pink poodle
Our man in Japan
I always prepoll. In fact I feel like today might be the day...going to get ready to puke!
The election thread - Will the new PM last a full term - who will you futilely vote for?
- Thread starter johnny
- Start date
rangersac
Likes Dirt
I voted last week. Only question asked was "Are you eligible to vote today?". If figure my technically dishonest answer of yes is pretty low down on the list of sins for which I will burn in hell for.
SummitFever
Eats Squid
This is a lie. It affects anyone receiving a dividend who is not paying 30% tax overall. Eg something like $180k total income.
If you want to stop rich people getting this benefit then make it means or asset tested not a broad sweeping change that affects everyone rich and poor alike.
Reallity is it probably doesn't matter for the truly poor and certainly has no impact on the truly rich. Just another example of putting the hurt on what used to be the middle class but is now an increasing class or working poor.
Nambra
Postmeridian
This franking credits thing is becoming a fairly contentious issue isn't it. The half-truths and distortions around it in the press and on the campaign trails certainly isn't helping either. Although I was somewhat supportive of Labor's idea a few pages back in this thread, I've taken the time to understand what it actually does and I've come to the conclusion that it's actually not good policy.
First, the cunning rhetoric that it's a "gift", or "welfare" for the high end of town is just not right. Dividends from shares is just another income stream, just like your wage, interest from term deposits, rental income etc. At tax time, you tally it all up, work out what tax is owing and if you've paid too much or too little tax, you get a refund or tax bill accordingly. If a company that you own part of has already paid tax on it's (your) earnings and pays a franked dividend, that is taken into consideration at tax time - the company has already paid some tax on your behalf. If the dividends weren't franked, then the whole lot is declared in your assessable income and you pay your taxes or get a refund according to your personal circumstances. The point is the whole dividend including franking credits is YOUR money. It is very misleading of Labor to tell us that it is a gift as it was never "their" money - it's just taxes paid on people's behalf, no different to taxes paid by your employer that have been withheld from your salary.
Next, the idea targets the specific means of investing in Australian securities through a SMSF, with a healthy dose of "those with SMSF are all wealthy people who don't need this gift" spin to polarise voters who may not understand that those people who choose to be more hands on with their retirement savings are not necessarily rich, they just want more flexibility and control over their investments. Or they got stung by the industry and retail funds during the GFC and didn't want to trust their life savings to 25 year old economics graduates anymore. In an industry or retail fund, you have members still working and paying tax, as well as retirees drawing income from their nest egg. The fund invests its members money in a variety of ways to produce income and growth, including investing in Australian shares. The fund pays 15% tax on earnings because it has members in "accumulation" phase (still working), so when dividends from those share investments come back, the fund can claim franking credits against the overall tax liability of the fund, for the benefit of all members - including those that are retired. However, for a SMSF in which all members are retired, Labor is saying "you don't have any members paying any tax, so you shouldn't get a refund". The thing is the SMSF members are paying tax - franked dividends is earnings with tax paid on the shareholder's behalf. It was treated as income before you were retired, how does it suddenly not become income when you retire? Further, you would still get the benefits of franking credits as a retiree if you were in a industry fund, but not if you had your own SMSF - that doesn't seem fair, and you can see why some people are painting this as Shorten looking after the union aligned industry funds.
Finally (I know, I'm well past TL;DR), it targets self funded retirees (amongst others) - those that have worked hard, paid their considerable taxes over their working lives, saved and invested wisely and are now able to enjoy the fruits of their labour in retirement and not be a welfare burden by drawing a taxpayer funded government pension.
At any rate, Labor hasn't really outlined the scope or minutiae of this policy, which will be up to the Senate to decide anyway. Not much point arguing over the finer details at this stage.
I'm all for a fairer Australia and that fundamentally we are a relatively wealthy nation that can afford to provide social support to the needy. I just wish we had governments that would stop fucking it up all the time, wasting a fortune delivering inefficient and poorly conceived services with little accountability. Can they ever get past their own self-interest and make intelligent decisions for our long term prosperity? When grass roots Labor and conservative voters don't have faith in their own parties anymore and with the rise of the minors and independents, it doesn't say much for the faith we have in the way this country is being run. Expecting posts from Bull Shitten and Scummo in the fuckwits thread any time now...
First, the cunning rhetoric that it's a "gift", or "welfare" for the high end of town is just not right. Dividends from shares is just another income stream, just like your wage, interest from term deposits, rental income etc. At tax time, you tally it all up, work out what tax is owing and if you've paid too much or too little tax, you get a refund or tax bill accordingly. If a company that you own part of has already paid tax on it's (your) earnings and pays a franked dividend, that is taken into consideration at tax time - the company has already paid some tax on your behalf. If the dividends weren't franked, then the whole lot is declared in your assessable income and you pay your taxes or get a refund according to your personal circumstances. The point is the whole dividend including franking credits is YOUR money. It is very misleading of Labor to tell us that it is a gift as it was never "their" money - it's just taxes paid on people's behalf, no different to taxes paid by your employer that have been withheld from your salary.
Next, the idea targets the specific means of investing in Australian securities through a SMSF, with a healthy dose of "those with SMSF are all wealthy people who don't need this gift" spin to polarise voters who may not understand that those people who choose to be more hands on with their retirement savings are not necessarily rich, they just want more flexibility and control over their investments. Or they got stung by the industry and retail funds during the GFC and didn't want to trust their life savings to 25 year old economics graduates anymore. In an industry or retail fund, you have members still working and paying tax, as well as retirees drawing income from their nest egg. The fund invests its members money in a variety of ways to produce income and growth, including investing in Australian shares. The fund pays 15% tax on earnings because it has members in "accumulation" phase (still working), so when dividends from those share investments come back, the fund can claim franking credits against the overall tax liability of the fund, for the benefit of all members - including those that are retired. However, for a SMSF in which all members are retired, Labor is saying "you don't have any members paying any tax, so you shouldn't get a refund". The thing is the SMSF members are paying tax - franked dividends is earnings with tax paid on the shareholder's behalf. It was treated as income before you were retired, how does it suddenly not become income when you retire? Further, you would still get the benefits of franking credits as a retiree if you were in a industry fund, but not if you had your own SMSF - that doesn't seem fair, and you can see why some people are painting this as Shorten looking after the union aligned industry funds.
Finally (I know, I'm well past TL;DR), it targets self funded retirees (amongst others) - those that have worked hard, paid their considerable taxes over their working lives, saved and invested wisely and are now able to enjoy the fruits of their labour in retirement and not be a welfare burden by drawing a taxpayer funded government pension.
At any rate, Labor hasn't really outlined the scope or minutiae of this policy, which will be up to the Senate to decide anyway. Not much point arguing over the finer details at this stage.
I'm all for a fairer Australia and that fundamentally we are a relatively wealthy nation that can afford to provide social support to the needy. I just wish we had governments that would stop fucking it up all the time, wasting a fortune delivering inefficient and poorly conceived services with little accountability. Can they ever get past their own self-interest and make intelligent decisions for our long term prosperity? When grass roots Labor and conservative voters don't have faith in their own parties anymore and with the rise of the minors and independents, it doesn't say much for the faith we have in the way this country is being run. Expecting posts from Bull Shitten and Scummo in the fuckwits thread any time now...
Scotty T
Likes Bikes and Dirt
The minor issue of franking credits has now been done to death and blown into something important when it really doesn't matter in the big picture, I have one parting thought on the topic. This will affect my in laws. They are retired and receive this refund. It will cost them their airfares for one of the overseas trips they take every year. They've been receiving this refund for over ten years. They won't be eating cereal for dinner. They won't be selling their residence to make up the shortfall. They will be just fine.
Prepolling places are open so no extra cost. Here you get tge 3rd degree followed by the Spanish Inquisition before getting to vote prepoll.
John U
MTB Precision
I’m thinking if they had to open extra polling places due to bigger turnout prior to Election Day there’d be extra cost.
That’s how it fucking starts, man. Cyalume and break beats seem harmless at first but it’s a short slope into fascism and mass FEMA graves from there. People need to wake up and get off the E and back into dope, booze and honest bogan raaawwk on radio stations with announcers called bazza, shazza and dazza.
Scotty T
Likes Bikes and Dirt
From memory there has always been a marijuana party of some form or another, it's always down to how many seats these minor parties can contest that determines whether you'll see them on your ballot paper.
@johnny is that your official policy? It has merit. Particularly for some of my neighbours
pink poodle
Our man in Japan
Fuck I need a shower!!! Accosted by a line of dorks hoping I'd vote for their candidate, should have seen the green hawker's hopeful eyes light up as I arrived on bicycle. She was spared my needless "fuck your candidate" attitude on the walk through their gauntlet. Vote Labor? Fuck off mate, it hasn't worked for us here yet. Vote liberals? Only if there's a brown envelope for me too! Animal matter, vote animal justice? I eat animals mate. Vote Australian conservatives? I'd rather puke on myself...
The local (Newcastle) ballot blew me away. It's a fairly safe Labor seat, but is fielding a mostly conservative range of candidates. I was really surprised by that.
The nsw senate ballot was a nationalistic conservative minefield!!! Is this really representative of the way Australians feel?
Lucky there is a cafe next door...sadly it is really gross.
The local (Newcastle) ballot blew me away. It's a fairly safe Labor seat, but is fielding a mostly conservative range of candidates. I was really surprised by that.
The nsw senate ballot was a nationalistic conservative minefield!!! Is this really representative of the way Australians feel?
Lucky there is a cafe next door...sadly it is really gross.
Calvin27
Eats Squid
I propose we overhaul the system and do blind voting - simple list a 500 character limit of policies only - no mention of candidates or parties. Maybe than people would actually think about policies.
pink poodle
Our man in Japan
Maybe post the map of each party from that abc voting graph as well. With helpful guide lines like "racist cracker" and "totalitarian capitalist" next to the candidates.
hifiandmtb
Sphincter beanie
Yeah, but do you like the live export industry?
That's just about the only thing I've decided to vote for...
Zaf
Gearbox Frother
rangersac
Likes Dirt
Interesting. My local seat is safe Labour (Franklin, TAS).
House of Reps: Five candidates - three conservative
Tas Senate: 44 candidates. Four belong to what I'd consider single issue parties (HEMP, Animal Justice). Four independents so hard to determine, although my opinion is two are conservative and two are progressive (for want of a better term). So let's say 36 candidates. Out of that I'd identify 20 conservative candidates, so fairly balanced.