XX1 Cassette Installation

[99_FGT]

Firstly - let me start by apologising if this has been covered before. The search function not allowing any terms less than 4 characters gets me every time... (Allowing specific terms such as XX1, X01, XTR, XT, XX, X0 etc would be nice!)

I have got an XX1 cassette that is to go onto a TWE wheelset with their own driver.
When I try and tighten the cassette, I get it to a point where it feels tight (not comfortable to go any further), but it is still sitting out 2mm from the end of the hub. This leads to binding of the cassette when the axle is tightened up, and the chain rubbing on the frame?
Any suggestions other than putting the elbow into it? Cassette and freehub interface have been greased.
Anyone installed one on TWE hubs before??
Cheers,
Edit - borrowed a different cassette tool off a mate, as mine was very snug around the axle. Closer, but still cigarless.
Tried installing without the axle end cap - hey bl00dy presto. Hand tight to 0.5mm, snugged all the way on with minimal fuss. But now I have no end caps...
Garr!


Al..

 

[gregp]

How do you know the Cassette has another 2mm to go? What are you measuring it relative to?

When the threads between the cassette and the free hub engage you will feel the wrench resistance increase from zero to a level that will tell you that you are not just sliding the cassette on but pressing it onto the driver. However, if you feel like you got to the point where the treads have bottomed out and the wrench does not want to turn further I'd stop there. It feels very similar to installing a splined crankset.

My driver is DT Swiss, but assuming all brands are the same design down to the number of thread turns, you should expect 5 full turns from when the threads engage to when they bottom out.

Binding in the frame could also mean XX1 is not compatible with your frame. E.g. I've read about the XX1 cassette being too large for the Pivot Mach 6. Apparently Pivot supply an additional axle spacer for XX1 setups to solve the issue of chain rubbing on the stays when in the smallest gears.

 

[mitchy_]

have you spoken to TWE?

also, as you mention it works without the end caps, is the cassette fouling on the cap, or is your tool bottoming out on the cap before the cassette is installed correctly?

 

[gregp]

or is your tool bottoming out on the cap before the cassette is installed correctly?

^^^ this

Just read your "edit". Have a look at this thread, it may help:

http://forums.mtbr.com/sram/x01-cassette-removal-park-fr-5-a-900213.html

 

[99_FGT]

^^^ this

Just read your "edit". Have a look at this thread, it may help:

http://forums.mtbr.com/sram/x01-cassette-removal-park-fr-5-a-900213.html

Using my tool, I thought it was the tool binding against the end cap. Using my mates shimano one, it goes on much easier but the cassette still binds against the end cap.
There is a visible gap at the back of the cassette, hence why I think it isn't all the way on.
Being a long weekend, Greg @twe is no doubt enjoying a break.
Just seeing if there is anything obvious I'm missing here...

 

[pistonbroke]

Pics? My cheap cassette tool wouldn't clear the end caps of formula hubs. I ended up grinding out the inside of the tool to make the inside diameter bigger. It's still a snug fit but there's just enough room to get the cassette on.
Does the XX1 still use a standard cassette tool?

 

[99_FGT]

It is not the tool fouling - the (my mates) tool is not binding at all. OK - that came out wrong...

This is the driver without and with the end cap installed (142x12 axle)




And the cassette mounted without the end cap

And with

There is a good 1-2mm extra space with the end cap on, and the axle is locked to the freehub. Without the end cap the axle turns freely independent of the freehub.
At the moment I am thinking I'll have to grind the 'guard' off the end cap - that is where I think it is fouling and it doesn't appear to do anything anyway.
Al..

 

[The Duckmeister]

I know it's a pain in the arse with the long weekend, but I'd wait until you can talk it through with TWE & see what they have to say before hacking into things.

Two reasons: one - you won't have a leg to stand on warranty-wise if you stuff something up modding it yourself, better to let the manufacturer sort it out; and two - if it's a fundamental design flaw, then giving the necessary feedback to TWE will alert them to the issue and give them the opportunity to resolve it, and save further headaches for them from other customers having the same problem down the track.

 

[gregp]

You'd hope it's not a design flaw. It's an XD driver, it would mean TWE did not even test the driver with the one and only cassette on the market it needs to be able to work with. I doubt that is the case. The only thing I can think of is you've been supplied the wrong end cap or it is not installed correctly on the axle. Did the end cap come with XD the driver?

 

[ozdavo]

Stupid question... Can you put the end caps on after the cassette is installed?


Sent from my iThingy using Tapatalk

 

[99_FGT]

The only thing I can think of is you've been supplied the wrong end cap or it is not installed correctly on the axle. Did the end cap come with XD the driver?

No - assumed I used the same end cap since it didn't come with one. I'm thinking I have the wrong ones too since they didn't sit flush with the old freehub either.

Stupid question... Can you put the end caps on after the cassette is installed?

No - the small flange / guard on the end cap prevents it from going into the cassette

I know it's a pain in the arse with the long weekend, but I'd wait until you can talk it through with TWE & see what they have to say before hacking into things.

Two reasons: one - you won't have a leg to stand on warranty-wise if you stuff something up modding it yourself, better to let the manufacturer sort it out; and two - if it's a fundamental design flaw, then giving the necessary feedback to TWE will alert them to the issue and give them the opportunity to resolve it, and save further headaches for them from other customers having the same problem down the track.

Yep - it is a pita, as everything else is all set up to go. Might convert back to 1x10 so I can at least ride it (or stick to the roadie, but conditions up here are perfect)
Resigned myself to waiting out a response, but whilst Greg is very responsive, this isn't the first time I've had to 'resolve' issues that shouldn't exist...

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions guys - I just wanted to see if there was anything obvious I'd missed...

Yours with no gears...
Al..

 

[mitchy_]

You'd hope it's not a design flaw. It's an XD driver, it would mean TWE did not even test the driver with the one and only cassette on the market it needs to be able to work with. I doubt that is the case. The only thing I can think of is you've been supplied the wrong end cap or it is not installed correctly on the axle. Did the end cap come with XD the driver?

given that most XD drivers i've seen have a new end cap, i'd be inclined to think you're using the wrong one as per gregp....

 

[Mike95]

interested to know if you got this sorted with the 11 speed cassette
what did Greg & TWE say?

 

[99_FGT]

interested to know if you got this sorted with the 11 speed cassette
what did Greg & TWE say?

Mike - is sorted - sort of...
Greg @ TWE didn't have another end cap - but was going to get in touch with the factory to find out what the go is as all the ones sold to date have been XD out of the factory.
He suggested I could send down the end cap to get it to fit up, or I could take the small flange off myself which I did - only thing is I had to take 1.6mm off so there is not much left to hold the seal in place, and I'm not 100% it isn't snagging somewhere (can't see it, but the cassette spins with the wheel with no tension on it).
Will be in touch with him next week to sort it properly - in the meantime I'd say hold off on TWE XD conversions - by all accounts the OEM XD hubs are fine

Al..

 

[Gripo]

Out of XX1/01 interest I've noticed Hope P2 Evo's end cap/adapter (X12) are a tight fit when it comes to getting the lock ring tool over it.....

I might have to shave some alloy off the alloy end cap/adapter too...

 

[Gripo]

Ok, thisarvo a bit of my own revelation from my post above...

I took off the X12 Hope end cap/spacer before installing the cassette lockring tool....goes much deeper to get more purchase on the splines and surprise, surprise......

The cassette came straight off like they normally do, without any tapping from behind.

So...if your hub/axle allows you to remove the driveside end cap do so....