2009/2010 Vic State Series info!!!

[notso]

I did have plans to add new lines to the Barjarg race track to make it harder/more exciting. But, after last years state round I am not sure if riders know the limits of their skills. The track is seriously not hard at all if you ride within your limits and take the easier lines. Yet, there was still wayyy to many people hurting themselves... Now I'm thinking that I should take out some of the harder lines.

Hey Sam,

I was one of the guys who was carted off to hospital on the saturday. My crash was just an accident, it was actually in the flat part after a steep technical section where you jump over a fallen tree... I just landed a bit skewed and hit a tree. Silly mistake due to being tired on one of the easiest parts of the track. nothing else.
Please don't make the track easier... it's challenging, technical stuff is what makes it such a good track

 

[jmurphy]

Has anyone though of certain a-lines being closed for certain categories. I mean people doing LG road gap in sport, seriously!!!
This would help move up some of the sand baggers, it would help reduce the injury count and make riders progress more steadly, not just balls up and injure them selfs.
Say Novice compulsory take all b-lines, sport take most of the b-lines with certain harder a-lines closed, expert and elite all lines are open if the riders wish to take them.

Maybe have novice do B-Lines but it should be open to everyone else, and if people are worried about hurting themselves they shouldn't do Downhill. Its a dangerous sport where injuries do happen!!

James

 

[kill_switch]

I still think its a good idea, killing to birds with one stone
*bandbagers
*people ridding out of their limits and hurting them selfs because of it.

 

[Jonmac7]

Interested bystander

Great to see the guts, determination and dedication as the riders flash by - some with various bits of protection, some with none.

Because everything will be ok - so long as everthing IS OK - until a tree or rock moves, there needs to be a minimum protection level applied to riders of helmet, neckbrace, pads for knees and elbows. If this cannot be applied - to save people from themselves; then there needs to be a sliding scale on the entry fee where the insurance component is concerned.

Standard protection also means that everyone is "handicapped" i.e. has movement restricted or carries additional weight, to the same degree.

Pad up and its cheaper all round - in hospital time and in the wallet and by the way, there would possibly be less downtime on clearing accidents as the injuries might be of a lesser nature.

Lets make a fabulous series even better - and safer

 

[ajay]

I have held back on this forum as I believe there are better and far more productive places in which any ideas I might have could be aired. However, if only to generate some debate, here goes:

1) Drop 17s and Expert Qualifying.

Victoria is unique in having this arrangement and I believe there are a number of reasons why it should not continue:

> Having these riders in the finals pushes out the finish time of races. This is annoying for riders and spectators alike for obvious reasons (eg: no spectators hanging around for finals or presentation, racing in twilight, getting home late from the race event).

> Including these categories in finals dilutes the importance, prestige even, accorded to qualifiers runs. This is a serious point. People want to hang around and watch the top riders come down the hill at the end of the day. Also, and in addition, the move from 'Elite' to 'Expert' has to be incentivised. Like it or not, at state races 'Expert' is a 'fun' category - these riders have elected not to push things in the top category and therefore they should race with the rest of the field like everyone else. When such riders do wish to take their racing more seriously, the option is open to them to move up a category. Simple.

> Finally, and a point I will get back to, Downhilling needs to keep its professional image. Keeping the top riders separate at the end of the day makes the pinnacle of the sport something special, something to watch, and something for younger riders to aim for.

2) Do not have novelty prizes at racing events.

> A few people have suggested prizes for "best costume", "biggest crash" and the like. These kinds of events make downhilling into a joke sport and cheapen the whole scene. Keep it professional.

3) Communal track walk

>Some have suggested that more skills days are needed to help Victorian riders get better results nationally and internationally. No doubt this is true. These events require as much, if not more organisation than racing days. I think a happy medium may be found in having a communal walk through led by one or a number of elite riders at the end of saturday practice to show younger and less experienced riders a few lines and give tips on how to hit sections. I know this may be difficult on longer tracks, however, even if this option is reserved for shorter tracks I believe it has much utility in imparting some racing knowledge on the upcoming generation of racers with little organisational hassel.

+1

Great idea with the track walking option.

I think the '19's and elite only' qualifying is a sentiment share by all except those who refuse to actually move up a catagory.

 

[Sethius]

Great to see the guts, determination and dedication as the riders flash by - some with various bits of protection, some with none.

Because everything will be ok - so long as everthing IS OK - until a tree or rock moves, there needs to be a minimum protection level applied to riders of helmet, neckbrace, pads for knees and elbows. If this cannot be applied - to save people from themselves; then there needs to be a sliding scale on the entry fee where the insurance component is concerned.

Standard protection also means that everyone is "handicapped" i.e. has movement restricted or carries additional weight, to the same degree.

Pad up and its cheaper all round - in hospital time and in the wallet and by the way, there would possibly be less downtime on clearing accidents as the injuries might be of a lesser nature.

Lets make a fabulous series even better - and safer

Hmm neckbrace is an overkill, what bout the people beginning with rjag $119 dollar helmets(FF is compulsory is it not?). Thats forcing the sport to be even more for the rich amongst us. If i had to have a neckbrace or all the gear when i started- i wouldnt of. No one in hell could i of afforded that.

I dont think its a handicap, with armour you harder push faster because you know your protected- a catch 22 reallly.

And sam- the other young guy on the HT who crashed and got taken to hossie, he was out of his depths he shouldnt of been riding, was his first ever time doing downhill. Barjarg isnt the place for that.


link- Glad to see someone agree with the idea of the walk as a compromise solution to the lack of training camp/days.If i was older and faster, id be happy to do it. Going to try and make it to the rounds again this year and do some marshalling. (i crash in every race run anyways )

just outta curiosity, how much would volunteers being happy to be "paid" to do a days marshaling as a incentive to bring them in?

 

[jmurphy]

Great to see the guts, determination and dedication as the riders flash by - some with various bits of protection, some with none.

Because everything will be ok - so long as everthing IS OK - until a tree or rock moves, there needs to be a minimum protection level applied to riders of helmet, neckbrace, pads for knees and elbows. If this cannot be applied - to save people from themselves; then there needs to be a sliding scale on the entry fee where the insurance component is concerned.

Standard protection also means that everyone is "handicapped" i.e. has movement restricted or carries additional weight, to the same degree.

Pad up and its cheaper all round - in hospital time and in the wallet and by the way, there would possibly be less downtime on clearing accidents as the injuries might be of a lesser nature.

Lets make a fabulous series even better - and safer

I agree with what your saying with it being great to see guts and determination, although I think the Compolsary armour is a bit stupid, its the rider's choice how much they wear, and if they crash and get injured its there own fault for not wearing armour. I dont wear armour (except at Barjarg) and lots of people think its stupid, Its not so I look tough and brave but because I feel i can move more freely without it!! And lets just remember that Downhill isn't safe, the reason so many people love it is because its risky and gets your heart racing, so dont take away the hard stuff, It gives people something to work towards, in terms of being able to clear that jump or do that drop!! We dont want all our tracks to be like ABOM!!!

James

 

[at the drive in]

The removal of qualifying from expert is great idea as it add's prestige to elite and U/19's and will force some riders to move up but as a result we may see some riders move down to sport for an easier win as riders may see the classes as pretty much the same due to neither have qualifying, turning sport into even more of a sandbagging class.

A way to combat this would be close A lines for sport riders on certain parts of the track, this could also avoid some crashes were riders have move confidence then skills. Many riders would move up simply to be able to ride the better parts of the track
At the end of the day sport is meant to be a beginners class so if they are hitting certain A lines then chances are they shouldn't be in sport.

 

[ajay]

Hmm neckbrace is an overkill, what bout the people beginning with rjag $119 dollar helmets(FF is compulsory is it not?). Thats forcing the sport to be even more for the rich amongst us. If i had to have a neckbrace or all the gear when i started- i wouldnt of. No one in hell could i of afforded that.

Agreed.

Neck injuries arent overly prevalent anyway, I crash my brains out on a regular basis and not once has my neck been even slightly damaged. Sure its a possibility, but its certainly no likely. If people want to spend $1000 (or what ever the huge price they are charging) to protect themselves, go for it, but its too expensive to make them mandatory.

In terms of protection though, having done plenty of damage to my ankle joints over the years, (when I say plenty, i mean my joints may need to be fused later on), and observed plenty of others doing the same (shoulders, ankles wrists etc), I think there could be a business - possibly for the 1st aiders - in pre race support strapping. Having your joints properly strapped can easily be the difference between season ending sprains and slight tweaks. I would pay for that.

Ive digressed...

Back on topic...

 

[ajay]

The removal of qualifying from expert is great idea as it add's prestige to elite and U/19's and will force some riders to move up but as a result we may see some riders move down to sport for an easier win as riders may see the classes as pretty much the same due to neither have qualifying, turning sport into even more of a sandbagging class.

A way to combat this would be close A lines for sport riders on certain parts of the track, this could also avoid some crashes were riders have move confidence then skills. Many riders would move up simply to be able to ride the better parts of the track
At the end of the day sport is meant to be a beginners class so if they are hitting certain A lines then chances are they shouldn't be in sport.

The problems with that are:

1. There are few tracks that have specific 'A-lines' that are actually difficult. The A-line might simply be gapping a rock garden at speed which is otherwise ridable at slow pace. The road gap at Long gully isnt difficult, daunting maybe, but there are harder jumps on that track alone that aren't considered a lines. Bargarg may be an exception here - ive not ridden there.

2. Closing A-lines for the lower classes in not conducive to improvement.


There simply should just be more scrutiny aimed at those who are winning the lower catagories. If you gain a top 3, more than once, (in expert for example) your times should be given a simple cross check to the elite times. If your times would have qualified you for eilte, then bam, you have to move up.

 

[Lube]

There simply should just be more scrutiny aimed at those who are winning the lower catagories. If you gain a top 3, more than once, (in expert for example) your times should be given a simple cross check to the elite times. If your times would have qualified you for eilte, then bam, you have to move up.

Definitely agree with this, maybe even look at bringing it out to top 5 to get those that lurk bagging it out behind the regular top 3 riders.

 

[kill_switch]

The removal of qualifying from expert is great idea as it add's prestige to elite and U/19's and will force some riders to move up but as a result we may see some riders move down to sport for an easier win as riders may see the classes as pretty much the same due to neither have qualifying, turning sport into even more of a sandbagging class.

A way to combat this would be close A lines for sport riders on certain parts of the track, this could also avoid some crashes were riders have move confidence then skills. Many riders would move up simply to be able to ride the better parts of the track
At the end of the day sport is meant to be a beginners class so if they are hitting certain A lines then chances are they shouldn't be in sport.

Yer thats what i was aiming at.
Also has anyone though of getting rid of novice and renaming sport beginners? Discuss

The problems with that are:

1. There are few tracks that have specific 'A-lines' that are actually difficult. The A-line might simply be gapping a rock garden at speed which is otherwise ridable at slow pace. The road gap at Long gully isnt difficult, daunting maybe, but there are harder jumps on that track alone that aren't considered a lines. Bargarg may be an exception here - ive not ridden there.

2. Closing A-lines for the lower classes in not conducive to improvement.


There simply should just be more scrutiny aimed at those who are winning the lower catagories. If you gain a top 3, more than once, (in expert for example) your times should be given a simple cross check to the elite times. If your times would have qualified you for eilte, then bam, you have to move up.

I have to disagree. Not starting an e-fight, just a discussion. Yes there are certain lines where simply gaping something is the a-line, but there are many other track other than barjarg where this could be applyed.
Like i said theres 2 reason why this would be good, sand bagging, which you have covered with more scrutiny. I think this is another good idea.
But it would also help reduce all the little kidies trying barjarg rock chute and youies double rock drop when there ARE b-lines around them. All the people who think they are comfortable do these lines should not be in the catagory.
I dont know. Food for though.

 

[ajay]

I have to disagree. Not starting an e-fight, just a discussion. Yes there are certain lines where simply gaping something is the a-line, but there are many other track other than barjarg where this could be applyed.
Like i said theres 2 reason why this would be good, sand bagging, which you have covered with more scrutiny. I think this is another good idea.
But it would also help reduce all the little kidies trying barjarg rock chute and youies double rock drop when there ARE b-lines around them. All the people who think they are comfortable do these lines should not be in the catagory.
I dont know. Food for though.

A discussion is what it is man! Im just throwing my thoughts in as well.

 

[woody 14]

ok i think all this crap about closeing alines to sport and novice is just dumb. my reasons being: if this did go ahead then alot of the sport and novice riders will just think "stuff this, im just out there to have some fun and know they are forcing us to take the shit lines just because we dont take it as serous as so of the other riders".
i think its a dumb move.
anyway just my 2c

 

[-Troy-]

just outta curiosity, how much would volunteers being happy to be "paid" to do a days marshaling as a incentive to bring them in?

I've been marshaling because of injury and as long as I get something to eat and drink then I'm pretty stoked.

 

[Lukeflow1]

ok i think all this crap about closeing alines to sport and novice is just dumb. my reasons being: if this did go ahead then alot of the sport and novice riders will just think "stuff this, im just out there to have some fun and know they are forcing us to take the shit lines just because we dont take it as serous as so of the other riders".
i think its a dumb move.
anyway just my 2c

I agree with woody, everyone should be free to take a-lines, people should know their limits and lets not forget that this is a dangerous sport and crashes happen.

 

[kill_switch]

A discussion is what it is man! Im just throwing my thoughts in as well.

Haha thats kool ajay,i was just trying to be polite. I dont want to end up like Jeff Kennett

ok i think all this crap about closeing alines to sport and novice is just dumb. my reasons being: if this did go ahead then alot of the sport and novice riders will just think "stuff this, im just out there to have some fun and know they are forcing us to take the shit lines just because we dont take it as serous as so of the other riders".
i think its a dumb move.
anyway just my 2c

What it comes down to is that if you can do certain a-lines then you shouldent be in that category. And riders who cant do them or do them well will have no choice but to risk it to stay competitive. Thats when accidents happen

 

[Ozza]

Jeeeeeeez..
- Blocking of lines for certain categories.... rubbish. Its peoples responsibilities to ride within there boundaries. The only limitations in downhill, should be the ones people put on themselves.
- Expert shouldnt have qualifying.
-Once you have won a race, If your time is 10 percent above the last qaulifying rider (relating to expert/elite) or the average time (relating to novice/sport) you should have to move up a class. It shouldnt be top 3 or 5, racings about having fun and in some peoples cases winning, forcing somebody up who hasent experienced victory isnt fair.
- All qualifying riders/age catergories should be sent down based on series standings to eliminate the chances of catching the person infront of them rather than increasing the gap between riders.

 

[AMBURGERS]

haha sounds like Jazza better move up to Elite .

another track to think about for running a race at in the next few years could be Red hill/eatons cutting, some of the guys down there are pretty keen to get some racing happening. Track would need a bit of maintanence but there are some great tracks with a bit of everything.

 

[kill_switch]

does anyons have any aguments against the line closing other than "people can take what risks they want"

Also ive noticed that on the home page of farkin reaults to other australian series such as the sunline series and the NSW series. I think it would be good for our series to have our results up there to. It would help increase peoples awearness of our great series.