2009/2010 Vic State Series info!!!
- Thread starter swanny
- Start date
aceyone
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Let me guess... you're U19 but you're thinking you'll soon be racing Elite, right? Why run qual's for U19 but not Expert and no other age-categories?
Scrutineering was scrapped for road-bikes years ago: "You told me my bike was OK to race and it broke and now I can't walk and it can't possibly be my fault so I'm gonna sue your arse!" It's your bike -- you look after it and decide whether it's race-worthy.
Great idea -- which sponsors are you going to bring?
Ahhh... so you're not just an U19 rider, but you're good and you want us all to know it. It's an intimidating step from Club races to the State Series as it is.
I volunteered at Beauty on Sunday and felt I was well looked after. I was given a decent lunch, drink and personal thanks as we got out of the 4WD at the bottom (Thanks Andrew).
By the way, Juzz -- you do an awesome job, fella. It's harder than it looks to keep the banter going (and the heckling) and it's great to have the comentary as riders are crossing the line.
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Mr King
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We appreciate all the comments guys/girls, keep it going, and try not to bag each other out to much.... oh and by the way Crooks is just making suggestions and he isn't an U19 rider so don't judge a book by the cover...
We are taking all of this in and so far (nearly) everyone has made some great points and raised some issues that we will try to deal with.
We are taking all of this in and so far (nearly) everyone has made some great points and raised some issues that we will try to deal with.
ajay
^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
Get your hand off it!
Its a damn valid point, tracks do need to be technically challenging for all catagories, not that there isn't challenging tracks in the series, but making riders really work hard to put a run together is pertenent to harnessing and building the skills of younger riders.
Is there a step from club races to state races? There virtually zero stand alone club races anyway, pretty much all racing in Vic is done in the State Series. If and when there are stand alone races, most folk who race the state series will show up anyway.
Lastly, you clearly have no idea who you are actually replying to anyway, so dont make those assumptions, it doesnt really enforce your argument.
Wisey
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I can feel some flaming coming on...don't f%$k with Cruikshank.
This thread was created to throw up some ideas which it has, some good, some not so, I could carry on about how bad some of these ideas are but have not. I suggest next time you try flame someone, at least do your research on who you choose to flame first!
Because they're the two fastest classes. Sunday would've turned into Monday this past weekend if 20 Expert riders and the 23 odd U17's had a second run.
Who are you to point the finger?
We already know how fast he is and I totally agree with him, make the tracks harder with appropriate "B" lines around the tech stuff, separates those who can ride from those who can't. Makes everyone progress. This is a State series, not kindergarden.
This thread was created to throw up some ideas which it has, some good, some not so, I could carry on about how bad some of these ideas are but have not. I suggest next time you try flame someone, at least do your research on who you choose to flame first!
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aceyone
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Heh, heh... I'll be the first to admit I'm far from the fastest around and that I have no idea who 'Crooks' is... but I do disagree with some of what he said. I would imagine most of the bods on here are riders that I quite respect... I have nothing personal against anyone (far from it, in fact) except I'd love to see our racing more 'inclusive' to encourage even more riders and help our sport continue to grow.
jmurphy
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NUMBER 1: DONT MESS WITH CRUIKSHANKS!!
AND 2: The idea of Expert not having qualifying is also to make some of them move into elite, and make the Elite competition a bit better, there are to many sandbaggers in Expert and they need to move into Elite, this idea would inforce that!!!
oh and Cruikshanks races in elite not u/19s so dont go talking like you know everthing!
James
just out of curiosity, how many of Australia's international downhill riders come from victoria compared to other states?
if lacking( even if not to increase), why is this? is it due to our tracks not being technically proficient, the lack of talent or sponsorship? financial situations?
We've got the places to produce these type of riders, what needs to be done to raise our riders to this level as a community?
Isnt after all our state series a stepping stone for those potential Hill's/rennies/hannah's to come through and develop their skills/racecraft.
should we have more clinics, i know the last one i went to at barjarg with Bryn was great, would be there be people willing to suggest lines to riders. eg a walk through for novice/junior riders before practice begins.
if lacking( even if not to increase), why is this? is it due to our tracks not being technically proficient, the lack of talent or sponsorship? financial situations?
We've got the places to produce these type of riders, what needs to be done to raise our riders to this level as a community?
Isnt after all our state series a stepping stone for those potential Hill's/rennies/hannah's to come through and develop their skills/racecraft.
should we have more clinics, i know the last one i went to at barjarg with Bryn was great, would be there be people willing to suggest lines to riders. eg a walk through for novice/junior riders before practice begins.
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Wisey
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Spot on James. You are way smarter than you look...
CrookS
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Well ace your profiling skills need some work. I was in 19's once.
The few ideas you came up with were really good. I would just like to say that your points are stupid and you havent had much time to think about it. I hope your not one of these greeny types that wants everyone to be able to be winners and not to hurt anyones feelings. The only way a rider will progress is by making it harder for them. The Vic scene is one of the worst in australia as far a talent is concerned. Sure there is fast guys but the vics have never had that real stand out at nats and worlds. QLD and NSW are the main players. These places are the places where they build a hard track that everyone struggles to ride so everyone has to learn. Instead of pussy footing around the hill and making it easy so everyone can do it. I would be more then happy to have some hard technical thing i cant ride so i have to learn. If your happy to sit back and watch the vic scene become a kindy playground good on ya. maybe you should start a club where you dont run timing its just a pat on the back when you get to the bottom. That way everyone will be a winner and we can live in a happy little fantasy land where everyone gets ahead.
As for scruitineering i think it would be better then leaving it just upto the person riding. A waiver would easily fix that.
As for elite and 19 quals only. i have been racing for a long time and back in the day it was only ever that. So why the change now. Day goes quicker. 19's should run qualifying becasuse in natural progression its 17 19 elite so it makes more then enough sense.
As for sponsors. How did my suggestion indicate that i was in any way or form able to bring a sponsor.
Thanks to all that helped out
The few ideas you came up with were really good. I would just like to say that your points are stupid and you havent had much time to think about it. I hope your not one of these greeny types that wants everyone to be able to be winners and not to hurt anyones feelings. The only way a rider will progress is by making it harder for them. The Vic scene is one of the worst in australia as far a talent is concerned. Sure there is fast guys but the vics have never had that real stand out at nats and worlds. QLD and NSW are the main players. These places are the places where they build a hard track that everyone struggles to ride so everyone has to learn. Instead of pussy footing around the hill and making it easy so everyone can do it. I would be more then happy to have some hard technical thing i cant ride so i have to learn. If your happy to sit back and watch the vic scene become a kindy playground good on ya. maybe you should start a club where you dont run timing its just a pat on the back when you get to the bottom. That way everyone will be a winner and we can live in a happy little fantasy land where everyone gets ahead.
As for scruitineering i think it would be better then leaving it just upto the person riding. A waiver would easily fix that.
As for elite and 19 quals only. i have been racing for a long time and back in the day it was only ever that. So why the change now. Day goes quicker. 19's should run qualifying becasuse in natural progression its 17 19 elite so it makes more then enough sense.
As for sponsors. How did my suggestion indicate that i was in any way or form able to bring a sponsor.
Thanks to all that helped out
lol, go easy there Wisey! He looks pretty smart too!
Venciferus
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aceyone said:
Admirable, well said.
It'd be pretty hard to make existing tracks more difficult? So you'd just have to say in the future build tracks harder.
samsty
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I did have plans to add new lines to the Barjarg race track to make it harder/more exciting. But, after last years state round I am not sure if riders know the limits of their skills. The track is seriously not hard at all if you ride within your limits and take the easier lines. Yet, there was still wayyy to many people hurting themselves... Now I'm thinking that I should take out some of the harder lines.
CrookS
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Thanks ace..
Sammy u just need more padded trees. Its natural progression to axe yourself then learn.
Maybe people will be less likely to throw themselves down things if there is alot of harder stuff across board not just one track. Sort of a false sense of security.
Barjarg perfect example. Pros love it and so does everyone else because it challenges everyone.
Sammy u just need more padded trees. Its natural progression to axe yourself then learn.
Maybe people will be less likely to throw themselves down things if there is alot of harder stuff across board not just one track. Sort of a false sense of security.
Barjarg perfect example. Pros love it and so does everyone else because it challenges everyone.
I have held back on this forum as I believe there are better and far more productive places in which any ideas I might have could be aired. However, if only to generate some debate, here goes:
1) Drop 17s and Expert Qualifying.
Victoria is unique in having this arrangement and I believe there are a number of reasons why it should not continue:
> Having these riders in the finals pushes out the finish time of races. This is annoying for riders and spectators alike for obvious reasons (eg: no spectators hanging around for finals or presentation, racing in twilight, getting home late from the race event).
> Including these categories in finals dilutes the importance, prestige even, accorded to qualifiers runs. This is a serious point. People want to hang around and watch the top riders come down the hill at the end of the day. Also, and in addition, the move from 'Elite' to 'Expert' has to be incentivised. Like it or not, at state races 'Expert' is a 'fun' category - these riders have elected not to push things in the top category and therefore they should race with the rest of the field like everyone else. When such riders do wish to take their racing more seriously, the option is open to them to move up a category. Simple.
> Finally, and a point I will get back to, Downhilling needs to keep its professional image. Keeping the top riders separate at the end of the day makes the pinnacle of the sport something special, something to watch, and something for younger riders to aim for.
2) Do not have novelty prizes at racing events.
> A few people have suggested prizes for "best costume", "biggest crash" and the like. These kinds of events make downhilling into a joke sport and cheapen the whole scene. Keep it professional.
3) Communal track walk
>Some have suggested that more skills days are needed to help Victorian riders get better results nationally and internationally. No doubt this is true. These events require as much, if not more organisation than racing days. I think a happy medium may be found in having a communal walk through led by one or a number of elite riders at the end of saturday practice to show younger and less experienced riders a few lines and give tips on how to hit sections. I know this may be difficult on longer tracks, however, even if this option is reserved for shorter tracks I believe it has much utility in imparting some racing knowledge on the upcoming generation of racers with little organisational hassel.
1) Drop 17s and Expert Qualifying.
Victoria is unique in having this arrangement and I believe there are a number of reasons why it should not continue:
> Having these riders in the finals pushes out the finish time of races. This is annoying for riders and spectators alike for obvious reasons (eg: no spectators hanging around for finals or presentation, racing in twilight, getting home late from the race event).
> Including these categories in finals dilutes the importance, prestige even, accorded to qualifiers runs. This is a serious point. People want to hang around and watch the top riders come down the hill at the end of the day. Also, and in addition, the move from 'Elite' to 'Expert' has to be incentivised. Like it or not, at state races 'Expert' is a 'fun' category - these riders have elected not to push things in the top category and therefore they should race with the rest of the field like everyone else. When such riders do wish to take their racing more seriously, the option is open to them to move up a category. Simple.
> Finally, and a point I will get back to, Downhilling needs to keep its professional image. Keeping the top riders separate at the end of the day makes the pinnacle of the sport something special, something to watch, and something for younger riders to aim for.
2) Do not have novelty prizes at racing events.
> A few people have suggested prizes for "best costume", "biggest crash" and the like. These kinds of events make downhilling into a joke sport and cheapen the whole scene. Keep it professional.
3) Communal track walk
>Some have suggested that more skills days are needed to help Victorian riders get better results nationally and internationally. No doubt this is true. These events require as much, if not more organisation than racing days. I think a happy medium may be found in having a communal walk through led by one or a number of elite riders at the end of saturday practice to show younger and less experienced riders a few lines and give tips on how to hit sections. I know this may be difficult on longer tracks, however, even if this option is reserved for shorter tracks I believe it has much utility in imparting some racing knowledge on the upcoming generation of racers with little organisational hassel.
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kill_switch
Dead-set Idiot
Has anyone though of certain a-lines being closed for certain categories. I mean people doing LG road gap in sport, seriously!!!
This would help move up some of the sand baggers, it would help reduce the injury count and make riders progress more steadly, not just balls up and injure them selfs.
Say Novice compulsory take all b-lines, sport take most of the b-lines with certain harder a-lines closed, expert and elite all lines are open if the riders wish to take them.