Trail building etiquette. No respect.

[Andrei]

I would like to reach out to my fellow burners and get some opinions on how to deal with people not respecting trail builders and their work.

We have been tinkering with an old trail for a couple of years now,mostly just general maintenance and upkeep. About 3-4 months ago we decided it was necessary to realign parts of the trail to improve in part drainage and also to improve the flow.

We have a great crew of up to 22 riders with about 6-7 of us doing the majority of the work. Unfortunately we don't have a lot of hill to work with which limits what we can do, but its become a fun and fast flow track.

About a week or two ago a couple of new riders have turned up out of the blue. Never introduced themselves, just rode. Then they decided to start adding and changing parts of the trail including building out of pallets.

When we confronted them about, they just plain denied it and got pretty aggressive.

The piece of land we ate on is used by a fair few riders of all abilities and riding styles. We really try to accommodate everyone and at the same time not piss off the rest of the non riders who also use the bush.

So how can we deal with these 'intruders'?

 

[bikesarefun]

The term "shovel justice" comes to mind.

If you plan on adopting role of trail crew, be prepared to defend yourselves in that role. Trail builders often have a shit time.

 

[XYGTHO]

Gee that's a tuff one. Are you a club? which has the rights over this specific part of land? If so then you have the right to what does and doesn't happen. Put signage up saying trails have to be to MTBA standards, designed etc. Let them know they are welcome to join in on build days (if you don't already organise a build day and hopefully get them along) and get there idea's thoughts from them so they can have some input?

If it is someone in particulars land they should have a say? Rather than make enemies invite them to help, or ride with you. If you get them offside probably will make it pretty hard.

 

[Dozer]

building out of pallets.

A pallet has no place on a bike trail. If you use it then you're just taking short cuts and don't have much of an idea what you're doing.
You need to figure out who has the permit on occupancy on the land and if it's a club then you need to make sure that the only building and maintenance on that trail is done by club members and volunteers working with club members.
If it isn't under a permit then tell the other clowns to fuck off and don't be polite. You can't pussy foot around it, you need people like that out of your scene as they are just too much trouble. You'll worry about people getting revenge etc but weather the storm, they give up in the end. I've been down this path a few times and playing hard ball is the only way to get through to these dickheads. It sounds like you are part of the majority group and it doesn't sound like these other twits are interested in getting on board so get them to move on and build their shit somewhere else. Remind them that joining the local club gains them a voice and some credibility to actually learn how to build decent trails and the funds they raise for the club can only better the scene.

 

[hifiandmtb]

I've disposed of pallets on my local trails before, no new ones have turned back up.

I think that whoever put them there got the hint...

 

[DeBloot]

Unfortunately Andrei, you need to take it upon yourselves
There's no 'higher authority' where you are, and they could even argue they can do what they want
There is generally no point enforcing things by mouth because outright vandalism could be the result
So I think you need to let actions speak rather than words

Organise to take out any pallets and get rid of them (as you may do with other rubbish)
if you don't like the parts that are changed, organise yourselves to change it back
Brushmat anything they've done that don't like or change it to suit the environment and sustainability
Move heavy logs onto anything that you want to block
If they say anything, do what they did and plead ignorance - 'Don't know about it mate. Someone obviously doesn't like it.'

In short, make life difficult for them and more of a PITA
They sound like young blokes and will soon get over it and move on

 

[Ridenparadise]

It is amazing what people feel justified in doing. Lucky for us we do have the land manager onside and can play the official "you will be fined" ball. However, nothing stops people poaching the trails we are working on, regardless of weather etc. It is a PITA - no time to help, but plenty to hurt.

 

[hazza6542]

Our age group has kids under ten riding here and smooth flow gaps (~4 foot) got turned into boost hard lippy shit. 13 people out the other week all loving the new alignment and these guys still build new shit without discussing it with any other riders. After denying they built anything and then accusing Drei and I of swearing at them (not once) later we hear from another rider confirming it was them. I think the biggest issue is no new lines are being constructed to brush mat or remove, rather changing the existing stuff which is shit hot after months of dedication from a huge crew into huck to flat shit :frusty:

I want to direct them to ride our big jump trail for those kinds of features but they've fucked around with our jumps there too I found out tonight, making them (drum roll......) shit.

 

[DeBloot]

Yeah - Ok. Dumb fucktards with no respect and can't take a hint

I would then revert to Dozers suggestions
Subtlety is pointless
Unfortunately some retards only respond to intimidation
Might have to get some of us upper mountains bogans down there with our baseball bats lol

It does suck though these shit heads ruining your good work and then treat you like dickheads
Let them know they're not welcome in any and every way you can think of

 

[Dozer]

Our age group has kids under ten riding here and smooth flow gaps (~4 foot) got turned into boost hard lippy shit. 13 people out the other week all loving the new alignment and these guys still build new shit without discussing it with any other riders. After denying they built anything and then accusing Drei and I of swearing at them (not once) later we hear from another rider confirming it was them. I think the biggest issue is no new lines are being constructed to brush mat or remove, rather changing the existing stuff which is shit hot after months of dedication from a huge crew into huck to flat shit :frusty:

I want to direct them to ride our big jump trail for those kinds of features but they've fucked around with our jumps there too I found out tonight, making them (drum roll......) shit.

You may need to take another approach now and tell them that you've had enough of them ruining your stuff. Tell them that you have a mate who works for the company that owns and manages the land and there are now motion detect cameras recording what they are doing. I've had to use that system before and put some f=fairly harsh threats towards a group of pit bike riders. They left real quick.
If you go down the motion detection line (obviously you won't have cameras, you're just geeing them up) and they say you need signs saying you're filming and you need permission etc then just remind them that they need the same permission to work on the trails. They haven't got that so they should take head of your advice and fuck off.

 

[scblack]

If you go down the motion detection line (obviously you won't have cameras, you're just geeing them up) and they say you need signs saying you're filming and you need permission etc then just remind them that they need the same permission to work on the trails. They haven't got that so they should take head of your advice and fuck off.

I do believe in a public place you can record film all you wish - but cannot record the SOUND without their permission. Not quite sure though.

 

[Andrei]

At the moment we just have to wait and see what happens. I have a feeling that they are not really into riding that much and won't be around for long. You would never see these guys at a race or a build day, and I seriously doubt they are on this forum. Not really mountain bikers in my opinion. Everyone on here knows how hard it is to get good trails happening . no matter what they do we will get rid of it or fix it.

 

[Ridenparadise]

That's the go. Destroy all their work and rebuild to appropriate standard.

 

[hazza6542]

No new stuff today, all running fine, I'll just head out every afternoon and check.

 

[GeurieMTB]

I do believe in a public place you can record film all you wish - but cannot record the SOUND without their permission. Not quite sure though.

Totally correct. You can record all the photos you want under the act (Workplace Surveillance Act(2005) - NSW) without signage, you can also record video but only with the sound off.

 

[C.H.B]

That's the go. Destroy all their work and rebuild to appropriate standard.

that's the best way ive found,on our trails we regularly find new dodgey work around school holiday times we just get rid of it

 

[no1boardbreaker]

Pretty sad really that people dont stop to appreciate the hundreds of hours the builders put in. We too are having issues with outoftowners changing ramps so they are like a dirt jump park. Several jumps have even been concrete rendered. Im not kidding. Time to act. Tomorrow.

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

 

[hazza6542]

We concreted some of ours just so they stopped getting changed.

 

[pink poodle]

Pretty sad really that people dont stop to appreciate the hundreds of hours the builders put in. We too are having issues with outoftowners changing ramps so they are like a dirt jump park. Several jumps have even been concrete rendered. Im not kidding. Time to act. Tomorrow.

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

Take a leaf from he surfing world's "locals only" attitude...a heavily keyed car and a few flat tyres will leave a clear message.

 

[thecat]

Even on official trails with big, clear signs saying no unauthorised trail work we have people cutting C lines around the hard bits, bypassing the trail armouring and dragging sediment into the main line.... Some people are just fuctards