Why I think if the USA disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't mind...

['Ross]

EDIT: 'Ross well really, they are pretty much a free target... As wrong as it is. It's basically "we can take the piss out of them because their skin is the same colour as ours."

Not saying its wrong, but if we can take the piss out of Poms, Kiwis and Yanks, we should be able to make light hearted jokes about other races without having politically correct internet heroes getting riled up.

Would also like to say that a particular action or incident is not a reflection of a whole society, something dumb happens in America doesn't equal 'all americans are stupid-heads' If we were all adjudged to be racists because of the cronulla fiasco, I'm sure many people would be unhappy about it.

And add my point before, Australia pretty much relies on America for everything, our culture, passtimes, interests and possesions are usually either American, designed by Americans, or some imitation of that in America anyway

 

[ademb]

I'd prefer it didnt just disappear, my gf just moved there...

I think you could easily get rid of the middle of America, but keep the East and West coast lol

 

[dilzy]

You all mock these blokes, but the fact is the original idea of the right to bear arms is to ensure the citizens all have more power than the governing body.

Everybody has a go until something like the new crimes act comes into being and if the government doesn't like you, you can have all sorts of restrictions imposed on you and the testimony of a police officer in court cannot be cross-examined.

So yeah criticize them all you like, but sooner or later you'll all wish you had the right to bear arms to, because it will come to a head in australia when the people have had enough and we'll be scared of the government, not the other way around like the system's supposed to work.

 

[W2ttsy]

ALL YOU GUN HATERS

why is owning a gun such a problem?

"Oh Noes the guns!"

This is the collective response from a bunch of pussy whipped ill informed nancy state posters?

Personally, as a licensed gun owner, I would prefer that Australia relaxed its gun laws a bit. Its shit hard difficult to get a weapon here, and then its bloody expensive to shoot it.

Sure crackhead shootouts happen, but why should all americans who like guns be crazy red necks? i know plenty of americans (through various forums) who treat shooting as a serious hobby and are dead serious when it comes to ownership, the four rules and supporting their cause.

I applaud the pastor for rallying to support safe carriage of guns. Obviously, he had the common sense to have weapons checked at the door. For those who carried, i'm sure they felt welcomed to share their hobby. Better than doing nothing.

i cant be bothered ranting or e warring, but im pissed off because people went for the "only in america" line before bothering to think that this story is about a paster and his congregation that enjoy guns, and thats it.

Would you be up in arms if the pastor organised a car day (watch out all those high performance people killers) or a mountain bike day (watch out you could become a quad)?

 

[madmanmark82]

You all mock these blokes, but the fact is the original idea of the right to bear arms is to ensure the citizens all have more power than the governing body.

Everybody has a go until something like the new crimes act comes into being and if the government doesn't like you, you can have all sorts of restrictions imposed on you and the testimony of a police officer in court cannot be cross-examined.

So yeah criticize them all you like, but sooner or later you'll all wish you had the right to bear arms to, because it will come to a head in australia when the people have had enough and we'll be scared of the government, not the other way around like the system's supposed to work.

Why would we become scared of the goverment? What would owning a gun change in relation to that?

 

[W2ttsy]

Why would we become scared of the goverment? What would owning a gun change in relation to that?

its not about owning the gun, its about the governments right to undo a fundamental right that has existed in the american constitution for a very long time because a few anti gun people dont like guns.

It would be no different to the government rolling on one of our fundamental rights because someone doesn't like it. Oh wait, they are trying now with the Internet Filter bill.

Two guys killed a man in my store and I did nothing.
The government came and took my neighbours away and I did nothing
The government kills my people and I did nothing
The government comes for me and there is no one left to help me.

I can't remember it exactly, but its something like that.

 

[Plankosaurus]

paranoid much??

i'm sure the government has better things to do than 'come for me' mind you, i wouldn't mind a gun or two for when the zombies come (thats right boys and girls, its WHEN, not IF....)

 

[slip]

paranoid much??

i'm sure the government has better things to do than 'come for me' mind you, i wouldn't mind a gun or two for when the zombies come (thats right boys and girls, its WHEN, not IF....)

Yeah, because it doesn't happen much. All governments treat their people exactly as they should and people never get to the point of revolt/civil war/etc.

 

[Plankosaurus]

maybe i'm just pampered here in the land of oz then. as far as i'm concerned, everythings peachy here right now, and maybe thats what they want us to think. maybe they're just buttering us all up and making us soft so that when they release the zombies of the apocalypse, we'll go down faster than $2 hookers.

but hell, as long as the goings good, i'd prefer not to bother myself stressing about hypothetical situations and get on with enjoying what i've got around me. and i know for damn sure i feel safer walking around in a country that prefers not to let citizens carry guns to the shops to get their milk in case the zombie apocalypse starts on the way home.

 

[wombat]

maybe i'm just pampered here in the land of oz then. as far as i'm concerned, everythings peachy here right now

Did you miss the mention of the web filter that the goverment is currently pushing?

Edit: wait, I see now that you're referring to gun ownership.

 

[emcgough]

I love the concept of anti-american threads. They always seem to try and oppose the whole "redneck" idea, but ironically, in a completely "redneck" fashion. Only in Australia .

 

[smeck]

......
why is owning a gun such a problem? ............

I don't think its just owning and appreciating guns that is the probelm, it's the open celebration and reverence some people have towards them. Firearms themselves aren't the bad guy, it's the people who can't walk out their front door unarmed, or feel the need to celebrate their gun ownership in church. I'm all for the right to protect your family and your property, but that would mean your guns stay at home, only leaving to go to a firing range or an armourer/gun smith. Unfortunately so many gun related deaths occur from people finding themselves in a difficult situation and having a gun at hand, or in easy reach. Then its too easy for a gun that was acquired and justified for defence to be used in offence.

The American bible belt are an interesting group, very similar to fundamental muslims in some respects. While they preach tolerance an acceptance it really only applies to those who agree with them. While the bible belt aren't extreme to the point of roadside bombs (and neither are most muslims), they are more than happy to murder doctors who do abortions and that sort of thing. Its the "eye for and eye" philophy so often found in the Old Testament/Koran/Torah and they are uncompromising in that belief. At least they've moved on from segregation, lynching blacks and marrying cousins. Unless you live in Utah of course, the you marry all of your cousins.

 

[Arete]

stuff.

Excellent post.

in 2005, 31 000 gun related fatalities ocurred in the USA. (55% were suicides.)

Is easy access to guns for a hobby worth 31 000 lives? Or even if you take out the suicides, 17 050?

 

[W2ttsy]

Excellent post.

in 2005, 31 000 gun related fatalities ocurred in the USA. (55% were suicides.)

Is easy access to guns for a hobby worth 31 000 lives? Or even if you take out the suicides, 17 050?

Is easy access to cars for convenience worth ~400 lives (this year alone) http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25702579-421,00.html

I would like you to strip out the following factors from your stats:
- illegal/stolen guns used to commit crime (murder, rape, armed robbery, etc)
- suicides

I'm sure you will find that the stats are much different for negligent discharge related deaths/injuries. Once again, its down to responsibility. Those who treat guns, cars, other dangerous things with respect, aren't normally killed. The ones that shoot irresponsibly, drive like maniacs or swim drunk are likely to die.

 

[Matt H]

I'm sure you will find that the stats are much different for negligent discharge related deaths/injuries. Once again, its down to responsibility. Those who treat guns, cars, other dangerous things with respect, aren't normally killed. The ones that shoot irresponsibly, drive like maniacs or swim drunk are likely to die.

You simply CAN'T draw parallels between cars and guns, man. Cars are designed to transport you. Guns are designed to KILL things.

 

[Techno Destructo]

You simply CAN'T draw parallels between cars and guns, man. Cars are designed to transport you. Guns are designed to KILL things.

Yeah, I agree... You're drawing a massively long bow there...

And even then, look at the percentages of people in the country who drive cars, and look at the percentage that own guns. Per capita, cars have got NOTHING on the number of people killed by guns. And if they did, I'm sure measures would be taken to rectify that.... at least to reduce that number.

As well, why remove the stats of stolen/illegal guns? Isn't the prevalence of guns in the states the main reason for nearly all the stolen/illegal guns?

 

[dhd]

Just spent a month in the States and guess what? The only guns I saw were in the hands of Police ands myself (Uzzi at firing range). I talked to many people about this exact subject and found they have pretty much the same healthy attitude towards gun ownership as we had before the government buy back scheme. Not gun toting hillbillies as we like to make them out to be, just regular people who happen to have a few guns in the cupboard at home.
Bottom line is the "bad ass" element in both countries still has access to mostly illegal firearms that will be used in crimes. Sure there will be people who use a gun to kill themselves or harm others. If they can't access a gun they will find another way. If you don't believe that you have your head in the sand.

 

[slip]

What exactly are the handgun ownership laws in Australia, just plain no?

 

[smeck]

I would like you to strip out the following factors from your stats:
- illegal/stolen guns used to commit crime (murder, rape, armed robbery, etc)
- suicides

I'm sure you will find that the stats are much different for negligent discharge related deaths/injuries. Once again, its down to responsibility. Those who treat guns, cars, other dangerous things with respect, aren't normally killed. The ones that shoot irresponsibly, drive like maniacs or swim drunk are likely to die.

There really isn't a differentiation between legal and illegal guns, it's just guns. Every gun and every bullet is potential to kill with a device designed to kill.

The military are incredibly restrictive when it comes to firearms, yet still soldiers die from accidental and/or negligent discharges, and they treat the weapons with a massive amount of respect. It's a risk soldiers knowingly and willingly accept, but when I go down to the bank or grocery shopping I do not accept the risk that I might get shot by somebody chasing a bag snatcher or car thief. Unfortunately with a weapon designed to kill it only needs a single mistake and somebody can die.

Responsible ownership requires they be locked, in a safe, with a key that kids can't find or that a burgular can't steal, and they sure as hell don't get carried around town, left in cars, or taken to church. Anyone that can do that can have all the guns in the world and I wouldn't care. Keeping them in your beside table draw is just providing a weapon for someone else to use, perhaps that person should be considered an accessory to the rape, murder, armed robbery that occurs with that weapon if stolen. Get criminals to find their own, but since most guns used in criminal activities are reported stolen by legitimate owners, good gun security will lessen illegal gun availability.

To summarise, Responsible gun owners are less likely to accidentally shoot somebody, and hopefully their guns are less likely to be involved in a deliberate shooting by somebody else. Those that shoot irresponsibly are not more likely to die, they are more likely to shoot somebody else and that person die. Maniac drivers are openly targeted by police, more openly than gun owners, and they get their cars impounded and often confiscated. Drunk swimmers can have all the Darwin awards they desire, I've never heard of a drunk swimmer killing innocent bystanders.

Slip, handguns are legal, just very heavily restricted. You can own them for work purposes or as an enthusiast, but only a real enthusiast would jump through all the hoops required. Why do you need a handgun though, you can just get one of these. Not suitable for homes with children (or people with nightmares/sleep walkers).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEVL9DhMp3U

 

[Arete]

Is easy access to cars for convenience worth ~400 lives (this year alone) http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25702579-421,00.html

I would like you to strip out the following factors from your stats:
- illegal/stolen guns used to commit crime (murder, rape, armed robbery, etc)
- suicides

I'm sure you will find that the stats are much different for negligent discharge related deaths/injuries. Once again, its down to responsibility. Those who treat guns, cars, other dangerous things with respect, aren't normally killed. The ones that shoot irresponsibly, drive like maniacs or swim drunk are likely to die.

No matter which way you manipulate the stats, several orders of magnitude more people die is the US as a result of civilian held firearms than anywhere else in the world, both in relative and absolute terms. Full stop. Period. The end.

You can argue whatever spin on it you want but you can't make that fact go away.