Thoughts on first aid kits?/snale bite in bush

mickpc

Squid
I was talking with a friend about the possibility of getting tagged out in the bush by a snake.

Firstly, what's the chances of surviving if you do get bitten (by accident) on your bike, seeing as usually your heart is going pretty quick ect (I'm no doctor)?

Also what sort of first aid equipment would you take? I have a camelback so space is not an issue.

Mick
 

mickpc

Squid
Yes I am tending to think your right, how many here have ran across the old joe blake in the bush?

Mick
 
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elliotdhmcgeary

Likes Bikes and Dirt
If riding in known snake area why not carry a broad crepe bandage
+1. Applying pressure to it would be the best thing you could do until you can get further medical treatment. I'd say only carry the basic first aid things in your camelpack, but carry a complete first aid kit in your car (if you're driving to where you ride). Then you'll be covered for whatever injury you may do (Y)
 

spongebob

Likes Dirt
Hey Mick plenty of Aussie MTBers see/and or ride over snakes regularly. I see snakes most XC rides. I really try not to ride over them as I assume this would be an unpleasant death for them mostly. Just take the advice above .
As for your chance of dying after envenomation - very unlikely with proper 1st aid. There are many 100's of envenomations/year in Aus but only several deaths on average.
 

mickpc

Squid
Bandage, check
Phone, check

Although I still a little worried as I do most of my riding in the state park, and even this weather I have seen recent snake tracks, haven't been riding out there long enough to run into one though, but it will happen.

Mick
 

agoer

Likes Dirt
The first Fling i did had a "must carry" rule, and to Huw's credit i think he is about the only event that asks for you to carry a small first aid kit (although i never see the elite guys with them ;) ).

It contains a crepe bandage 6 panadols some micro pore tape some gauze dressings and some band aids. i have these in a small snap lock sandwhich bag, and has stayed in my Camelback ever since 9except the other day when i needed a band aide for an unbikerelated incident).

G
 

Ridenparadise

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I am bad for not having a bandage in my kit, but the thin bungee cord on the Camelback can be used to make a very effective lymph occlusive "bandage". Just don't pull it tight. Triangular bandages (slings) take up little space and can be used to bandage and immobilise limbs. Immobility is really important.

I've seen heaps of snakes while riding, run over a couple in unavoidable circumstances and had a few strike at the bike or me. Mostly at pace there's little chance of them getting you, but in slow dips/corners it could be nastier. Most memorable was on a ride from Byron Bay along the disused rail line out to the highway. I tried to sit at about 20kph, but it was a bumpy ride even on full sus. About 300m from the highway overpass I saw a coiled snake between the rails. It was uncoiling and crossing the right rail. Good, no need to slow down even though it was going to be close. In the last 10m I saw the whole snake, a huge king brown. The head was 2.5-3m down the embankment when I avoided the last of the tail between the rails. It did not like this and swung back on itself striking really fast. It did hit the bike somewhere on the rear triangle. I just hit the gas. I had no idea such a big snake was so mobile. Sure made the walk up through waist high grass to the road a heavy breather.
 

kwikee

Likes Dirt
Remember, too, that because a snake strikes, it's not necessarily going to envenomate if it gets you. Venom takes time and energy to build up, so they don't want to waste it! Snakes generally only want to put venom into what they can eat, so even if they hit you, you will probably still never have symptoms of envenomation. They often sit up and maybe strike a couple of times to scare off whatever they feel threatened by. It's when they are cornered or injured that you have a problem.
I'm no snake expert, just what I've been told by snake handlers at various places.
 

jham66

Likes Dirt
A quick revision of the venomous snakes in the area you are riding is always a good idea. Just google "venomous snakes Brisbane(or other area)" and become familiar. My wife told me a story the other day of following a small brown coloured snake though a pedestrian tunnel and giving it the occasional prod with a rolled up newspaper (!!?) to help it to a safe area (What tha!!!!). Even one day after hatching a Brown snake can kill!!!!!
 

mtb101

Likes Bikes and Dirt
this is an interesting topic having seen 3 tigers this season, chances of getting bit are very low unless you try and catch the snake, fall on it or generally do a man vs wild and antagonise it - although I hear snakes taste good like chicken.

But if you were bit, and you are carrying a mobile (with reception?), how do you describe your location to a 000 operator - remembering that they need access via a road/track? Obviously best to ride with someone and they would get help while you wait, if you are on your own ... do you move to a more public spot or stay put? Yes you would use your jersey to create a restriction around bite - but time is crucial here. Will 000 accept GPS bearings? Think they do - so that could help to pinpoint you.

Of course the biggest risk for us as mtbers is crashing into a tree I suspect or falling off and breaking something. So ride within your skills and evaluate risk i.e. is the risk worth the fun? If so, go, if not there's always another day.
 

goldman

Squid
+1 on the gauze bandage and knowing how to use it. You can also use your pump to immobilize the limb (leg most likely).

I have also read that even if you are bitten it is unusual for a snake to envenomate a rider however with proper first aid you can buy yourself time to get help. It is better safe than sorry and a bandage doesn't weigh all that much!
 

Brasco_Designs

Likes Dirt
First of all - go do a good first aid course if you have not done one, truly invaluable. Especially when it concerns possible injuries such as spinal. But that’s another topic.

Its true that a snake may not envenomate you when they bite, but I would personally not like to risk it. For the sake of carrying a small amount of first aid supplies you can pretty much guarantee that you will live. From the first aid courses I have done over the years I remember hearing somewhere - no idea if it’s true/factual or just hearsay - that you have about 2 days for evacuation if everything is done right. So I would assume you would have plenty of time to get help, even though I don't know where you ride or live.

You will need enough crepe bandages to cover an entire leg, as this is probably where you will be bitten. You may need to carry three or more. Compression is the most important thing, then immobilisation. The venom travels via the lymphatic system not the blood stream, and even though you may have an elevated heart rate from riding I would not be to worried about that. If it was me and I had just been bitten by a snake, my heart rate would be racing anyway. Then it’s off to the hospital as quick as you can, with the least amount of moving as you can.

This is just my thinking for work, but its probably a good idea to know the local access roads in case of an emergency. Or better yet if you have gps give them your coordinates. You would be surprised where an ambulance can go.

Another point to add is that it might be a good idea to stop and check yourself out if you have run over or next to a snake. Snake bites can be painless and as someone has already pointed out, wicked fast. You may not even know you have been bitten, except for the tell tale puncture marks.

It all depends on how comfortable you are in the area you ride as to how far you go with it. Some people don’t carry anything some people carry everything. I don't judge as it’s a personal choice. I really like the suggestion of carrying the bare minimum on the bike and have an extensive one in the car if you drove to the riding site. You can do a lot with some triangular and crepe bandages.

But the most important thing is to know how to effectively use what you are carrying.
 

Misplaced

Formerly Unfit
Right, can anyone definitively answer this?

In compression bandaging a bite, do you

A - start at the wound and go down, then up.
B - Start below the wound, go up, then down
c - Start at the the wound, go up then down
D - Any of the above, it makes no difference

Reason I ask is I've googled it and come up with 3 factsheets from 3 different 'reliable' sources that have the above variances.
 

JoshyC

Likes Dirt
Right, can anyone definitively answer this?

In compression bandaging a bite, do you

A - start at the wound and go down, then up.
B - Start below the wound, go up, then down
c - Start at the the wound, go up then down
D - Any of the above, it makes no difference

Reason I ask is I've googled it and come up with 3 factsheets from 3 different 'reliable' sources that have the above variances.
Start at the wound and go up, then back down if you've got extra bandages is the way I was taught.

Another little tip aswell, put a bandaid over the snake bite before putting the bandage on so they can identify the venom off the bandaid at the hospital if needed
 
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Brasco_Designs

Likes Dirt
Bandage technique

On the proper way to bandage - I have been taught multiple ways (by the same first aid company in different years) and it appears to be what ever is in fashion at the time.

The only common feature was to go down to the tip of the limb and then back up. The bandaid idea is a good one, I have never heard that before, its usually taught that you start at the bite site, work your way down and then back up. By starting at the bite site its easy for the hospital staff to try and identify the venom as they know the exact place it was. In my mind the bandaid would be even better or you can mark an "X" with some chain grease? I was taught that the down then up way was something to do with the way things travel through the lymphatic system. But I would probably say as long as its compressed, you have marked the bite site for venom analysis and get them to a hospital as fast as you can then you'd be golden.

You do need to cover the whole limb - hence carrying a few bandages, especially important for riders who tend to have more developed leg muscles.

This is a great topic - and a great tip about the 112 number, though it doesn't actually work everywhere. There are still some black spots in this country where nothing but a satellite phone will work.

"If you are using a GSM mobile phone in Australia, you will be connected to police, fire or ambulance when you dial Triple Zero (000). As GSM is an international standard, the international emergency call number 112 will also connect you to the Emergency Call Service. 112 can be dialled:

In any area covered by the GSM network - when you are out of your service provider's coverage area but are in another carrier's mobile phone network coverage area, your call will be carried on the other carrier’s network; from anywhere overseas where there is GSM service coverage - the call will be automatically transferred to that country's emergency number; and without having to key in a Personal Identification Number (PIN) to unlock your keypad. In many new GSM handsets, Triple Zero (000) is programmed into the firmware as an emergency number. In these handsets, Triple Zero (000) provides the same features as 112, that is, the call will use any available GSM network to reach the Emergency Call Service, regardless of whose network you are accessing. For this reason Triple Zero (000) should be dialled first.


Basically if the area has GSM coverage from any provider you can call 112 - even if it’s not your provider. If there is no GSM coverage then your mobile is useless.
 
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Hugor

Likes Dirt
I think you've all missed the point here.
This thread is about snail bites.
Can't remember ever being bit by one.
If you saw one lying across the trail would you bunny hop it or ride over it?
 

Mr Pants

skanky media ho
Do a 1st aid course

Learning stuff off the internetz is all fine but the best money you will spend on MTB'ing is:

A) a 1st aid course - http://www.adventuremedic.com.au/ specialise in 1st aid courses for outdoors people. Highly recommended! Courses in Sydney and Brisbane.

B) Ambulance insurance - An evacuation by chopper can cost quite a bit. Two of my friends didn't regret paying for it a bit... they regretted crashing though....
 
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