Manly Dam Works Feedback

[bikesarefun]

Pretty disappointing response really.

Well, I guess those who are particularly sh1tted off can have a vent for the cost of a local call.

 

[CP]

Mr Buckly's reply, like the track work, is retarded. I would wager that he's never ridden on the track, and like VT says, even riding at a walking pace is dangerous eg at the steps. We're not asking for more challenges, just some thought to spacing. Widening the spacing doesn't put joggers or walkers in danger.

Sheesh, how do these people retain their jobs? We've got Buckley's chance of them changing it though

 

[nrthrnben]

Just received my response,look familiar?
He has just sent a generic response out to everyone.
The guy seems nice enough but clearly out of touch with the main park users.

So bikers are not allowed on walking tracks but walkers are allowed on biking tracks,what a joke.
It also states we should slow down or dismount when encountering "challenging" conditions,what about "dangerous" and "stupid" conditions?

I will be resending a further email

Thank you for your email of 17 September 2009 regarding mountain biking at Manly Dam. Your comments have been noted and your observations on design and maintenance matters are appreciated.

Council has not provided a purpose-built mountain bike track at Manly Dam. A bike access route was made available on a trial basis as a management response to minimise uncontrolled bike access to the Park’s internal walking track network. This gave cyclists access around the Park away from the more sensitive walking track network. The bike trail was never built to satisfy the demands of technically proficient riders, and was certainly never meant to attract increased mountain bike activity within Manly Dam.

This trail remains a multi-use facility (walkers, joggers, cyclists etc) and needs to accommodate the least technically proficient bike riders. Park Management also actively discourages mountain bike competitions and high speed racing. This approach compliments the Park’s over arching ethic of passive recreation and bushland conservation.

The bike trail works completed to date are to standards acceptable to both the NSW Department of Lands and Council’s consultants. Council and the Manly Dam Management advises bikers to ride according to track and weather conditions. This means slowing down or at times dismounting the bike when encountering challenging conditions. The Manly Dam Biking Code of Conduct covers these and related issues.

Council is aware that this approach may not satisfy riders wanting high levels of challenge and uninterrupted speed opportunities. Your comments to certain aspects of track surface treatment etc will be considered where they may assist to improve and fine tune the existing bike trail. Thank you again for your input.

Should you have any further enquiries please contact Council’s Co-ordinator Manly Warringah War Memorial Park, Mr Chris Buckley on 9949 3235.

Yours faithfully



C M Buckley
Co-ordinator
Manly Warringah War Memorial Park

 

[Cuthbert]

That response is most dissappointing..... quite franky it shows a complete contempt for the MTB community and a total lack of understanding

 

[Spanky_Ham]

J
So bikers are not allowed on walking tracks but walkers are allowed on biking tracks,what a joke.

how have you not reviewed the following?
http://www.warringah.nsw.gov.au/community/mountainbiking.aspx

"The Mountain Bike Trail (PDF, 127KB) is shared with walkers and winds around the edge of the park." and " Don't cycle on walking tracks"

its all there.....


s

 

[BT180]

Give way to walkers and dismount when approaching groups - remember the bike track is a shared path

This is never done. I know most walkers get out of the way of the riders when approached.

 

[nrthrnben]

how have you not reviewed the following?
http://www.warringah.nsw.gov.au/community/mountainbiking.aspx

"The Mountain Bike Trail (PDF, 127KB) is shared with walkers and winds around the edge of the park." and " Don't cycle on walking tracks"

its all there.....


s

Genius

I was pointing out the hypocrisy

 

[Spanky_Ham]

hypocrisy? LOL, WOT?

 

[nrthrnben]

WOT?

The Northern Beaches Mountain Bike community in general are not happy with the councils management of manly dam in regards to mountain biking.
It is hypocritical and unfair when they say OK "bikers must stay away from walking trails to reduce user conflict and so on", while on the other hand they say, "walkers can go on mountain biking trails and bikers must dismount or give way to walkers". This is all whilst we are known overwhelmingly as the main user group of the entire park.

They say they never built the trail to give a high technical challenge, and yet some of the most recent changes make it more challenging to ride,but the problem is, its not in a good way,some of the changes border on dangerous.

At least at the end he says,

Your comments to certain aspects of track surface treatment etc will be considered where they may assist to improve and fine tune the existing bike trail. Thank you again for your input.

so its not entirely banging heads on walls

 

[igoy]

The logs in both sections at start of allambie downhill and middle are a complete joke,the stairs near the end are dangerous no matter how good a rider you are, and if you think you are that good of a rider that they wont effect you, well, they will sooner or later, even the pros come off. I would like anyone that witnesses one of those sharp pointy stairs going into someones face or back or whatever stand up and say, "its not that dangerous", your wrong...they are dangerous,and both sections of logs as well as being kinda dangerous, remove the fun and flow from two sweet sections of trail.

Send an email people.

Anyone recieved a real email response other than the automated,we will respond to you within the normal 10 days?

yeah this is true

 

[d_n2blue]

The logs in both sections at start of allambie downhill and middle are a complete joke,the stairs near the end are dangerous no matter how good a rider you are, and if you think you are that good of a rider that they wont effect you, well, they will sooner or later, even the pros come off. I would like anyone that witnesses one of those sharp pointy stairs going into someones face or back or whatever stand up and say, "its not that dangerous", your wrong...they are dangerous,and both sections of logs as well as being kinda dangerous, remove the fun and flow from two sweet sections of trail.

I agree with this as about a month ago I came off trying to go down those stairs, damaged a ligament in my left shoulder and only just now am I able to ride again. Talk about taking away the fun of the track but in my case it was taken away for a whole month.

 

[nrthrnben]

I agree with this as about a month ago I came off trying to go down those stairs, damaged a ligament in my left shoulder and only just now am I able to ride again. Talk about taking away the fun of the track but in my case it was taken away for a whole month.

Sorry to hear that mate, not good at all.

can you please post up or pm me the exact details of your incident with as much detail as possible,pics if you have them.

We need a compilation of injuries to show council the steps are dangerous, and prove the current builders have no idea.

 

[PLUCAS]

We need a compilation of injuries to show council the steps are dangerous, and prove the current builders have no idea.

What so they have reason to close the whole friggin joint.

Never ever complain about injuries, it is just what the do gooders are waiting for more ammo to shut us down.

Tell nobody nothin, Just shut up and if you are not confident about a "difficult" section get off and walk "ride within your limits"

 

[nrthrnben]

What so they have reason to close the whole friggin joint.

Never ever complain about injuries, it is just what the do gooders are waiting for more ammo to shut us down.

Tell nobody nothin, Just shut up and if you are not confident about a "difficult" section get off and walk "ride within your limits"

I'm going to ignore your last sentence....

The dam would never get closed even if and when someone died whilst on the trail. Its like saying if someone has a car crash, they are going to stop everyone driving on the roads! The RTA do their very best to minimize the risk whilst driving. Not increase the risk like the council have just done.


So what your saying the council could put a pointy stake on the side of the trail protruding from the ground(maybe holding up a tree, someone stakes themselves on it,and you would say,

tell nobody nothin

The steps are not much different to that stake.

I do not have a major problem riding that section, it is the many newbies and novices(including spouses and kids) that frequent the dam that i emphasize with, having said that, an experienced rider(please see above post by d_n2blue,pm received) has and probably will in the future come to grief on the pointy steps near the end of the dam.

Have you seen the steps in question?

If you haven't,take a look before you judge.

If you have seen them, you should try and think smarter, because we are trying to get this section changed, so that someone doesn't get seriously hurt or killed on them (which it is only a matter of time as to when it will happen, then I'm sure there would be talk about the safety of mountain biking at manly dam)

I understand that reporting to the land manager about every injury on the trails is counterproductive for obvious reasons(even though hikers regularly die on the trails, and they haven't shut down hiking trails), but this is a section they have put in without consultation which is dangerous,so its a little different mate.

have a good one.

PS details of the injury recieved by PM have been passed on to NOBMOB

 

[Alchem1st]

I'd like to see the council stop the damn Mini Bikes that insist on riding on the track

They are fricken useless, they think just cause they are motorised they are faster than you, but they can't go up anything, and they are useless downhill cause they are fat.

They are farkin noisy and small bad.

I've seen them twice latelly using the trails...

 

[PLUCAS]

I understand that reporting to the land manager about every injury on the trails is counterproductive for obvious reasons(even though hikers regularly die on the trails, and they haven't shut down hiking trails), but this is a section they have put in without consultation which is dangerous.

At least you understand something

Unfortunately you do not seem to understand that this is a shared track for walkers and riders so that trail design is compromised from the start, just as the councils response to your letters implied.

There are many sections of the dam trail that less than competent riders have to walk and this was always one of them before the stairs were put in anyway.

The walkers lobby group is very strong and have been trying to have bikes removed from the park for years now. Fortunately dam management have seen the benefits of cycling and remained strongly on our side, now you are going to give them more ammunition.

Just as Nobmob got all the tracks the NPWS turned a blind eye to, that were being ridden shut down recently by trying to lobby NPWS for legitimacy, I am sure although well intentioned, what you are trying to do is not in our best interests in the long run.

Tell the council what they are doing so far is great and encourage them by positive re-enforcement, all you are doing is alienating them with negative comments.

 

[nrthrnben]

At least you understand something

Unfortunately you do not seem to understand that this is a shared track for walkers and riders so that trail design is compromised from the start, just as the councils response to your letters implied.

There are many sections of the dam trail that less than competent riders have to walk and this was always one of them before the stairs were put in anyway.

So every time i see a walker and biker sign together and every time i see a walker on the trail at the dam, i think to my self, oh, this must be a mountain bike only trail. Nice one.

There are ways to build and maintain a multi use trail system, and making it unnecessarily dangerous for either user during maintenance is not the way forward.Every bit of maintenance should have not only sustainability in mind but also the best interests and safety of all users.

This section is unnecessarily dangerous even for competent riders.

Just as Nobmob got all the tracks the NPWS turned a blind eye to, that were being ridden shut down recently by trying to lobby NPWS for legitimacy

Man i would pay to see you say that to Rob or some of the other guys on nobmobs face whom have put so much effort into legalizing the Northern Beaches Mountain Biking scene.

You may want to rethink your stance toward Nobmob, because all the effort is working

I am sure although well intentioned, what you are trying to do is not in our best interests in the long run.

It may not be in your best interest, but it is in the best interest of the guy that PM'd me his injury's from the steps, and of any fellow riders whose husband or wife may cop a pointy edge of a step in the face and possibly die.There are no warnings, no signs, Just pointy steps waiting to catch someone as they already have.

As i said in my post above, the incident was passed onto Nobmob for them to add to the list of recommendation's to pass on to the Manly Dam Ranger,when, and if, they fell the need.

So if you have a problem with improving the track and making it safer for all, take it up on Nobmob.

 

[PLUCAS]

This is not a pissing competiton.

I think the efforts of all should be applauded. including yourself for creating the discussion and your passion is obvious.

I do not disagree the the stairs are a little dangerous but it is not the only dangerous section, and they stuffed up a bloody good line through that section to boot.

Nobmob were only trying to do the right thing, this was an example of how the best intentions can back fire and I am sure they would agree.

I do however think you missed my point with regards to the language that should be used to engage the stake holders and the strength of the walkers lobby group.

The president of the local walkers group is an ex rugby international and ran for local council he lives on the dam track. he and his group would dearly love to see us banned from the park.

I have a plan to make the stairs safer feel free to pm me for more info

 

[nrthrnben]

Sorry but i couldnt really see your point from the post quoted, sorry if my post came across a little strong, just dont want to see an avoidable serious injury occur.

What so they have reason to close the whole friggin joint.

Never ever complain about injuries, it is just what the do gooders are waiting for more ammo to shut us down.

Tell nobody nothin, Just shut up and if you are not confident about a "difficult" section get off and walk "ride within your limits"

On the other hand, This is what we need:

I have a plan to make the stairs safer feel free to pm me for more info

Thats great,your suggestions are most welcome, post them up here

 

[BT180]

The president of the local walkers group is an ex rugby international and ran for local council he lives on the dam track. he and his group would dearly love to see us banned from the park.

I wonder if he knows that George Gregan is riding on his beloved walking track...