Unused Land Isn't Legal, Threads Will Be Locked

[Trevor_S]

Maybe you guys who are complaining should have a look at this article from IMBA. Unauthorized Trails - Do They Threaten Our Sport?

http://www.imba.com/resources/bike_management/untrails.html

Playing the devils advocate, as is my want over land access

Is there a trail network in Australia that didn't start out as illegal first ? Maybe there is but I am guessing they are quit the oddity. ie someone whacks a few trails down, it becomes an issue, someone bitches to the land manager, they invariably try and close the trails rather then examine why the area is being used that way blah blah ... eventually a couple of responsible types come along find out what the law is, set a club up, get some insurance etc and try and do the "right thing" (as defined be bureaucrats), often at the same time actively discouraging the guys that were there first that started it by just riding.. of course this process can take years and often the original users have moved on to other pursuits.

There are two ways to approach land management, personally I think we (all land users) are going about it the wrong way. We should be advocating for a quantum mind shift in access, stating ALL access to all public land is legal and it's the land managers job to mange it for the best outcomes for the users, the flora and fauna and the land, rather then having it the other way around, where access is forbidden without permission.

Personally I have had enough of ineffectual bureaucrats dictating land access, however the pragmatist in me realises that this status quo is probably with us for a while, mainly due to self interest of the land managers and a lazy public who just go and build illegally rather then advocate for change

 

[JaRedy]

Can anyone give me a heads up for where I can contact the "land manager" assuming it's a council boke...

Cheers.

 

[dcrofty]

Can anyone give me a heads up for where I can contact the "land manager" assuming it's a council boke...

Cheers.

Walk up to the front desk at your local council, tell them where the land is and ask them whether they manage it. If they don't they can probably tell you who does (as long as its another public authority), if its private they will probably just tell you its private but won't be able to give contact details.

 

[JaRedy]

Walk up to the front desk at your local council, tell them where the land is and ask them whether they manage it. If they don't they can probably tell you who does (as long as its another public authority), if its private they will probably just tell you its private but won't be able to give contact details.

okiedokie. Cheers.

Now just need to find them...

probably in that big building that was a big stuff up and looks like it was build by 2 different people and the guy that did the top made it too big and so they had to put poles down to stop it falling over true story ok...

 

[chips_with_everything]

A very interesting thread.

In many ways I agree that access to public land is an inalienable right. And I'd go further... I feel that access to private land is a right as well. We ought to be able to get where we need to without too much trouble, and for instance if we want to potter around the coast of Oz we should be able to do that without being hindered by the fatcats in the Eastern Suburbs.

The trickier part for me is affecting the place. Access is one thing, degrading is another. Damage is the discriminator for me.

Even walking causes big problems with significant visitation rates. Trail construction is clearly an issue.

So the solutions might lie with a mix of properly constructed trails with legitimate authority, and riding pretty much wherever you like so long as there is no damage (i.e. little/no evidence that you were there).

 

[GUFF]

You don't even have to go to your local Council to find land owner details anymore in some parts, just check the relevant website for an online planning system. More Councils are listing ownership (not contact) details on these sites.

If you are really keen you can do a basic search, for which you will be charged, to get the information. Most of these are a reasonable cost though.

 

[big geoff]

so, some of my friends work in local council and communitydevelopment jobs and they inform me that they are just itching for solid proposals from local community stakeholders (you and your mates) for jump parks and sh1t BMX track re-developments. they will require more than a crayon drawing of you doing a back flip but they are keen.

there are a bunch of political reasons for local gov to do this with wanky titles like building social capital and community inclusivness but basically they want young people riding their bikes and not boosting their merc.

also the other guy is right about about DH trail building having a big enviro impact. i've seen some trails that have been built by tards that have become eroded, unrideable rivers in one season.

i'm a MTB instructor by trade and i've heard on the grape vine that big things are gonna happen at MT Baw Baw and possibly some new development for the heavy hitters at Lysterfield. so find out whats happening and get involved legit.

finally for those of us who see a ridge line with a road from top to bottom and just gotta get the shovels out. KEEP IT QUIET! it means the trail will stay mint for longer, will stay secret for longer and we all love the joy of speaking to a fellow rider and getting the "well, theres this new trail i'm building but its super secret and you gotta help dig."

 

[dcrofty]

finally for those of us who see a ridge line with a road from top to bottom and just gotta get the shovels out. KEEP IT QUIET! it means the trail will stay mint for longer, will stay secret for longer and we all love the joy of speaking to a fellow rider and getting the "well, theres this new trail i'm building but its super secret and you gotta help dig."

Try not to build the trail straight down the hill either.

Something built properly that goes back and forth won't erode nearly as quickly and you get a longer track out of it.

 

[gerg]

A very interesting thread.

In many ways I agree that access to public land is an inalienable right. And I'd go further... I feel that access to private land is a right as well.

I hope you are joking? So hypothetically, I work my arse off for years to afford to buy a property and some idiot (you in this instance) thinks its ok to come onto my land and modify my property for your benefit without my permission.

Despite what you may think, I'd guess that a good percentage of the people that live in the Eastern suburbs have worked their lives to be able to afford to live where they do.

P.S. I don't know why I'm arguing with a 12 y/o.

 

[thecat]

P.S. I don't know why I'm arguing with a 12 y/o.

Last I looked Chips was a bit older than 12. He is also fairly active in the advocacy scene and knows his stuff.

I think you completely missed his point of access. A far as I understand it the whole right to roam thing sprung up in the Scottish moores in the 1800s. Land lords were refusing to let people walk across the marsh lands and fish and stuff. The masses protested and won.

Right to roam is the right to cross private land, not modify or damage it. It also takes a more realistic approach to liability.

In the UK there are bunch of trail systems and walk ways that cross private land with full rights of access to the public.

In australia this exists only for river systems and water ways. I can cross private property anytime I like as long as I'm following a water way and actually in the water. As soon as I step onto the bank I'm tresspassing.


Bit of info on wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_public_access_to_the_wilderness

"People exercising the right of access have certain duties to respect other people's rights to manage the land, and to protect nature."

 

[chips_with_everything]

Thanks for speaking up, thecat. Noble.
That's right, I was very not suggesting modifying people's land.

As it happens I have worked hard enough, and am fortunate to enjoy a tiny slice of waterfront in the Eastern suburbs myself. The space under my windows is privately owned (strata) but is open to the public 24/7. I like it that way.

I'm trying to be discriminating about a fine line between legal ownership (OK), and excluding everyone else while trampling their natural right to enjoy our planet (not quite so OK, and worth reflecting upon at least).

 

[Loky]

It amazes me how people can become so worked up about a trail a few meters wide and a few hundred meters long, and yet there is still thousands of acres of land being destroyed for buildings, etc. I'm not however saying that trails shouldn't become legalised..

 

[Holder Boy]

Old School

When I started riding you had to ride on walking trials, then old frats whinged, and restricted us. almost 20years on we now have smart jobs, bikes, wifes. houses, kids etc and political clout!! to get MTB parks, but I am not going to forgive the restricters of the right to ride Move ON whingers!! that dive fat 4X4s to trial heads and then woddle up them.

 

[Davo94]

In australia this exists only for river systems and water ways. I can cross private property anytime I like as long as I'm following a water way and actually in the water. As soon as I step onto the bank I'm tresspassing.

Actually their is a few meters of crown land to each side of waterways

 

[BrockF]

Actually their is a few meters of crown land to each side of waterways

Depends when the land was first bought. If the land has been in the one name for a few decades, I forget the actual date, then they may own the river banks. Fences across rivers and creeks is a big issue for whitewater kayakers, and some landowners have come close to killing people with their "illeagel" fences !

 

[jet-ski]

Actually their is a few meters of crown land to each side of waterways

not everywhere - there are definately parts of the Avon river where private property goes to the edge of the river...