Warning: Riding Illegal Tracks

[alchemist]

Two riders were caught and photographed by National Parks Rangers riding the illegal track near the model aircraft field near Oxford Falls.

It appears they have given false addresses (and presumably names) to the National Park Rangers. So now once they are identified they will not only be receiving a fine of $300 for riding illegally, they'll also each receive a second fine of $500 for providing false information.

 

[tangcla]

Being an absolute n00b... what defines an illegal track?

 

[alchemist]

In a National Park - any single track where riding is not expressly permitted within the National Park's Plan of Management.

 

[tangcla]

So in other words, a track not designated for riding (i.e. walking track) ?

 

[MJS]

Not knowing the track in question, is their signs up stating it is illegal / no riding allowed ? How is a rider to know it is an illegal trail therefore shouldn't be riding there ? I would understand if it was a walking track with clear signs stating no bikes allowed... or if they were actually working on the track, but fined for riding on a track that is just there, if it is not signposted as illegal then fining the riders would be pretty low if you ask me.

 

[mtb1611]

Two riders were caught and photographed by National Parks Rangers riding the illegal track near the model aircraft field near Oxford Falls.

It appears they have given false addresses (and presumably names) to the National Park Rangers. So now once they are identified they will not only be receiving a fine of $300 for riding illegally, they'll also each receive a second fine of $500 for providing false information.

Exactly what powers to NPWS rangers have in terms of demanding personal particulars, and what recourse do they have if particulars provided are in fact false? Are their powers the same as police officers? Not being antagonistic, just curious because to be honest, if I was stopped by NPWS I wouldn't be giving them ANY information, I'd simply ride off. Having said that, I don't ride illegal trails....

 

[RYDA]

The real crime here is how slow they must have been riding...

 

[cluster]

The real crime here is how slow they must have been riding...

I like your way of thinking...

 

[Lleyt0n]

Id say they would have some what of some powers as ive seen them giving out 80 dollar fines for parking in the royal national park without the day pass, but then again there could be a thing saying we dont have to pay because they dont have enough power.

Im guessing similar powers to parking officers as they can give fines but arent really police.

 

[dcrofty]

Not knowing the track in question, is their signs up stating it is illegal / no riding allowed ?

But really, does every single trail in every single park need a massive sign stating what is and isn't permitted? I hope not.

Exactly what powers to NPWS rangers have in terms of demanding personal particulars, and what recourse do they have if particulars provided are in fact false? Are their powers the same as police officers? Not being antagonistic, just curious because to be honest, if I was stopped by NPWS I wouldn't be giving them ANY information, I'd simply ride off. Having said that, I don't ride illegal trails....

I am currently working as a Ranger for NPWS. The short answer is yes, authorised persons have the legal power to request certain information in some situations and yes it is a further offence (on top of what you were already doing) if you refuse to produce those particulars.

I don't really want to give legal advice here or talk about it too much about it given my current employment but if anyone wants to ask a sensible question via PM I will try and answer it.

Edit, having said that I'm not going to give suggestions about how to 'get away with stuff' or anything that will make things difficult for my colleagues so don't bother asking. I will give info on powers that is publicly available if anyone wants clarification.

 

[alchemist]

The real crime here is how slow they must have been riding...

The barrier they had to climb over to get to and from the track would have slowed down the love child of Hans Rey, Ryan Leech and Danny MacAskill

 

[BT180]

Not knowing the track in question, is their signs up stating it is illegal / no riding allowed ?

The XC trails around the aircraft field at Oxy have 'no riding' signs at the trailheads.

 

[willsy01]

Not knowing the track in question, is their signs up stating it is illegal / no riding allowed ? How is a rider to know it is an illegal trail therefore shouldn't be riding there ? I would understand if it was a walking track with clear signs stating no bikes allowed... or if they were actually working on the track, but fined for riding on a track that is just there, if it is not signposted as illegal then fining the riders would be pretty low if you ask me.

Ignorance isn't an excuse unfortunately. The onus is on the rider to check which tracks are legal and otherwise beforehand.....

Id say they would have some what of some powers as ive seen them giving out 80 dollar fines for parking in the royal national park without the day pass, but then again there could be a thing saying we dont have to pay because they dont have enough power.

Im guessing similar powers to parking officers as they can give fines but arent really police.

I was at Garie beach the other day and the Rangers were in there putting tickets on cars that weren't displaying a pass. I had a look at one and it was just a note saying "Sorry we missed you at the gate" and to pay the $11 at your earliest convenience. You'd probably cop a fine if you ignored that though. Not sure if that is standard practice all through the park.

 

[Wolfbeard]

I think it can be pretty obvious when a walking track can't be used as a riding track. I mean, unless there are jumps and drops that aren't meant for walking up or down, then I'd guess you're not meant to ride there. Anyway, it's a privilege that we riders get to use even the tracks the NPWS gives us, so lets try and keep good relations with the rangers - it'd be really bad if they shut off all the tracks to bikes just because some person lied to a ranger or just ignored them and kept on riding.

 

[MJS]

No, most of the time it is not obvious when a track is designated as walkers only. I speak mostly in the case of Lane Cove NP, as I know the trails there like the back of my hand. I have actually looked into which tracks are illegal to use for bikers, and 9 times out of 10, there are no signs at the trailhead stating as such. This makes it very difficult for bikers to differentiate the different trails. I would think that if NPWS was serious about keeping walkers and bikers separate they would go to the trouble of signposting trails properly, it can't be that much effort.

 

[Wolfbeard]

No, most of the time it is not obvious when a track is designated as walkers only. I speak mostly in the case of Lane Cove NP, as I know the trails there like the back of my hand. I have actually looked into which tracks are illegal to use for bikers, and 9 times out of 10, there are no signs at the trailhead stating as such. This makes it very difficult for bikers to differentiate the different trails.

Oh, I didn't know that. I guess my area, being mainly Garigal, is a bit different, or I just walk tracks where you wouldn't want to ride bikes on anyway, or I'm just a newbie and have no idea.

 

[MJS]

Oh, I didn't know that. I guess my area, being mainly Garigal, is a bit different, or I just walk tracks where you wouldn't want to ride bikes on anyway, or I'm just a newbie and have no idea.

Can't speak for Garigal myself, sounds like it's easier to differentiate the tracks there, but LCNP is quite confusing.

 

[dcrofty]

You'd probably cop a fine if you ignored that though. Not sure if that is standard practice all through the park.

It is standard in the park. If you ignore the note on your window it turns into a $100 fine.

Can't speak for Garigal myself, sounds like it's easier to differentiate the tracks there, but LCNP is quite confusing.

If its a national park, single track and there is no sign saying you can ride then you can't.

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/parksafety/CyclingResponsibly.htm

 

[MJS]

If its a national park, single track and there is no sign saying you can ride then you can't.

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/parksafety/CyclingResponsibly.htm

Am I to assume that all single tracks are walking tracks ? It doesn't actually explain it on the website, or I just can't find the section that explains this... best explanation I can find is "Cycling is generally prohibited on all walking tracks unless a sign indicates otherwise. However, many parks offer extensive networks of suitable roads, tracks and fire trails" which is pretty vague.

I think that as long as trails are not signposted properly many riders (myself included) will continue to use trails that could very well be intended as walking trails, but how are we to know ? FYI I do keep off trails that are clearly signposted as no bikes allowed..

 

[thecat]

Am I to assume that all single tracks are walking tracks ? It doesn't actually explain it on the website, or I just can't find the section that explains this... best explanation I can find is "Cycling is generally prohibited on all walking tracks unless a sign indicates otherwise. However, many parks offer extensive networks of suitable roads, tracks and fire trails" which is pretty vague.

I think that as long as trails are not signposted properly many riders (myself included) will continue to use trails that could very well be intended as walking trails, but how are we to know ? FYI I do keep off trails that are clearly signposted as no bikes allowed..

Pretty much. At the moment if it's in a national park and it's single trail it is illegal unless otherwise stated, sometimes even fire roads are off limits, though generally these are signed unless it's in wilderness zones then they come under the same restrictions as single trai.

As Rob pointed out, exceptions are normally buried in the Plan of Management rather posted at the trail head.

Notable exceptions, The Oak in Blue Mt NP, The Coach rd and Glowworn tunnel walking tails in Wollemi...

check out the trail building forums for info on how you can petition NPs to be more inclusive