Trail proposal for comment

[nimrodx]

I thought I would start a new thread to cover this.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l596/nimrodx/existingplus.png

This is a map of existing crebra, turkey, rollercat, (jubilee trail, bridle trail, Hervey st for reference),
with added conector between crebra and rollercat -- and more significantly loops joinging the turkey crebra junction
to crebra further down hill. I am not completely convinced that the contours are correct on these maps --
but they can be ground truthed. These loops and added connectors minimise steep sections by following contours.

More to come.

Matt

 

[Gripo]

I thought I would start a new thread to cover this.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l596/nimrodx/existingplus.png

This is a map of existing crebra, turkey, rollercat, (jubilee trail, bridle trail, Hervey st for reference),
with added conector between crebra and rollercat -- and more significantly loops joinging the turkey crebra junction
to crebra further down hill. I am not completely convinced that the contours are correct on these maps --
but they can be ground truthed. These loops and added connectors minimise steep sections by following contours.

More to come.

Matt

Matt et al......

Just wondering if it's worth while before going any further with trail development that the TRC/TMBC approach Glen Jacobs from World Trails or someone of similar experience for their professional input.

Surely, a couple days (sponsored by TRC/MTBA/State Govt Sports & Rec) of a professional trail builder surveying the park would be a worthwhole investment.

As great as the Turkey Trail project has been (props to Pete/Matt) it only a marginal as an up hill ride......so before anyone invests more of their free time, I think it's appropriate that some professional consultation is sort to try and get a trail to the top of Harvey St. and what's feasibly possible in Jubilee Park with the layout of the land.

John

 

[nimrodx]

Gripper,

I have to say, I'd certainly welcome getting his help and working with him to get something we could be confident in. It is all a matter
of whether the executive think it would be money well spent. From my point of view, if it cost $1000, it would be -- if it was going to cost
$5000, it probably would not be.

Matt et al......

Just wondering if it's worth while before going any further with trail development that the TRC/TMBC approach Glen Jacobs from World Trails or someone of similar experience for their professional input.

Surely, a couple days (sponsored by TRC/MTBA/State Govt Sports & Rec) of a professional trail builder surveying the park would be a worthwhole investment.

As great as the Turkey Trail project has been (props to Pete/Matt) it only a marginal as an up hill ride......so before anyone invests more of their free time, I think it's appropriate that some professional consultation is sort to try and get a trail to the top of Harvey St. and what's feasibly possible in Jubilee Park with the layout of the land.

John

I'm not going to wait on this though. I'm going to keep putting something together, and if we could get someone's help like this to tune it up that would be great.
I think it is worth bringing it up at the next meeting though.

By the way, I walked through some of the proposed track on Sunday, and I am going to make changes on this proposal and give my reasons later this week. Mainly
the steam crossing is nasty (at the centre of the boomerang of loops), so I will redesign to cross it only once, but still have a series of nice loops.

Matt

 

[SCHOEY]

Hi Schoey,

I started a new thread on this:
http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/sho...il-proposal-for-comment&p=2443803#post2443803

The map there is much more complete.
Have a look and let me know what you think.
I believe the contours are ten vertical metres apart. So I need to have a look at how bad it is on the ground.
If we can't stuff some loops in here, we might need to get permission to cross to the other side of the fire trail.
Alternatively, the link from Crebra to the rollercat could be made into more of a feature with big loops. THe slope
between crebra and the rollercat is much less than the area I have put these loops. Check out the map in the other thread.
Matt

From the look of the new map, I can see the contours are 50m apart, which i can now understand why you have 5 runs of trails between contours. IMO, There still looks to be a lot of trail in a small area. If we are to think of a full XC race loop, after climbing to the top of the turkey trail, i think most people would like to be greeted with a nice long down hill run (to get the HR down), without too much pedally stuff & tight switchbacks. I cant remember the exact specifics, but when Rollercat was plotted we had to try and keep a distance of 20m between trail wherever possible (Ryan will more than likely remember). This was a condition i believe council had made so that trail was not visible from one leg to another & discouraged shortcutting. We tried to apply this on the Turkey trail aswell but due to the slope of the terrain, was a lot harder.

Matt et al......
Just wondering if it's worth while before going any further with trail development that the TRC/TMBC approach Glen Jacobs from World Trails or someone of similar experience for their professional input.
Surely, a couple days (sponsored by TRC/MTBA/State Govt Sports & Rec) of a professional trail builder surveying the park would be a worthwhole investment.
As great as the Turkey Trail project has been (props to Pete/Matt) it only a marginal as an up hill ride......so before anyone invests more of their free time, I think it's appropriate that some professional consultation is sort to try and get a trail to the top of Harvey St. and what's feasibly possible in Jubilee Park with the layout of the land.
John

A little closer to home, we could look at getting Bill from two wheel promotions to give his input on the project. You'll see if you look at the link, Bill has been involved in the design and construction of the Wyaralong Dam project (Mt Joyce), & has built plenty of other great trails over the years. Alternativley, our local WC DH & 4X rider has been doing some secret XC training & may want to put his stamp on it?

Getting up to Harvey St i think will be tough no matter how you do it, it's steep.

 

[Road Rage Ryan]

Hmmm interesting points by all but agree with Jason that it does not matter who builds the track to harvey st it will be steep. I think Turkey is a good example of what can be done and actually think it is a very easy ride up given the alternative. The last part to harvey st has much sharper contours which will result in massive cut in's into the side of the mountain which will likely erode over time.

Regarding Jason's comment's on trail width, 20 metres use to be the standard exactly for the reason he gave. I think the flow needs to be open on the next section and not too tight with long sweeping sections which is how we intially intended it. The reason simply being again what Jason said about recovery during a race. Please remember the trail was approved to allow us to facilitate a race of national standards in mind to promote Toowoomba as a mountain bike mecca.

 

[Derelikt Man]

What i want to see in Jubilee park is just a trail with like some really flowy table top jumps sort of like aline in Canada.

 

[nimrodx]

Hi All,

Thanks for the comments.

The drawing has changed, but have not had time to complete it yet.
By the way, the minor contours (barely visible) are 10m apart -- that is what I was refering
to in my email. The majors are 50m.

We walked critical bits out last week -- and quite a bit has to change.

A couple of responses:
...As I have drawn it, it is almost entirely down-hill. I'm aiming to for a cruisy, flowy, fast recovery.

...Lots of track in a small area -- yep, that is what I am aiming for. If the council want us to exploit the area this side of the Frenzy
there is actually limited space where we could fit substantial extra trail. If we don't use it carefully we will only get a couple of
extra km's and that is it. However -- compare the length of each of those loops to the length of the Turkey -- they are much, much longer.
They are the same order of length as each loop of the rollercat.
...I just measured the minimum distance between these proposed tracks, and bar one point -- it is all 20m or more!! Just luck. However, I
have to say that 20 m between loops is not at all necessary. The turkey
trail loops within a few metres on most loops. I can't see anyone taking a shortcut (through lantana?). Also, what would be the point?
I think that reflects a total failure to understand why people ride on single track.
You don't even realise you are so close to the next loop most of the time.
I think we could demonstrate that point if required.

I think there is no benefit in raising that issue again unless council brings it up.
They have obviously not been concerned by the closeness of loops on the Turkey.

Will try to get the amended proposal mapped and up on the forum.
I'll try to put up a graph of elevations along the path too -- ensure we are getting the
downhill recovery aspect satisfied (I agree, it is what is necessary).

Matt

 

[nimrodx]

Update for comment

Hi All,

I have modified it according to what Pete and I looked at last week.
I have also added another track possibility. I call these tracks the Noob Tubes.

Noob Tube 1:

Noob 1 from the satellite:

Noob Tube 2 : othe side of fire trail (could be negotiated. You don't know till you ask).

view of Noob Tube 2 from satellite:

Right. What do these have in common?
Firstly, both are looped trails designed to have very little uphill (Noob 1 is effectively substantially downhill
Noob 2 is effectively flat). They are looped to maximise the use of space to get some decent distance in.
Noob 1 covers about 4 km. They follow the contours to eliminate steep sections.

What is different? I think Noob 2 is in a better position to be utilised by noobs. Trail building may be easier too (close to gate, contours less close together).
It may not be as much fun. They are in fact quite different. Why not look for approval for both?

Noob 1 links from Crebra (green marker) to the unused firetrail that leads up the Northern ridge, then snakes its way beside this to meet up with
the rollercat (red marker). It also runs very close to crebra trail (Pete -- where we thought it would be easy to
take a run off crebra before the first substantial climb on crebra) -- so it lends itself to being built in two sections.
First the section from crebra down to the rollercat, then the main body of loops.

If we got both of these trail loops, we would have 7 or 8 extra km -- with the straight sections, would aim to get some optional table tops. Probably noob 1 would suit this sort
of application better.

I have made one trip to the show grounds with Steve to look at sites (before the council meeting). We need to make another trip there to map in possibilities, then I will get them up here.

Check it out and let me know how you would improve them. Or alternatively, let me know if you agree with them.

Kind regards

Matt

 

[SCHOEY]

Hi Matt,
Can you add Rollercat & Turkey trail with these proposed trails on one map? I follow it, but might help others visualise the big picture better.

If you need a separate GXP for these i think ive got one of each.

 

[aussie pete]

It would be good to see the NT1 track made as free flowing and fun as possible with optional b lines, jumps, log rides and other features along the length of it, after the slog up the Gobbler a track with the above features would be great.

 

[nimrodx]

Jubillee trails proposed and existing

Well, as requested I have placed these two (or three, depending how you count them) trails
on a map with the existing firetrails, Rollercat, Turkey, and Crebra.

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l596/nimrodx/trackplanJubilee.png

Now, I recognise that this is not a very satisfactory looking map, but my software is *very* limited.
I can't display more than one gps "track" or "route" on a photo or contour map at a time. I could
use GRASS GIS to do it, but don't have a digital elevation map for it, so there is no point (it would
not look any better than in this software).

However, if we can agree to a plan, I can give the data for the proposed tracks to council, and they can
plot it up nicely for us.

Anyway, suggestions on tracks welcome.
I hope to bring get some agreement on at least some tracks at the meeting next week.

Kind regards,

Matt Redding

 

[nimrodx]

Final comments

Hi All,

I'm off to the showgrounds with Jason tomorrow to clear up the proposal for
that location -- then map it Monday night.

The meeting for the tral proposal with council is on Tuesday at 4:00.

So I'd like to ask if anyone can suggest 1 more track to put into this location.

Ryan, you indicated that there was a previous track that had been built but has now gone to ruin. Where was it,
and should we seek to resurrect it? Did it join up with sandstone?

I've been racking my brain to see where else I can fit something else. There are quite a few locations, but I am
after something that will integrate with what is proposed and existing already. What about joining the lower noob tube
to the sandstone trail so that you can access this track via the grassy knoll?

Any other ideas. Not much time!

Kind regards

Matt

 

[aussie pete]

Have you had a look at expanding the rollercat out at the top of the first loop, there is possibly another k or 2 there that could be added.

 

[nimrodx]

Have you had a look at expanding the rollercat out at the top of the first loop, there is possibly another k or 2 there that could be added.

Good point, I remember you mentioning that. I will get that on the map in an approximate way.

Matt

 

[DOWNHILLPHILL]

Proffesional Input.

Ok ok guys, I have the answer to all your problems here, build an absolute mess of trails all over jubillee, chuck in a chairlift and wow you have a mini whistler! seriously though with the way things are becoming this jubillee park will probably become a bike park one day. just without the chairlift unfortunatley...

 

[Road Rage Ryan]

Matt,

I think Smokey trail would be well and truly grown over. It was about 7 years ago.

I agree with the rollercat idea. There is room to move on the expanding some of the switchbacks.

Regarding your noob trail to sandstone, that is a good suggestion.

Also the holy grail would be to run a trail on the top side of the fireroad all the way back out to bridge St.

 

[nimrodx]

HI Ryan,

With you, except for this bit, which I do not understand...

Also the holy grail would be to run a trail on the top side of the fireroad all the way back out to bridge St.

Do you mean running along beside the fire-road but up-slope of it or something else?

Thanks

Matt

 

[SCHOEY]

HI Ryan,

With you, except for this bit, which I do not understand...


Do you mean running along beside the fire-road but up-slope of it or something else?

Thanks

Matt

Yeah, im pretty sure that is what he means Matt. Something between the bottom & top fireroads in the area from the grassy noll on the DH track through to around cheeseburger

 

[Road Rage Ryan]

Hi Matt,

Exactly what Jason said.

Good luck

Tomorrow

 

[DOWNHILLPHILL]

Yeah, im pretty sure that is what he means Matt. Something between the bottom & top fireroads in the area from the grassy noll on the DH track through to around cheeseburger

And our super D track is born!

A few months later Toowoomba becomes the mountain bike capital of the state!

This would also be good to shuttle on and get some enduro type downhill goin, Im sick of 4 minute runs! I want a 10-15 minute run!

I am so exited about what you guys are planning, I honestly would join and everything but I'm just too busy with work, and after work I often feel too tired to do anythong but post on rotorburn haha how sad.



Oh and by the way who did I see at work today with the spesh enduro on the back of hes ute?? Im thinking shcoey? or whoever?