Who actually controls Stromlo??

[morto1980]

This is pretty sloppy IMHO.

If the Downhill track is closed, they should say so on the CORC website *and* the Stromlo forest park website. (In addition to getting the word out at the Nats if they knew at the time).

I'm starting to wonder about the whole "Stromlo" affair - it seems that the people involved need to look at their communication method (both with each other + with the general public). It's fine to be "grassroots" when you're organising small events - but Stromlo is getting to an international level and it just isn't working on this scale (i.e. people travelling long distances to ride & not knowing what is going on).

For example - what the hell would have happened if Farkin.net wasn't here? A lot of people would have turned up and wanted to ride the DH track. They either would have:
a) Ridden it (not knowing they weren't supposed to) - perhaps raising the ire of equestrian riders & damaging our reputation through no fault of their own

or

b) Been turned away and been *really* pissed.

Either outcome wouldn't be that hot for people's opinion of the Stromlo facility.

 

[astroboy]

Holy Christ on a Mountain Bike!

Jeez, I don't look at this forum for 16hrs and all of a sudden it's like Stromlo has blown up or been taken over by terrorists.

For the record, and straight from CORC:

The DH track IS officially closed until AFTER the bridge is installed over the equestrian crossing - this is indeed the intersection that Cam described. When will it be installed and the track re-opened? Who knows. It's being done by the Govt so it's to the usual beauracratic timetable. BUT I will guarantee that I will try my hardest to get it done as fast as possible. The bridge is suposedly sitting out at the airport ready and waiting to go, so there is obviously some delay in choppering it over (planning approval IS required). Once I find out the full story I will be happy to share it. Note though that even after the bridge is installed we need to get Glen back to do some changes to the track - rerouting is required to account for the new overpass.

Much to the sadness of all the 4X track is also temporarily closed again, but the reason for this is actually one of precaution and risk management. Those who rode the Brindi Challenge would have noticed the lack of any fallzones on the edges of the track - head OTB and over/through the side netting and it was a LOOOONG fall to the bottom of the pile. Work is being done now to push additional dirt up to the sides of the 4X mound all the way round, to add in a buffer fall zone BUT also to add in a platform for spectators all the way around the higher edges. The work was started before the Nationals, but unfortunately only the Northern side was completed by the Tuesday before practice started. For safety reasons we cannot have people using it while there are big-tyred Catapillar road building machines working around it. Again, not sure of the timeframe to completion but will get some dates (albeit indicative from the Govt) and get back with the details here.

The XC course is officially OPEN, but please note this is a one way track that goes clockwise . There is talk that some of the sections will need to be closed outside of competitions but as yet I have not received any official word from the Govt so will keep you posted. This is due to (more) unresolved equestrian issues.

So if you are reading this then consider yourself informed of the mentioned closures AND TELL OTHERS, regardless of the lack of signage at the park. A notice will be posted on the CORC website over the weekend, and I will organise for the Govt to clarify the status of the tracks and update the Stromlo Forest Park website early next week. I will also request (note that word) the Govt to post signs up on those tracks that need to be closed, albeit temporarily until completion of the work or for user conflict reasons.

The reason why this has not been posted until now is that the majority of the club has still been busy with the Nationals. All of these issues only became apparant to the Trails team in the two weeks leading up to the Nationals, and given the priority of key club members to the event were not able to be resolved before then in time for an announcement. Apologies to anyone who has been inconvenienced by these issues - as someone who put alot of time into the building of the trails I was also annoyed at first of the closure the month leading up to the nationals. But I DID get over it, I'm sure those who are upset that they may need to wait another few months to ride the DH and 4X tracks will too.

As with any Govt lead initiative there is red tape that needs to be cleared in the early days, but work on the process for maintaining and modifying the trails is being worked on as we speak (open in draft on my PC actually). The Govt will own the land, but I see CORC as being trustees of the trails.

So there you have it. If you still want to get all worked up because it is not going to be open for a couple more months then don't bother 'cause there is little that complaining will do to fix it. CORC will work with the Govt to try and get issues resolved as soon as possible, but there is lots to do and there might be a need for vollies to help out with some trail mods to get the XC trails issues cleared up. So if you are all worked up and want to help out get ALL trails reopened faster then stay tuned for a call to trail building arms. But if you are worked up yet still just want to remain a complainer then dry your eyes, princess. We are all in the same boat together.

Astro (who had a hell week in the office and has the crankypants well and truely on)
CORC Trails Officer

 

[demo man]

Thanks mate - I know you're busy as hell so the detailed post is much appreciated.

 

[SKT]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of bridge are we talking about....??? It's gonna need to be whisper quiet. I mean whizzing over the top at 40 odd km/h is prob still gonna give 'em a little fright and potentially toss their riders askew.

I'll say right now I havn't even had the chance to check out the new Stromlo so it's hard to imagine.

But......

I can say, having been around horses for well over 30 years, they can be mongrels. As can they're freakin' owners. Some riders are responsible and only go public on sensible well broken horses. But some will take they're new beaut ex-racer thoroughbred out and trust me... that horse in the wrong hands is as dangerous as any overpowered motor vehicle in the hands of a underage pisswreck of a driver.
They will scare easy, no matter how hard we try. I've had 'em freak at sticks and go nuts. And that was your everyday good pony. Any rider would have had it happen now and then. They are incredibly emotional beasts and if the rider is all tense giving some d'hiller death stares along with 6 other horseman, you can guarentee that horse is feeling a little toey and is ready to uncoil.

Yeah rant rant..........

Summary.... don't trust these buggers.... full stop.
I've ridden these beasts in all possible enviroments in all types of weather and terrain. They are an entity of their own and will nail you if threatened. And the riders will always, I mean always, look at you like it's your own damn fault.

Good luck working with the "horseys". Best we work along side the guys that have done the many many hard yards so far to get Stromlo up and on the board for an '08 WC and an '09 Worlds. If it sounds like it's closed then consider it closed. Better to be safe than sorry. Let the guys make it safe for us atleast and keep us out of all possible blame. They have to share too.... they forget this bit sometimes.

Gentle nudges guys.....

 

[morgs]

The reasons for closing the road crossing are clear, no issues at all, and we've got some work to do with fixing up various sections.....but.....close the whole DH course? People are itching to get out and ride, surely we can put in a couple of closed sections and allow people to ride? Outside of races most people will tend to ride a bit, stop, chat, re run a section, arse about on a particular feature etc.
If it is going to be closed, then posts on Farkin aren't a proper way of communicating it, if there's no signage out there those who don't read Farkin will still ride it, pissing off the rest of us who do and do as we're told. Just like before the nationals. Lob some signs over to my place or tell me where to pick 'em up and I'll gladly spend my time putting them in on the mountain.

 

[Ryan]

So why did CORC and its associates spend so much time before the Nationals promoting the fact that Stromlo would be open immediately afterwards if you knew that there was still a bridge that had to be installed before the area would be multi-user safe?

It makes no sense, you set a firm opening date, promote the date widely and then act upset when people are pissed that the date isn't met and the courses are still closed despite no effort being made to communicate this fact. You obviously knew the bridge was sitting out at the airport waiting to be installed before yesterday, these things don't assemble themselves overnight, surely a message a week out from the Nationals that 'construction is behind schedule and the tracks will not be open immediately after the Nationals' wouldn't have been that hard to knock out.

Astroboy: I'm going to pilfer a few of your quotes and make an 'official' front page announcement.

 

[FR Drew]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of bridge are we talking about....??? It's gonna need to be whisper quiet.

I can say, having been around horses for well over 30 years, they can be mongrels. As can they're freakin' owners. Some riders are responsible and only go public on sensible well broken horses. But some will take they're new beaut ex-racer thoroughbred out and trust me... that horse in the wrong hands is as dangerous as any overpowered motor vehicle in the hands of a underage pisswreck of a driver.
They will scare easy, no matter how hard we try. I've had 'em freak at sticks and go nuts. And that was your everyday good pony. Any rider would have had it happen now and then. They are incredibly emotional beasts and if the rider is all tense giving some d'hiller death stares along with 6 other horseman, you can guarentee that horse is feeling a little toey and is ready to uncoil.

I've ridden these beasts in all possible enviroments in all types of weather and terrain. They are an entity of their own and will nail you if threatened. And the riders will always, I mean always, look at you like it's your own damn fault.

Firstly the bridge will be a proper concrete overpass so it should be silent.

As for people taking twitchy rather than sedate horses out to Strolo, all i can say is the following:

Stromlo is a multi user area which is open to the public. There are runners, there are people walking dogs off the lead, there are probably going to be dog sledders out there too soon and yes, there are both DH and XC cyclists.

Anyone who is dumb enough to take a flighty horse out into that environment has only themselves to blame if they're thrown off. Anyone who puts a novice rider onto a horse like that is just plain straight out irresponsible.

In at least 2 places, the equestrian trails cross over the road to stromlo summit. For a good length of trail, the equestrian trail skirts alongside the road to stromlo summit. A road with bright shiny armco railings, that is used frequently by cars, trucks and high speed road cyclists. But of course, it's the DH track crossing that's dangerous. After all, the horses might get spooked. (even though none of the other stuff bothers them evidently)

Glen and his team are doing work modifying the DH course at present. At the moment there is orange mesh stretched right across the top of the track. Anyone who misses this subtle indicator that the track is closed must be both blind and levitating 3 feet off the ground.

A multitude of signs have been put up there (10 so far I think?) but are being regularly stolen. Both Glen and CORC understand your frustration with the current setup. Reece, Morgs and I have personally spent a lot of our time on working bees to build the trails at Stromlo. We'd like them to be open as much as the next person.

At the moment, it's only the XC trails that are open.

If you ride the other trails, you put other riders at risk, you put trail workers at risk, you may damage parts of the trail under construction, you could be injured as trail conditions may have changed (oh, and you could spook a horse or two). We are as frustrated as you guys about it, but lets try and do the right thing and keep people safe.

Please don't ride the trails apart from the XC.

Thanks,

Drew
(CORC Trails Team)

 

[horsey]

The DH that will be ridden this weekend is without the start mound, road crossing bridge and finishing straight. The course will be adjusted to suit these insertions. There are sections of the downhill which are not the final course, and are re-routed temporary tracks. Riders will be riding 90% of the final product.

The MtnX that will be ridden this weekend will be the shaped track without top soil dressing, finishing straight, start gates and spectator mounds.

This quote is from a news item before the Brindabella challenge.

It suggests that the DH bridge crossing and 4X spectator mounds were to be completed for the opening of the tracks after the nationals were complete.

I am just curious as to why these deliverables have been delayed?

 

[FR Drew]

Well I know Glen has been sick this week for starters. I believe delivery of the viewing mounds is currently underway.

As for the crossing, it has to be helicoptered over from the airport as it's too big to freight on a truck. Because it's a construction it also has to go through a number of approvals processes, all of which takes time, much of which is not dictated by Glen Jacobs or CORC

 

[horsey]

I am not trying to start a fight with anyone (demo man). I was just curious.

Thanks for the explanation FR Drew!

 

[FR Drew]

Don't sweat it Horsey,

Trust me, everyone here at CORC including Demo Man are as frustrated as you guys about the place not being open.

 

[Terra bil]

As a MTB rider and a part time horse rider Im not sure why this has become such a problem. MTBers and horse riders have been sharing the forests around canberra quite happily for many years now.

I can understand the concern with horse crossing the down hill track but I feel with the right signage horse riders would happly give way to a bike traveling at 40-50km/h I know I would. The bridge sounds like a great idea. Horse riders are pretty happy as long a things do not come sneaking up behind then a a great rate. If a horse rider knows that there are entering an area with bike or cars for example generally they will ride with a little more caution as even the best trained horse will shy usually at the most unexpected things.

Im not sure what section of the horse riding community has kicked up such a fuss but generally from the horse riders I have talked to they are pretty happy with the area. Please do not blame all off us for the current situation.

As for the MTB tracks in stromlo I must say I am impressed. I rode the x country track for the first time last week and I think it is probably one of the best tracks I have ever riden on. Really looking forward to having a go on the down hill track when it opens but untill then the x country will keep me pretty happy. Well done every one involved.

 

[FR Drew]

As a MTB rider and a part time horse rider Im not sure why this has become such a problem. MTBers and horse riders have been sharing the forests around canberra quite happily for many years now.

I can understand the concern with horse crossing the down hill track but I feel with the right signage horse riders would happly give way to a bike traveling at 40-50km/h I know I would. The bridge sounds like a great idea. Horse riders are pretty happy as long a things do not come sneaking up behind then a a great rate. If a horse rider knows that there are entering an area with bike or cars for example generally they will ride with a little more caution as even the best trained horse will shy usually at the most unexpected things.

Im not sure what section of the horse riding community has kicked up such a fuss but generally from the horse riders I have talked to they are pretty happy with the area. Please do not blame all off us for the current situation.

I will PM you off thread to discuss.

We are most certainly not blaming all horse riders, there are a select minority in the equestrian community that have decided to make cycle access to Stromlo an issue.

 

[astroboy]

Update on the Stromlo Closures

As promised here is an update on the Stromlo trail closures. And unfortunately I don't know much more than the last time I postd to this discussion. I was hoping to get onto the Park Manager's earlier this week to discuss updating the Stromlo Forest Park website and getting an idea as to what was 'approved to ride' at this time. The trail maps and the description of the trails are the two areas in particular that need an overhaul. Unfortunately that was not possible, so I am aiming to meet them later this week. In the meantime I have posted a notice on the CORC website, and have also recommended to the Park Managers that they release a media statement of the delayed closures - hopefully some of the press might pick it up.

Morgs - re: the signs, according to Glen he has already posted approx 20 signs at the top of the DH saying it's closed. They just seem to go missing, likely ending up on the walls of some kids as souvenirs. I will ask the Parks guys to put up some signs re: the 4X closure at the event centre carpark, but as the manager is away until the end of the week this may not happen for a few weeks (at which time I am hoping that the 4X track at least will be reopened).

Will keep you posted.

Astro

 

[horsey]

Just a suggestion for the stromlo park...

A trail status sign could be installed. It could be located at the park entrance, or in the race central area. Something similiar to the attached sign from Whistler.

This would become more and more useful as additional xc loops and dh tracks etc are added to the park.

It could also include a notification section for informing riders of when certain trails will closed for maintenance etc.

It would also be recommended to keep this information up to date on the stromlo park website for the benefit of interstate riders.

 

[morto1980]

That's a top idea! Makes me want to visit Whistler sometime

 

[dcrofty]

Yeah I'll second that, great idea. Simple and easy.

And it doesn't even need to just have the bike tracks on it. It could have all the running and horse etc tracks as well.

 

[Nark]

How about some signs on the DH track, just before the firetrail, saying "Please get off your bike and walk across the firetrail"?

 

[astroboy]

Update on Stromlo 4X and DH Track

As promised, here is a summary of the email I got from the Govt Project Manager in charge of delivering the Stromlo Forest Park, regarding opening timeframes for the 4X and DH trails:

4X
The Govt is just waiting on the handrails to be erected at the 4X by MV Australia, and for Sth side to be provided with a gentle batter, rather than the steep slope that currently exists. After this there needs to be a formal handover from Glen certifying that the works are available for use.

The works should be complete by end of Feb 07 subject to MV Australia doing their bits and a formal handover taking place.


Downhill
The bridge has been necessary to provide a safe access for horse riders at the top equestrian trail and a bridge was the only solution that was acceptable – other, cheaper alternatives were proposed but not accepted for the equestrian representatives. National Capital Authority (who owns the land) have approved the design subject to confirming the colours with the installers. The Govt is now in the process of tendering the work of managing the construction. The Govt expects that a contractor will be appointed by the end of Feb and works would take 3-4 weeks to complete. Again formal handover from Glen would also need to occur

So in summary, 4x track hopefully completed by the end of Feb and the DH track by mid April (allowing Glen 2 weeks to come back and realign the trail to go over the new bridge). To be honest though I wouldn't be booking your accommodation just yet - too much like the typical Govt project. I'll keep you posted as details come to hand.

In the meantime, just a reminder NOT to use either the DH or the 4X track. I am in the process of providing new content for the Govt so they can update the Stromlo Forest Park website with the latest trails info and names, but it will take a few weeks.

Astro
CORC Trails Team

 

[astroboy]

Just a suggestion for the stromlo park...

A trail status sign could be installed. It could be located at the park entrance, or in the race central area. Something similiar to the attached sign from Whistler.

This would become more and more useful as additional xc loops and dh tracks etc are added to the park.

It could also include a notification section for informing riders of when certain trails will closed for maintenance etc.

It would also be recommended to keep this information up to date on the stromlo park website for the benefit of interstate riders.

Great idea Horsey. I will print this out and discuss this with the park manager on Wednesday. They are keen to meet once a week for the first couple of months which is great.

Astro
CORC Trails Team