The stats are out into deaths and injuries in Australian sports

The Duckmeister

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
ozzybmx said:
I've had 2 friends crash in the last week, one with an elbow that looks like it went through a blender and a bit of other skin loss on a few body parts the other with a broken leg in 2 places, both with damaged helmets and zero head injuries.
Both in hospital, one for a week and the other 4 days and counting.
Get a helmet on that head @safreek ;)
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The dingbat media would likely still report that the limb injuries could have been worse in the absense of a foam hat....
 
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johnny

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
I used to fish and really enjoyed it. But I looked into the idea that fish don't feel pain and there's not any proper science behind that position (which people understandably want to believe in).

The potential that I was putting a creature through such brutal and intense suffering like that made me stop doing it - haven't cast a line since. I don't judge people who do go fishing*, but I wouldn't put a hook through a cow's face, drag it across the paddock and then slowly suffocate it to death. So I'm not going to do it to a fish either.

* I do get frustrated with people who imply that it's stupid to even consider whether fishing is torture, though. They're often the same people whom do not understand the proper meaning of "begging the question" too.
 
LPG

LPG

likes thicc birds
johnny said:
I used to fish and really enjoyed it. But I looked into the idea that fish don't feel pain and there's not any proper science behind that position (which people understandably want to believe in).

The potential that I was putting a creature through such brutal and intense suffering like that made me stop doing it - haven't cast a line since. I don't judge people who do go fishing*, but I wouldn't put a hook through a cow's face, drag it across the paddock and then slowly suffocate it to death. So I'm not going to do it to a fish either.

* I do get frustrated with people who imply that it's stupid to even consider whether fishing is torture, though. They're often the same people whom do not understand the proper meaning of "begging the question" too.
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Imagine catching possums and ducks with a fishing hook in a piece of bread/ bait, unhooking the animal after a photo and letting it free and calling it a sport. People would be up in arms for torturing animals.

I am all for people fishing and hunting. I'd rather more wild places with parts of the population being killed for food than land cleared for farmland. I just don't like the injuring for fun.
 
The Duckmeister

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
Flow-Rider said:
I'd say they're talking about competition game fishing, where they generally target large fish they don't or can't eat.
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I wouldn't define any form of fishing as a sport - the fish haven't been told they're in any type of competition, even if it's only against small-minded bogans.

Like @LPG above, I'm OK with people fishing or hunting if it's for the purpose of getting a food supply, but not if it's purely done for the "thrill" of the catch, harming the unknowiing victim.

Then somewhere in the middle is the killing ("They" like to use the softer-sounding term "culling") of invasive pest species. I see it as a kind of noble hypocricy - on one side It's trying to remove unnatural inhabitant critters that damage the original ecosystem, but on the flipside it's perpetrated by the most invasive and environmentally-destructive species that ever evolved - Homo sapiens, the modern human.
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
The Duckmeister said:
I wouldn't define any form of fishing as a sport - the fish haven't been told they're in any type of competition, even if it's only against small-minded bogans.

Like @LPG above, I'm OK with people fishing or hunting if it's for the purpose of getting a food supply, but not if it's purely done for the "thrill" of the catch, harming the unknowiing victim.

Then somewhere in the middle is the killing ("They" like to use the softer-sounding term "culling") of invasive pest species. I see it as a kind of noble hypocricy - on one side It's trying to remove unnatural inhabitant critters that damage the original ecosystem, but on the flipside it's perpetrated by the most invasive and environmentally-destructive species that ever evolved - Homo sapiens, the modern human.
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I don't participate in game fishing and I don't make the classes up but hunting and game fishing are two different things. The whole idea of game fishing is to generally catch and release without trying to harm the fish, and it can't be too traumatic for some fish breeds because they get caught 5 times over. It's how the fisheries keep an eye on species with tags and locations.

There are always people doing the wrong thing and or don't have an understanding of how to handle fish for release. The by-catch with trawler nets is a lot worse than anyone line fishing recreationally, they catch and keep undersized fish and they just about take everything. The catch gets left in the sun for hours and lot it is only good for cat food. Things like shark fishing should be banned for many reasons, you can't keep a lot of sharks due to size and or a protected species due to numbers, they are a fish that many can't release properly and they come to grief quite often.
 
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johnny

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Flow-Rider said:
I don't participate in game fishing and I don't make the classes up but hunting and game fishing are two different things. The whole idea of game fishing is to generally catch and release without trying to harm the fish, and it can't be too traumatic for some fish breeds because they get caught 5 times over. It's how the fisheries keep an eye on species with tags and locations.

There are always people doing the wrong thing and or don't have an understanding of how to handle fish for release. The by-catch with trawler nets is a lot worse than anyone line fishing recreationally, they catch and keep undersized fish and they just about take everything. The catch gets left in the sun for hours and lot it is only good for cat food. Things like shark fishing should be banned for many reasons, you can't keep a lot of sharks due to size and or a protected species due to numbers, they are a fish that many can't release properly and they come to grief quite often.
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I don't understand the reasoning here: it can't be too traumatic for some fish breeds because they get caught 5 times over. Do you believe that the fish knows that it is eating bait rather than normal food when it bites on the line?

Fully agree with the second paragraph. I hope that we can find a sustainable and humane way to do fish farming. I've worked with a few complex systems analysts that were looking at the oceans and they were losing their hair over the way the oceans are going (climate change included).
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
johnny said:
I don't understand the reasoning here: it can't be too traumatic for some fish breeds because they get caught 5 times over. Do you believe that the fish knows that it is eating bait rather than normal food when it bites on the line?

Fully agree with the second paragraph. I hope that we can find a sustainable and humane way to do fish farming. I've worked with a few complex systems analysts that were looking at the oceans and they were losing their hair over the way the oceans are going (climate change included).
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it can't be too traumatic for some fish breeds because they get caught 5 times over.

It doesn't seem to kill the fish in many instances when people handle the fish correctly and the fish still have a chance to reproduce, it wouldn't be much different from being chased by a bigger fish that wants to take a bite of them. Game fishers don't generally target protected species.

The damage they do to large schools of fish compared to fishing trawlers is minuscule, and the fisheries use the size and tagging info for future monitoring of species. A lot of the game fish that they target aren't edible due to the size and ciguatera poisoning, they also use light fishing gear that generally breaks. I'd be more worried about people drinking their six-pack of beer by the water and then throwing their plastic bags in the water or multinational national companies discharging pollutants into the water.
 
johnny

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Flow-Rider said:
it can't be too traumatic for some fish breeds because they get caught 5 times over.

It doesn't seem to kill the fish in many instances when people handle the fish correctly and the fish still have a chance to reproduce, it wouldn't be much different from being chased by a bigger fish that wants to take a bite of them. Game fishers don't generally target protected species.

The damage they do to large schools of fish compared to fishing trawlers is minuscule, and the fisheries use the size and tagging info for future monitoring of species. A lot of the game fish that they target aren't edible due to the size and ciguatera poisoning, they also use light fishing gear that generally breaks. I'd be more worried about people drinking their six-pack of beer by the water and then throwing their plastic bags in the water or multinational national companies discharging pollutants into the water.
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It may not kill the fish, but the torture the creature may experience by having its face impaled on a hook and then dragged through the water by a hook in its face is unimaginable. That's my concern: what kind of suffering is being caused in the name of fun?

For me it's not an either or thing - I'm concerned about the suffering of the individual creature as well as the destruction of ecosystems and the broader environment.
 
Jabubu

Jabubu

let you google that for me
I'm not a big fan of fishing regardless, but on the other hand, can it be any worse for the fish than being eaten by another predator?
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
johnny said:
It may not kill the fish, but the torture the creature may experience by having its face impaled on a hook and then dragged through the water by a hook in its face is unimaginable. That's my concern: what kind of suffering is being caused in the name of fun?

For me it's not an either or thing - I'm concerned about the suffering of the individual creature as well as the destruction of ecosystems and the broader environment.
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It's no different from animal cruelty suffered from commercial animal farming in the name of making large profits, things could be done differently to minimise the suffering. Some of these animals suffer their whole life not just 30 minutes. Also, extinction and displacement of flora and fauna from urbanisation, nothing says you have to breed and overpopulate, the hill of morality can become very high if one is not careful.
 
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