women only events?

[shineslike]

just wondering whether anyone knows of any women's only mtb events in australia? i was having dinner with some friends last night and talking about getting into the sport when the question came up, and it got me curious. the two girls who i was with have both got into triathlons and running in the past 12 months, but only finally took the leap to competing in events by participating in a couple of women's specific competitions. it let them try out competing in a "safe" environment.

anyway, i know that there is always a push to try to get more girls into mountain biking, and wondered whether there were any of these events, or whether people thought there might be a market for them. i know i would probably be interested in it. didn't know whether others might be too. it could make entering the sport a lot less scary.

 

[riderideride]

its really not that scary competing in MTB events. You will find most of the people who enter (including men) are really friendly and supportive, and as long as you ride with confidence and move to the side where you can so that the faster riders can pass you will have no problem at all. Give it a go! its lots of fun

 

[shineslike]

sorry - i didn't actually mean i was worried about competing in mtb events (not ready to yet - but i have just signed up for the mont, so by march i have to be). more just that running some girl's only events might be a good way to get some more girls into the sport - especially if they are for charity, like the pink triathlon series or similar.

 

[Slowpoke]

I have to say that apart from the odd fool, everyone is friendly at races. This utterly surprised me at my first race (the 24hr at old Stromlo). I was more intimidated by the thought of club races until I actually did one.

There are some seriously slow blokes out there and they are perfectly comfortable on course and they are a perfectly welcome. My point is they don't seem to be intimidated, so neither should slower women.

If girls only events are what it takes to get women started, then I would like to see that.

Club races could run an alternative or earlier race (as they do with the kids) prior to the main event. Many will have a novice race which is a good chance to have a crack.

I think we are unlikely to see commercial operators running them as stand along events as it would be uneconomical. They could test the water by offering them inside a bigger event, like they do with the kids races at a 24hr or an 8hr. Lots of women (almost racers) are coming in support of their partners/friends and the infrastructure is already there. The charity race idea is good but one thing that makes them work (on road) is the fact that you can get out on any old bike. I am not saying that you need to spend mega bucks on a mountain bike, but you do need something specific.

That said, some commercial providers are doing their bit to encourage women, not because it will make them money, but because it is the right thing to do. Bright Orange Events has offered free entry for girls teams the last two years of the 8hr Working Week Series and this has improved numbers (it has probably improved numbers of men as well, so maybe there is a commercial benefit!). Not only that, but awards of equal value are made to place getters unlike some recent large events which was shameful.

 

[riderideride]

Personally I wouldnt want to enter a womens only race before the main race (like the kids race). I like being part of MTBing as a whole. I rekon that would make it feel like we arent good enough or something.

 

[Slowpoke]

Personally I wouldnt want to enter a womens only race before the main race (like the kids race). I like being part of MTBing as a whole. I rekon that would make it feel like we arent good enough or something.

I am not suggesting that all women's races be run this way, just to provide an opportunity for those that want to have a try and dont want to leap straight into a race that includes all grades. If it is the difference between some women having a go at racing or not...

 

[Pebble]

From my understanding most races do have a womens categories, so in XC racing the women are doing generally less laps than the men and are competing against a field of women, the mens race being separate.
In Downhill there are generally very few women, for example if I wanted to race DH on my local track I would probably be competing with maybe 5 other women tops, so at least I'm guaranteed a top 5 finish Whereas in the various mens categories (masters to juniors) there could be up to 95 riders turn up!!! (I'm guessing the number here but pretty sure I'm in the ballpark).

The endurance events I'm not sure of, I know loads of people participate and at the same time but I imagine you would find that for placings or prizes women compete against women or teams against teams etc, and those from what I've heard are more about the fun and self challenge aren't they?

I think if women want to get into the sport like others have mentioned the men will be more than supportive, besides they love seeing us out there! And apart from that the only problem is finding other women riders, so perhaps having a "womens only" even is not yet viable, not until a lot more women do get into the sport and it's various constituents.

One thing is for certain, I reckon women having female riding buddies is certainly a benefit in the early stages, he he then it would be heaps of fun beating the blokes

So in Triathlon they have entire womens only events? Or is it a little like mtb where they would have both men and women racing at different times but on the same day???? Just curious. I realize that triathlon has a lot more female participation so an entire event just for women would not be un-viable at all!

 

[pinkbike]

Yeah I don't know about women's only competitive events - women's social rides I'm all for but even then I wouldn't exclude a guy that wanted to come... as long as he was happy with the "women's ride culture". By that I mean non-competitive, friendly and supportive.

I know it's all generalisations and not all women/men fit the stereotype but I generally find that a group of guys will all tend to push their limits when they are together because they are competitive against each other. Women are more likely to push their limits when they feel supported and encouraged (whether it be by other girls or guys). And everyone ejoys riding with people of their own ability and similar mentality (ie. level of death wish)

I've seen this is just about all the outdoors sports I've done, and have been lucky to do all of them is a pretty supportive environment of both girls and guys. Especially before women are confident of their own abilities I think a lot of women would benefit from this type of environment, which often comes with good female representation in a group.

There are some events out there trying to foster this culture of support and friendliness. The Rocky Trail MTB GP series is a series for 4 hour events designed for a start into enduro/mtb events. But I think you can create this as a microenvironment at larger events - a social, friendly girls 6 at the Scott can still foster than encouraging environment event though it's a larger competitive context.

I think that's the beauty of enduro racing, it doesn't matter how many laps or how fast it's just a case of getting out there and having fun. You can ride twice as slow as the champs on the course but still be in the same event and finish at the same time. So maybe instead of girls events there needs to be a way of girls finding similar minded team mates - like something on the event website.

 

[Megs:)]

I think it would be great to have more girls into mtb to even things up a bit. But as far as being in the minority goes, this is one sport where it really doesn't matter too much.

When I was about 10, I was the only girl I knew who was into skateboarding. Then as a teenager I started surfing and it was years before i was in the water at the same time as another girl - these days there are heaps more girls which is great, but back then it really was pretty intimidating doing such a male dominated sport. But guys have come a long way since then. Or maybe its just that the kind of guys who ride mountain bikes have always been cool. I've found that even though most mtb events have about 10x the number of men as women (although my club has more women than that), the guys are completely accomodating of female riders and I haven't ever for one second felt like I didn't belong. Even when I am the only girl at my club's meetings, the guys are all so nice and we all love riding bikes... I never feel like the odd one out. If you are worried about being in that minority, don't be. Mtb boys seem to all play nice!

On the other hand i think it is essential that women have their own categories to race in as we are just not as fast as guys of the same skill level. For example, at most club rounds you get a whole bunch of guys that are faster than Australia's fastest female riders. And if there are less people in our categories and we are therefore kind of assured of a good place, that's great, it will help encourage the girls who race to keep coming back.

As for separate races altogether, I'm not convinced that's a great idea. One of the things i love about our sport is that men and women ride together at the same time and the same place (if in different categories). This makes it a great family sport for young and old, male and female. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for the males we would be excluding if we were to hold "all-girl" races!

 

[shineslike]

pebble, they do hold some women's only triathlon events. they are usually meant as enticers, to get women into the sport, and are often fundraisers too. so for instance, the pink triathlons started as a fairly small series a few years ago, and are now run in six cities around australia. and i know of a few other women's specific tri events. from what i have seen (and i have participated in two of them), they are great for building the reputation of the sport, giving girls who maybe hadn't thought about tris before a go at it, and they also help girls meet other people in the sport - which means that going along to the next event is easier/friendlier. i know lots of girls who have got into the more mainstream end of the sport who started out in girl's only events.

there might not be a market for it with mtb. but i just hear so many people talking about trying to get more girls into the sport, and this seemed to be one way that it might happen. i don't imagine the races/events would be massive (and i don't actually just mean having women's categories, but definite events), but if they were publicised as a chance to try out something a bit fun and healthy, and good for charity, i think that you would be surprised at the women that might give it a go.

this is in no way meant to suggest that the men doing mtb aren't friendly, or that i think the current competitions need to change at all. but there might be women who would love to come out and ride bikes in the bush who just don't know anyone else who feels the same way, and so don't follow that impulse. this could give them that push.

anyway, it was just a thought, and clearly one that others don't seem to think is worth pursuing.

here is the pink tri website, if you want to see what i meant: http://www.triathlonpink.com.au/

 

[cam-o]

The theme that appears to be developing in this thread isn't so much that women only races are required, rather that a range of training and social rides are available to women. Pinkbike has correctly surmised that a bunch of men will turn competitive at pretty much anything and women do respond differently. I think by the time someone decides to race (of either gender) they generally have a degree of confidence in their ability to ride a certain trail, but getting to that point can be tricky.

My wife is an occasional bike rider but her thing is running. She is a member of a womens running group organised through her gym and the support, friendships and improvements she has gained over the last six months are extraordinary. She has gone from worrying about completing a fun run to currently having a serious tilt at training for a 1/2 marathon. The group meets 3 times a week and has a wide range of talent and fitness levels, but everybody there is showing huge improvements and they all hang out for the next run.

I think if the same environment can be produced for a range of female riders, then participation will grow.

 

[pinkbike]

I think the difference between Tri and Mtb is that Tri pretty much is a sport of competition - by definition. You don't just go an do a social tri or head out for an after work tri... so I can see that creating women only events in triathlon is really the only way of bring that "female friendly culture" into the sport.

However mtb has the advantage that it's necessarily a competition sport, you can go for social rides, skills rides, and even stop and have picnics (can;t see that happening in a tri ) as well as entering events and races. Because of this I think is possible to bring that "female friendly culture" into the sport without having to create female only competitions. For instance I think local clubs would benefit way more from having a regular girly group ride once a month with the odd girls skills days thrown in, than from having a specific race for women on the club race day.

If local clubs did this, and advertised it. Then girls getting into the sport could turn up confident that there'll be an encouraging and supporting group whatever their level. Once they've gained friends and confidence they may well be happy to race within the normal club race days - but it just provides a stepping stone as for most beginner girls just turning up at club race day is pretty intimidating.

 

[shineslike]

definitely agree with cam-o and pinkbike that there are other possibilities - like girls rides and skills days that can be run that might have a similar effect. and i guess those things probably just need to be reasonably widely advertised, so that girls who maybe don't have contacts within the sport already can find out about them and get to know some peeps in their local area who they might be able to ride with. after all, simple lack of knowledge is probably one of the big barriers against people entering the sport.

 

[Pebble]

Yes I guess that's probably the point you were trying to get at, womens only events that provide an entry point to even those that don't have any contacts etc.

Yes I agree, that having Womens events in a non competitive environment would be a great way to get more female involvement and it could potentially progress to those women racing. And definitely agree with the wider advertising to get those without any contacts in the sport already into it, I guess local bike shops would have a large part to play in that directing such people to their local clubs.

For me getting to know people in MTB seems to have come about hanging around forums like this, but probably even more so forums that are local (or have locals on them) to where I'm living at the time, and of course watching the racing whenever it happens to be on close to where I live.

Come to think of it going to local races just to watch, seeing how it all works and getting to know a few people that race them, and then more particularly meeting ladies that are racing or going to certainly does seem to make the whole thing much less scary, of course this is probably all an easier process for DH racing rather than say XC, particularly if you're there to watch and you don't actually know anyone in particular!

 

[shineslike]

yep, that's exactly it pebble. i mean, just from personal experience, i didn't really know mtb existed as a sport until pi11wizard got into it - and even then i didn't really realise that girls did it (or thought they were all REALLY hardcore). so i guess it's just even making people aware that these things exist, and that girls can absolutely get involved.

how that all happens - i am not absolutely sure. but that's one reason i thought of girl-specific events (be they comps, or just social rides that are publicised slightly wider than just within the club and forums like this).

 

[Slowpoke]

Canberra Off-road Cyclists (CORC) hosts a regular Women's ride, once per month here in Canberra and extra rides leading up to the Scott 24hr. CORC also runs a women’s skills camp.

Lots of informal networking happens as a result of these activities. We have a seriously large number of women who ride here (XC) and we have all of those other supportive activities happening that Pink Bike and Cam-O suggested and still women don’t race.

If I understand correctly, the concern that many female riders have (who are might be interested in racing) is a matter of perception. No matter how much we all assert that women are welcome at mixed events that wont change the fact that some women don't feel safe or feel a bit embarrassed if they are still getting the hang of it. I think we need to listen to that an entertain the idea of some women only events. Once we get a bit of momentum, hopefully those events will become redundant.

Personally I wouldn’t like all races to be segregated, but I can see the value in a few specialised events to get folks started.

If anyone is riding in Canberra and is looking for some other women to ride with, contact the Women’s development officer at CORC or PM me.

BTW, there is a CORC club race this weekend at Sparrow Hill (which has gained a reputation as Canberra’s girl-friendly venue), then one on 22 Nov (Stromlo – unlikely to include anything particularly scary) and 13 Dec (Majura – mind the tree roots).

 

[pinkbike]

That's explains why there were so many women out riding at Sparrows the weekend after the Scott... I've never seen so many mtb girls in one place Good on CORC - they seem to have everything so sorted, I know some friends did the skills camp weekend and loved it.

 

[Slowpoke]

That's explains why there were so many women out riding at Sparrows the weekend after the Scott... I've never seen so many mtb girls in one place Good on CORC - they seem to have everything so sorted, I know some friends did the skills camp weekend and loved it.

In some respects yes, they do, but it was a grave mistake at the Scott 24hr to not invite teams (women) onto the podium that came second where there were only two teams in the category. CORC admits that was a mistake, but they still seem to defend the policy to not award prizes to such teams.

I take the view that if they ride a good race into second you make the award. These teams have entered the race in good faith and they cannot control the fact that there are not more teams to compete against in their category. Who is to say that they would not have ridden into second had there been a field of 20.

I would like to hear if anyone knows of that happening at other races. It is time to out them!

 

[pinkbike]

That's very true - I thought it detracted from the achievement of the teams that came 2nd in two-team-categories but it also belittled the achievement of the winners in those categories... no-one wants to stand on the three tiered podium alone.

They could always implement a %age of laps rule to make sure they don't award prizes to teams who didn't put in a good race. Like 2nd place has to do at least 50% (or whatever) of the winner's lap total to be eligible for prizes.

Then as far as I know they awarded a prize to the female pair (and well-deserved too - with a result that would have placed them well even in mens pairs) while they were the only team in their category.

 

[Cypher]

I'm currently in NZ having an MTB holiday and I am absolutely floored with the amount of women they get riding over here.

There are heaps of teenaged girls riding mtb, and even more middle-aged women! In fact just generally there are way more people riding. I'm in Napier and they have a 2000 strong club! 2000! This town is tiny!

What I can put it down to is that the trails over here are not overly technical - they just have a lot of topography. Every trail is well bermed so that if you are a good rider or just a punter it is fun for everyone.

Where as in rocky sandy Aus there is a minimum level of technique you need in order to have a good ride (other wise you have to walk over the rock sections, which is no fun). I think this puts people off a bit.