Well done opposition leader for being realistic - Apology thoughts.

MoR has far more brains than to fall into a childish squabble. He'll argue his point with measured opinion and dignity..., if his track record is anything to go by.
 
red death said:
C'mon, I know you've got an opinion. Lets have it. There's no problem with people taking an opposing view, provided they explain their justification. You always do that - (not that we often agree) :)

I agree SOME here have a decent intellectual level. You are certainly amongst those. gizmo boy doesn't appear to be.
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My opinion is subject to change. I usually have an initial opinion, and after a little research and fact finding sometimes it differs from the inital.

I think this issue is one of those. I think I have some reading to do.............
 
Can't be bothered reading this thread because it seems to be a total slanging match with a few people just being stupid.
What I did find interesting was the reactions of people involved in the government side of the saga. I saw an interview with an old nun who had worked at the mission schools educating these aboriginal children. She was unapolagetic, she felt that they had done the right thing. The kids had been taken out of terrible situatuions given a good education and a better chance at a normal (western) style life. She said the kids had a great time, never wanted to go back to their families and she couldn't see what was so wrong.

It might just be an old lady trying to defend what she did in the past, or evidence of the differing attitudes and the idea that at the time that they were doing the right thing.
 
JDB said:
Can't be bothered reading this thread because it seems to be a total slanging match with a few people just being stupid.
What I did find interesting was the reactions of people involved in the government side of the saga. I saw an interview with an old nun who had worked at the mission schools educating these aboriginal children. She was unapolagetic, she felt that they had done the right thing. The kids had been taken out of terrible situatuions given a good education and a better chance at a normal (western) style life. She said the kids had a great time, never wanted to go back to their families and she couldn't see what was so wrong.

It might just be an old lady trying to defend what she did in the past, or evidence of the differing attitudes and the idea that at the time that they were doing the right thing.
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Yeah but if you read the thread you would also have seen the comment of a woman who was involved in the removal of children and remains scarred by it to this day because she felt it was wrong at the time and feels upset that she didn't do anything about it. So not everyone at the time thought they were doing the right thing.

And just because one person says that the kids she saw had a "great" time doesn't mean that plenty of others weren't horribly mistreated.
 
JDB said:
Can't be bothered reading this thread because it seems to be a total slanging match with a few people just being stupid.
What I did find interesting was the reactions of people involved in the government side of the saga. I saw an interview with an old nun who had worked at the mission schools educating these aboriginal children. She was unapolagetic, she felt that they had done the right thing. The kids had been taken out of terrible situatuions given a good education and a better chance at a normal (western) style life. She said the kids had a great time, never wanted to go back to their families and she couldn't see what was so wrong.

It might just be an old lady trying to defend what she did in the past, or evidence of the differing attitudes and the idea that at the time that they were doing the right thing.
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And therein lies the complexity of the issue. Certainly in some cases the children that were removed had a better life for it, and it's not too hard to find evidence of that.
In that context, it's not unlike the good stories that can be heard about kids removed from abusive or severely dysfunctional families by DOCS today.

The downside of that is of course the many, many horror stories coming out of the institutions and foster homes the kids are sent to. It's certainly not all cases though.

The difference is that DOCS policy is applicable to a very small percentage of the wider community, rather than a large percentage of one particular racial group.

No doubt people involved in removing the chilren in the stolen generation feel they were doing the right thing, and in some instances they probably were. It still doesn't make the policy right.
 
dcrofty said:
And just because one person says that the kids she saw had a "great" time doesn't mean that plenty of others weren't horribly mistreated.
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And vice versa. They may all been treated well and were happy with there lot. Don't just discount what he has stated.

As for being in aboriginal communities (mentioned earlier by someone), I lived in the territory but never got to the communities, but had seen a lot of community people come into town and the tribes that were in town. Accommodation in the Walpiri camp (In Katherine) was atrocious, but they were just as guilty for the condition of their camp as the government for what they built. The Walpiri people in Katherine are a displaced desert tribe and were a warring tribe (the Kalano were scared of them). They were responsible for a lot of problems in Katherine (mostly alcohol related). The Kalano (Katherine locals) were better housed and appeared to care for there accommodation better.
It really depends on a number of factors including the provided accommodation, the community mindset and the authorities as to how they treated the supplied accommodation.

The people in Coffs were notorious for destroying their accommodation many years ago, but unsure if that is still the case.

Then you look at this plash place designed by Glenn Murcutt
murcott_marika1991-4_web.jpg
110505.jpg

Well designed and well looked after by the aboriginal family (tribal elders IIRC, Arnhem Land) that live in it.
 
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Macr said:
They may all been treated well and were happy with there lot.
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I think its pretty much what the whole apology thing was about that lots weren't.

I like that housing that you posted. In particular that it would appear that much more though and consultation has gone into it's design and construction which results in something to be valued and treated well by its occupants.
 
Firstly, the jury is no longer out regarding the merit of the forcible removal of aboriginal children. I really don't think there's any sound argument either against an apology for that policy, on behalf of the nation responsible. It is a positive and progressive move. What are the arguments against the apology?

That a group of peoples, disenfranchised for a dozen generations, tend to have social and financial management problems? Or that because I wasn't personally responsible that on that basis am not willing to support such a positive move?

The entire point (politics aside) of this thing was to admit policy failings which have led to a horrible state of affairs for many indigenous people, to apologise on behalf of the fools who made those decisions and to make a commitment to improve things from here on in.
 
I think anyone arguing against the apology should watch Rabbit Proof Fence. I've only been able to watch it once.
 
johnny said:
ExTrEmE fReErIdE will be back tomorrow to clarify his point.

GismoTheGecko won't.
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No you band them both so we wont here there points.
they both did have a point tho i think what they were eventually going to get at was that the intensions of the people stealing the children were Good untill later thought upon. then they started realising what they had done. the govenor of the time proply didnt have a clue what was happening in the missions he proply thought they were been treated like people and given a healthy education. he was wrong! hense the sorry. sorry is just a word. this is like when a little kid gets forced to say sorry for smacking his mate, i belive this sorry was also forced upon mr rudd. its all for politics
 
Dear Altec.

It's exactly as I said, Extreme Freeride will be back tomorrow. He was banned temporarily and that ban lifts tomorrow when he has cooled down enough to stop calling people names. Gecko won't be back because he was a troll. He had admitted as much to me in a PM.

By the way, it's spelled: probably.
 
I kind of figured it was you Gecko, you idiot. I told in you in the PM last night that all you had to do was delete your own posts and I would remove the rest for you. But, you didn't, you posted more stupid trolling shit..., after you admitted you were just trolling. A little trolling, I can accept, but to keep going makes you a dickhead. Now, please stop annoying these forums or I will post your IP and email address all over the internet.
 
dcrofty said:
I think its pretty much what the whole apology thing was about that lots weren't.
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Understood, but his point of view was valid as well and appeared to be blown off as inconsequential!

dcrofty said:
I like that housing that you posted. In particular that it would appear that much more though and consultation has gone into it's design and construction which results in something to be valued and treated well by its occupants.
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It is very well thought out and designed. Well worth the time to research it a bit more and get the full story.
 
GizmoTheGecko said:
if i was living in a cave and someone took me and gave me a bed and medicine and an education i would be thankfull yes. im sure my mum would understand eventually.
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Buuuuuuuuuuuullshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

Pretty frickin' easy to say when you've lived a comfortable, cozy life, eh?
 
Customjimmy said:
So has anyone here been to white people's waterways and forests, that black people maintained and studied for 50,000 years? Have you seen what whitey has done when given a pristine environment, bountiful food and resources? Are you just gobbing because you bought the superficial propaganda of developmental capitalism? Until you notice the abomination this country has experienced over the last couple of centuries, any discussion of the irrelevance of compensation is pointless.
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CJ, will you stop using such big words? ExTrEmE FrEeRiDe will have no idea what you're talking about! ;)
 
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