VIC VES improvements for 2013

S

serowe

Likes Dirt
Steve - I would make one modifcation to your 3 points:

A should read:

a) ALL rounds attract points.

It is, after all, a series and, as you day, usually an enjoyable one - any series (in any sport) that starts dropping rounds in the final point score is, IMHO, not trying to be the best it can be.siht can happen to any rider at any time and is part of all sports - you take the good with the bad (hoping the bad never happens). Besides, this way there can be no disputing - at the final round - what the points will be!
 
akashra

akashra

Eats Squid
A 24hr World Champ once joked with me that "It's the Victorian Enduro Series, not the Victorian Relay Series". I've stuck with that since hearing it :)
Solo categories are your 'race' categories. Teams are participation.
 
Marx

Marx

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Do we have details for VES 2013, so prospective competitors can plan the year ahead?
http://www.mountainbikevictoria.com/VES.aspx seems outa date.

I agree with akrasha about categories for VES; solos are the competitive VES cats, team cats can go for ‘hosting club of the round’ supplied prize/trophies on the day where provided.
 
G

gadget1

Likes Dirt
akashra said:
A 24hr World Champ once joked with me that "It's the Victorian Enduro Series, not the Victorian Relay Series". I've stuck with that since hearing it :)
Solo categories are your 'race' categories. Teams are participation.
Click to expand...
Totally disagree with you (As usual) Tim. :)

There are plenty of individual events every year. What makes the Enduro series what it is is that it is a TEAM event - racing WITH and AGAINST your mates.

cycling is already enough of an individual sport as it is.
 
J

jamespierce

Likes Dirt
akashra said:
A 24hr World Champ once joked with me that "It's the Victorian Enduro Series, not the Victorian Relay Series". I've stuck with that since hearing it :)
Solo categories are your 'race' categories. Teams are participation.
Click to expand...
That's elitist and embarrassing - Racing, properly full gas, balls to the wall racing pairs hurts just as much as racing solo. To be honest I've never quite understood the snobbery about teams being soft and solos being where the big boys and girls race ? Anyway, apply my rule and you can't go wrong. If it's not fun, stop doing it.

More interesting subject, do we have dates yet ?
 
jathanas

jathanas

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akashra said:
A 24hr World Champ once joked with me that "It's the Victorian Enduro Series, not the Victorian Relay Series". I've stuck with that since hearing it :)
Solo categories are your 'race' categories. Teams are participation.
Click to expand...
* sigh *

10 chars
 
S

serowe

Likes Dirt
jamespierce said:
That's elitist and embarrassing - Racing, properly full gas, balls to the wall racing pairs hurts just as much as racing solo. To be honest I've never quite understood the snobbery about teams being soft and solos being where the big boys and girls race ? Anyway, apply my rule and you can't go wrong. If it's not fun, stop doing it.
Click to expand...
Elitist you may call it - but if you look at the heirachy of MTB events - club, state, national, Olympic - it is the Solo riders that can make the run right through, not teams (and that isn't meant to be putting any team riders/members down).

And, IIRC, there is a category called 'Elite' so it would appear most organisers already see this group as being 'elitist'? :)
 
jathanas

jathanas

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serowe said:
Elitist you may call it - but if you look at the heirachy of MTB events - club, state, national, Olympic - it is the Solo riders that can make the run right through, not teams (and that isn't meant to be putting any team riders/members down).

And, IIRC, there is a category called 'Elite' so it would appear most organisers already see this group as being 'elitist'? :)
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Fair point. I have one response, Duael. :)

The most fun event I've ever entered, and it's pairs racing. I've done my share of both, solo and team, and prefer the fun and mate ship of pairs racing.

Road cycling is just as much a team sport. How would Wiggins have fared without his support?
 
S

serowe

Likes Dirt
Road cycling tends to be a team sport though - each team has a 'leader' (or winner as the case may be). I guess form the Enduro Series POV though, solo riders only have the choice of running either XC style events - 90 odd minutes), State Enduro events (6 Hrs), an extremely few 12 Hr or 24 Hr events. If you take the State Enduro's out of the equation, they are left with very little else to compete in as a solo group. It can be argued teams are in the same boat, but, team 'members' don't ride the entire event by themselves - they ride as part of a team.

Anyway - back to VES :)
 
akashra

akashra

Eats Squid
Don't get me wrong, teams/relay-format racing has its place, but I'm not convinced that place is as a premier category side-by-side at the same event as solo endurance events. On its own, yes, it can have just as much emphasis - but when they both run on the same day at the same time, one has to have an emphasis on which event the 'elite' guys would focus on. Even if only for this reason events like the Duael have my full support, I think this event is one where Bruce has done something fantastic - he's taken a set form of how you have to race and said "okay, this is how everyone has to race", and it's worked really well - no solos, no triples, purely two-person teams. It's something different, and people like it.

It's just like you don't get Tennis stars turning up to the opens and saying "my focus is on the doubles, that's where the prestige is".
 
Milo_B

Milo_B

Squid
Steve - I would make one modifcation to your 3 points:

A should read:

a) ALL rounds attract points.

It is, after all, a series and, as you day, usually an enjoyable one - any series (in any sport) that starts dropping rounds in the final point score is, IMHO, not trying to be the best it can be.siht can happen to any rider at any time and is part of all sports - you take the good with the bad (hoping the bad never happens). Besides, this way there can be no disputing - at the final round - what the points will be!
Click to expand...
I agree that all rounds should attract points, however I believe that a "drop" system could be implemented successfully (as used in sailing regattas -Club, State, National, International & Olympic formats)

Basically - points are awarded for all races but all competitors get to "drop" their worst (or 2) results.

So - say the series uses a low point system such as 1 points for 1st, 2/2nd .... etc up to 100 for a Did not Contest. Thus - those who compete for all the rounds get to drop at worst maybe a 10th whilst those who compete only 5 of the 8 rounds have to carry a DNC even after 2 drops.

Hence - those who make the effort to travel all around the state during the season are rewarded more than those that don't. If there are breakages or injury - that sucks as you are penalised for finishing higher than you were placed when you pulled out but, that's racing!!
 
J

johndh

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Bottom line for me is, the events are advertised as participation events and all competitors pay the same amount to enter the event whether they are solo or school team of 4, we need to provide value for their $$ eg a safe environment as possible race first aid, marshals on track, ,appropriate technical track for a participation event, spot prizes opportunities , enjoyment, opportunities to race against other teams if they want. Some race against the clock others their mates, others themselves some do the series and should be rewarded for that.
 
D

dowey42

Likes Dirt
Trying to leave all of the previous discussions alone...I believe we should look at how we can increase the numbers at the events and series as a whole. I know that we as a club, Gippsland MTB, aren't very raced focused with the exception of a few. That said, we have our own very competitive series, and there aren't too many who race away from our series, might be the same for other clubs...
If numbers at events, solos and teams, bring in money for the host club AND the series then this can only be of benefit to all 'participants'.
Will be interesting to see how the calendar is adopted by everyone. Have seen the draft and looked quite good.
 
C

Cúl-Báire

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Any word on a schedule, or even a "draft" so we can pencil in some dates?
I am super keen to race the series this year (for the first time), but need to start planning what events I would like to do.
 
pistonbroke

pistonbroke

Eats Squid
Cúl-Báire said:
Any word on a schedule, or even a "draft" so we can pencil in some dates?
I am super keen to race the series this year (for the first time), but need to start planning what events I would like to do.
Click to expand...
+1
It does feel like the year is slipping away as the calendar fills up with other event.
Even some info on the first round or two would be great.
 
leftieant

leftieant

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Without having dates exactly in front of me, I would be pencilling in the last weekend of each month from March onwards. 7 rounds rings a bell. Beyond that I can't really help any further.
 
J

jamespierce

Likes Dirt
FYI Gang:

http://www.mountainbikevictoria.com/Story.aspx?ID=2013-01-15-01


Announcing dates for the Victorian Enduro Series 2013.

Round 1 - 24 March Crazy Six Enduro TBA Geelong Mountain Bike Club
Round 2 - 27 April Mount Beauty 6hr Big Hill Mountain Bike Park Team Mt Beauty
Round 3 - 29 June Nail Can Hill, Albury Albury Wodonga Mountain Bikers
Round 4 - 27 July Blores Hill Gippsland MTB Inc
Round 5 - 22 September Ballarat 6hr TBA Ballarat-Sebastopol Cycling Club
Round 6 - 20 October Rock Hop 6hr Dallas Brooks Park, Beaconsfield Upper DirtRiders Mountain Bike Club
Round 7 - 10 November Buxton Boot Camp Buxton MTB Park Big Hill Events
 
riderideride

riderideride

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jamespierce said:
FYI Gang:

http://www.mountainbikevictoria.com/Story.aspx?ID=2013-01-15-01


Announcing dates for the Victorian Enduro Series 2013.

Round 1 - 24 March Crazy Six Enduro TBA Geelong Mountain Bike Club
Round 2 - 27 April Mount Beauty 6hr Big Hill Mountain Bike Park Team Mt Beauty
Round 3 - 29 June Nail Can Hill, Albury Albury Wodonga Mountain Bikers
Round 4 - 27 July Blores Hill Gippsland MTB Inc
Round 5 - 22 September Ballarat 6hr TBA Ballarat-Sebastopol Cycling Club
Round 6 - 20 October Rock Hop 6hr Dallas Brooks Park, Beaconsfield Upper DirtRiders Mountain Bike Club
Round 7 - 10 November Buxton Boot Camp Buxton MTB Park Big Hill Events
Click to expand...
Are these dates final? I dont see anything on the official website. http://www.vicenduroseries.com.au/?page_id=13
 
M

monc

Likes Dirt
Thanks for the dates - really looking forward to the series this year, although I think I need a new partner as +1 is contemplating going solo.

I hate to be the first one to complain, but why oh why is the Buxton round on the same weekend as the Rosewhite 12 hour is usually run AGAIN! :yell:
 
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