Debt is only a bad thing when it's radio rentals taking cash out of centrelink payments in order to pay for a curling wand, or cash converters been simple cunts
Absolutely - those who were employed to run those schemes had a job :dance:
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
Them cash converts...why do they need all my I'd points just to buy my DVD playa?
Good point on the Menzies thing! I was in a red rage...edit I will.
That report does seem to suggest that if an individual's income was indexed to CPI only over that time that their spending power would have been reduced, assuming that their rental costs matched the trend. Of course other things may have got cheaper over that time period which meant this may have been offset, but only if they were things that person was likely to purchase. The mix of goods used to determine the CPI doesn't necessarily reflect the spending patterns of those on particularly low incomes. The person with food and housing costs that have increased by more than CPI in the preceding year isn't helped much by a reduction in the price of televisions and computers.
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
There are different CPIs you can use for different portions of the community, they have them for wage earners, aged pension recipients, low income, self funded retirees , possibly some others. They differ from the std CPI a remarkably small amount.
There is reasonable argument for pensions to be indexed to that specific measure. I have no problem with that at all. I do have a problem with the highest of these 3 when one of them means they might be doing far better than the median working man
So in December - the std CPI was 1.7% but for aged pensioners it was 1.2% - so they did fucking great , a .5% increase in real income for that quarter! because they get the biggest increase out of the 3.
I'm sure most unions would love that kind of deal
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6467.0
These LCI's take note of rental because they are balanced away from interest rates. Rents have always been preferred by the ABS anyway because they try to avoid a positive feedback between interest rates and inflation - that was the worst of the early 80's where inflation was driving wages and wages driving inflation - spirals are something to avoid
Absolutely - the current system of choosing the highest of a number of measures at a specific point means that over time it will increase by more than any of the individual measures and this is not a desirable outcome. The ideal would be to protect those who are vulnerable and not to "reward" them with higher increases than is justified, and no doubt it's difficult to design a system to ensure the former is never compromised without sometimes straying in to the latter. The current system does seem to lean toward the latter in design and no doubt needs to be revised. My hope is that this can be done without over-correction.
scblack
Leucocholic
Haha, except that's a figment of your imagination.
The mining CEO's actually DID write the mining tax on behalf of the World's Greatest Treasurer.
Flow-Rider
Burner
Touché, House insurance in Brisbane has gone up dramatically after the floods and land value in some areas has doubled, I can't wait to get my rates bill. The low interest rates means people are trying to buy not rent, so you have houses that are unrented for large amounts of the year. To get any sort of building tradesperson out to do some work, costs you an arm and a leg, hence the rent prices goes up.
floody
Wheel size expert
On the mining tax, yes, thankyou, we all knew that already.
On the other one, mmmm well let's just see how that pans out, shall we? Hockey endorsing Jordan's suppression of naming the 10 exorbitant profiteers who sent their profits to Thailand, what was that, political altruism? How about the mooting of extending the GST to purchases largely hosted by profit shifting multinationals to increase revenue, would exploring that have been a unilateral/internal policy decision of the Liberals or do ya think just maybe some profiteers might have put their hand up with that one?
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
Of course therecis the advisory committee, made up of private sector interests, the recent (since the large scale redundancies) outsourcing to accounting firms for technical decision making on things like fbt, the defacto outsourcing of a range of audit activities around depreciation of assets (like the schedules you can buy for your investment homes), and the outsourcing of debt collection...just to name a few.
Forgot the various committees and forums the ago facilitates with the private sector that set a pretty heavy influence over a lot of internal decision making and policy setting.
Art Vanderlay
Hourly daily
Lets waste money: Dan Andrews announces in budget: $200 million to revamp Jeff's shed. Really?
John U
MTB Precision
Does it need it?
