Trance X rear shock options - advice appreciated!

[macca_1972]

Hi all,

I have a 2008 Trance X2 which I have recently rebuilt and plan to keep riding for quite a while yet. It’s still running the original shock (Fox Float R) which I have always wanted to upgrade but the unique size (184x44/7.25"x1.75") has made that difficult. Pretty much anything would be an upgrade in terms of adjustability – even if it just means I can turn the factory-set ProPedal off – as the only adjustment on this shock is the rebound which I have always found a bit limiting.

After years of keeping an eye out, I now find myself with three options that would cost me around the same, give or take $50 or so. I’m honestly not sure which way to jump with this, so I am hoping the brains trust here could give me some advice.

For reference, the tune codes for my original shock are Medium for both compression and rebound. Front fork is now a 2014 Fox Float Factory 32 CTD.

Option 1 – Fox Float RP2 Boostvalve
Originally fitted to a 2010 Trance however has Light velocity/compression tune (Rebound still Med), with BV 200. Not sure if this change in compression tune was considered an improvement between ‘08-’10, considering that the frames themselves are identical?
Needs a rebuild so I could probably get a custom tune done (for the open position) when it is serviced.

Option 2 – Fox Float Factory CTD Boostvalve w/Kashima
According to the 4-letter code this is from a 2014 Trance X 29er 0. Rebound tune M, Velocity tune L (so same tune as RP2 above) with BV 250.
(I guess this one would match the front fork, both being 2014, CTD and Kashima!)
Seems to have the most adjustability of the three here.

Option 3 – Rockshox Monarch XX Debonair
Rebound and compression tunes both Medium. (Although I half expect what is considered Medium by RS may well be different to that of Fox.)
Not really familiar with RS shocks so unsure of adjustments, features, etc on this one. At first glance it appears to only have rebound adjust – maybe not much different to what I have now? Originally fitted to a Cannondale Habit so different linkage design (although same leverage ratio) may mean it is not really suitable.

One of my main issues with the original shock is its lack of small bump compliance – sometimes it has felt like I am riding a hardtail. (I imagine as a result of the inbuilt ProPedal that can’t be switched off, as bigger hits seem to be absorbed quite well.) So small bump compliance is one of the particular improvements I would like to gain from this.

I am also very unsure of the consequence/effect of fitting a shock with different tune to the original – in particular going from a Med compression/velocity tune to a Light one (Options 1 & 2)? Although these are both originally from Maestro linkage frames so in theory should be ideal?

My local is Daisy Hill and I like to ride it fairly aggressively, so style would be a mix of XC and Trail. I am about 80kg kitted up.

Apologies for long post, and if any of my questions are a bit simplistic. All advice hugely appreciated.

 

[The Duckmeister]

CTD would give both softer and firmer setting than the current shock; the preset ProPedal is roughly similar to the "Trail" (middle) setting of the CTD. Alternatively look out for a RP23, which has an extra tune position. There were two versions of RP23, the standard 2011 & earlier, and the 2012-only "Adaptive Logic". the switching is different between the two, but the damping settings are the same.

The Monarch will be better if you're a heavier rider, Fox are better suited to lighter riders. If you're a lightweight (sub-75kg or thereabouts), the Monarch will feel similar to what you currently have with no top-stroke compliance. Fox (with switchable-off damping) give better compliance, but tend to lack mid-stroke support for heavier riders, although the Boost Valve does address it a bit.

 

[teK--]

If your concern is with small bump compliance get the Monarch with Debonair. M/M tune is what Giants are fitted with from factory.

 

[SummitFever]

A Monarch is probably your best bet. The piston assemblies are available from RS so you can fit any piston tune that you desire (although you may need to order the assembly from overseas). All the seals, spare parts and service manuals are available from RS so you'll never need to send your shock off for maintenance.

Having said that, the Monarch XX is my least favourite Monarch shock because of an inherent design flaw in the XX lockout. Basically, the hydraulic actuator will leak oil (and let air in) where it connects to the shock (around the rebound adjuster). There are just two little o-rings for seal and the leverage that the moving shock/semi-stationary hydraulic line puts on the assembly makes it leak. On frames where the top of the shock doesn't move it isn't so bad, but on something like a Trance or Anthem it's a nightmare. Take a look here for more info on the leaking issue.

Monarch RT3 (2016 or later) model would be the pick of the bunch. Open, platform and locked settings (although I don't think that the open setting is as "open" as the open setting on the Monarch RL). The Rapid Recovery rebound isn't just another marketing gimmick. It's a properly divergent shimmed rebound stack and offers a big improvement on high speed rebound events (like going deep into braking bumps).

 

[rowdyflat]

Agree use Monarch RT3 or similar quite tunable.
IMO If the exact size isnt available use slightly longer but use washers to limit the stroke.I have done this.
Also Increasing eye to eye will raise bottom bracket and make seattube slightly steeper.

 

[macca_1972]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Having said that, the Monarch XX is my least favourite Monarch shock because of an inherent design flaw in the XX lockout. Basically, the hydraulic actuator will leak oil (and let air in) where it connects to the shock (around the rebound adjuster). There are just two little o-rings for seal and the leverage that the moving shock/semi-stationary hydraulic line puts on the assembly makes it leak. On frames where the top of the shock doesn't move it isn't so bad, but on something like a Trance or Anthem it's a nightmare.

I was leaning away from this one to be honest, as it doesn't look to be too different to what I have now (in terms of adjustability at least) anyway. Seeing as I have a Trance with plenty of movement around the top of the shock, I think I'll give this a miss.

I guess a Monarch RT3 would be nice, but I definitely have to keep within a budget. And the length/stroke thing is so limiting in terms of what is available in the 2nd hand market.

Having done a fair bit of reading on this, I am wondering if a modded RP2 BV might not be such a bad idea. I am envisioning having it custom tuned in the open mode to suit my weight, riding style, etc for general trail riding, and flicking the ProPedal on for climbs. I guess that leaves no means to adjust the compression though, at least with an RP23 (or CTD) you have couple of other comp settings you can try around the base one, without having to return back to the shop each time for an adjustment.

Would probably need to talk to a suspension specialist further, but I would like to think there has been some knowledge built up over the years within the industry regarding what is a pretty good rear shock baseline setup for Maestro frames. (With a bit of variation for rider preferences, etc.) I remember reading a post on here by merc-blue a while back saying they were forever retuning RP23's for Giants to suit them properly, as the supplied tune was pretty bad.

Also in regards to custom tuning, overseas forums are always raving about PUSH tuning. Is this available from anyone in Oz these days? I understand Dirtworks used to do it but I think those days are long gone.

 

[schred]

Buying a 2nd hand shock then getting it custom tuned, and probably serviced too, seems a bit out of whack with a budget rear shock objective.

IMO http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/RSROMRC3V2/rockshox-monarch-plus-rc3-debon-air-rear-shock + 5mm shim / additional bumper = KISS solution

 

[macca_1972]

Buying a 2nd hand shock then getting it custom tuned, and probably serviced too, seems a bit out of whack with a budget rear shock objective.

IMO http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/RSROMRC3V2/rockshox-monarch-plus-rc3-debon-air-rear-shock + 5mm shim / additional bumper = KISS solution

The cost of the shock plus the service/tune would work out around $230-250 so not as bad as it would probably sound. That being said, Monarchs (especially when fitted with the Debonair can) have a lot of appeal. Available in the right size, easy to tune and service and lots of good feedback. Probably worth keeping an eye out for one of these (RT3) 2nd hand.

I just rode the Trance for the first time yesterday since the rebuild and the old Float R still rides pretty well (gave it an air can service and new DU bush when off the bike) so that will keep me going for the time being I think.

The biggest issue I have is the shock size not being all that common. Closest common size is 190x51 which would fit with an offset top bushing. But that would raise rear end and BB a bit, and I would only bother if I was able to extend the fork to say 140mm to compensate. But then that all adds up as well and blows set budget figures.......

 

[schred]

Pretty sure it's straightforward to whom it such that it reduces overall eye to eye and travel, hence knock 5mm off both measurements. But if what you have works, stick with it!

 

[macca_1972]

Schred I'll admit I didn't take a close look at your link until just now - house renovations etc going on, been a bit busy.

Clicking around further, PlanetX/On-One have brand new RT3's pretty damn cheap. They give the option of a "Direct Interface Shock Bush" version for around 50 Euro cheaper - not sure what that refers to exactly. Would that refer to a Trance type setup with no shock bush required in the lower eye? Of just options of different types of bushes?

Only available in 190 x 51, can the actual eye-to-eye on these be reduced by 5-6mm to get closer to my 184mm? Is that the 'shim' that you were referring to in your earlier post schred? Not keen on having to leave it at 190 if I can help it, with the rear end and BB raised.

 

[The Duckmeister]

Not keen on having to leave it at 190 if I can help it, with the rear end and BB raised.

You'd in all probability find the linkage design would limit any extension of the back end, as it will physically stop against the frame before the shock hit its full extension. There's very rarely any more than a couple of mm
extra play in the linkage than the specified shock length.

 

[macca_1972]

You'd in all probability find the linkage design would limit any extension of the back end, as it will physically stop against the frame before the shock hit its full extension. There's very rarely any more than a couple of mm
extra play in the linkage than the specified shock length.

I actually did some playing around during the rebuild while the shock was off the bike and found exactly what you described.

I drilled a piece of ply to simulate the 190mm spacing and attempted to fit it as a test, however with the linkage at full extension it was about a mm too short. Took me a while to find the actual interference point, turns out a central weld on the rear triangle was contacting the lower link. If the weld was a bees dick lower you could probably make a 190mm shock fit, and from what I have read elsewhere (mtbr forums mostly) others have made it work so their weld may well be a lower profile.

But since I know for a fact that mine won't take it (and I don't want to just go grinding a weld down for the sake of it), I have been focused exclusively on another 184x44 shock to suit my bike.