That gay marriage thing........

[DJninja]

Just, wow. While this does not change my impression of you, it most definitely confirms it.



It would suggest it implies a rather deluded understanding of female sexuality and relationships in general Acquired through rabid consumption of internet pornography, bad US situational comedies and presidential press conferences.

What reason could I have given to of gained your approval? I was being tongue in cheek, for my given reason at least; because I don't need to convince you that my opinion is right or try to change your opinion that you believe is right. I am filled with hate and you are great.

Although there is definitely logic to my statement.

 

[pink poodle]

It would suggest it implies a rather deluded understanding of female sexuality and relationships in general Acquired through rabid consumption of internet pornography, bad US situational comedies and presidential press conferences.

You really are out of touch. Just because those films contain explicit activities between adults, doesn't mean they aren't valid documentary evidence of the way women work. The only women not throwing their bodies and panties at me are those that haven't met me yet. Clearly the problem here is the lack of machismo in the average man...unable to turn these women back.

:llama:

Cam we just vote already and move forward? Hopefully.

 

[The Duckmeister]

What reason could I have given to of gained your approval?

There isn't any reason in support of perpetuating discrmination that could gain approval. MY LIFE shouldn't be decided by a fucking national opinion poll.

 

[pink poodle]

There isn't any reason in support of perpetuating disrmination that could gain approval. MY LIFE
shouldn't be decided by a fucking national opinion poll.

It could be worse...the right to decide could've been auctioned off to a commercial TV network and turned into a reality TV program. I'm thinking bachelor meets survivor meets all of the talent/skill shows - singing, dancing, ninja strength, cooking...whatever else is popular from genre foes here. At the end the viewers (or do they use expert judges?) decide.

Hopefully the closest it comes to that will be a series or two of a same sex marriage show celebrating the end of this type of discrimination.

 

[born-again-biker]

I just feel really embarrassed (on an international level) about how we have turned this thing into such a saga.
I mean other nations (if they care) must be looking at the way we are going about this and shaking their heads, no?

I'm all for "rigorous" and extended public debate before laws/constitution are changed, but christ, what a complete dogs breakfast this has been.
The best we could come up with is a non-binding postal survey? In 2017?

I really hope the Yes vote wins so we can just make the change and move on.

 

[Knuckles]

What reason could I have given to of gained your approval? I was being tongue in cheek, for my given reason at least; because I don't need to convince you that my opinion is right or try to change your opinion that you believe is right. I am filled with hate and you are great.

None. What is lacking in your life that you feel you need my approval? Sounds like you're filled with insecurities not hate.

What makes you think that the LGBT community needs or wants your approval, or that your disapproval is the definitive position on them making decisions that impact their own lives? Or, for that matter, that my opinion is of any consequence to them?

I wasn't expecting you to justify your position, I was genuinely interested in your motivation though, as I would like to understand what could possibly convince someone that they have the right to deny others the freedom of choice they enjoy themselves. And as to date, I have not heard anything other than rhetoric, hypocrisy or outright bigotry from the no camp.

Personally, I couldn't give a rats arse if no one were allowed to marry, suffering the affliction myself, I am the first to recommend it is not a situation others should place themselves in, gay, straight or furry. I do however believe that no one should be denied the opportunity to make that mistake of their own volition, if that is what they want to do.

Although there is definitely logic to my statement.

I suspect you fail to grasp the concept of logic.

 

[DJninja]

There isn't any reason in support of perpetuating discrmination that could gain approval. MY LIFE shouldn't be decided by a fucking national opinion poll.

Which is why I gave a facetious answer. I think marriage equality seems like an inevitability anyway.

None. What is lacking in your life that you feel you need my approval? Sounds like you're filled with insecurities not hate.

What makes you think that the LGBT community needs or wants your approval, or that your disapproval is the definitive position on them making decisions that impact their own lives? Or, for that matter, that my opinion is of any consequence to them?

I wasn't expecting you to justify your position, I was genuinely interested in your motivation though, as I would like to understand what could possibly convince someone that they have the right to deny others the freedom of choice they enjoy themselves. And as to date, I have not heard anything other than rhetoric, hypocrisy or outright bigotry from the no camp.

Personally, I couldn't give a rats arse if no one were allowed to marry, suffering the affliction myself, I am the first to recommend it is not a situation others should place themselves in, gay, straight or furry. I do however believe that no one should be denied the opportunity to make that mistake of their own volition, if that is what they want to do.



I suspect you fail to grasp the concept of logic.

I should of talked about impression because I was responding to your first sentence. I don't have the definitive position, I just have one that is my own. I'm not going to bring up any meaningful reasons because I don't want to convince or be convinced.

 

[pharmaboy]

I just feel really embarrassed (on an international level) about how we have turned this thing into such a saga.
I mean other nations (if they care) must be looking at the way we are going about this and shaking their heads, no?

I'm all for "rigorous" and extended public debate before laws/constitution are changed, but christ, what a complete dogs breakfast this has been.
The best we could come up with is a non-binding postal survey? In 2017?

I really hope the Yes vote wins so we can just make the change and move on.

You think? Ireland had a national referendum, I consume a fair bit of news and I didn't hear about till after the fact. Australia on domestic issues I doubt feature much on the world stage

 

[pharmaboy]

None. What is lacking in your life that you feel you need my approval? Sounds like you're filled with insecurities not hate.

What makes you think that the LGBT community needs or wants your approval, or that your disapproval is the definitive position on them making decisions that impact their own lives? Or, for that matter, that my opinion is of any consequence to them?

I wasn't expecting you to justify your position, I was genuinely interested in your motivation though, as I would like to understand what could possibly convince someone that they have the right to deny others the freedom of choice they enjoy themselves. And as to date, I have not heard anything other than rhetoric, hypocrisy or outright bigotry from the no camp.

Personally, I couldn't give a rats arse if no one were allowed to marry, suffering the affliction myself, I am the first to recommend it is not a situation others should place themselves in, gay, straight or furry. I do however believe that no one should be denied the opportunity to make that mistake of their own volition, if that is what they want to do.



I suspect you fail to grasp the concept of logic.

Mate, what a croc, he can see through you, there is no way you are genuinely interested in any opinion that differs from yours, you are quick to respond ad hominem, you are certain you are right therefore anyone else is wrong (note I used the personal).

i mean your next sentence is "the right to deny" - schoolboy strawman stuff

 

[Knuckles]

Mate, what a croc, he can see through you, there is no way you are genuinely interested in any opinion that differs from yours, you are quick to respond ad hominem, you are certain you are right therefore anyone else is wrong (note I used the personal).

i mean your next sentence is "the right to deny" - schoolboy strawman stuff

Oh, I am most definitely right. Marriage is a sham, and anyone who defends it is an idiot, but I am happy for everyone to have the right to be an idiot, or no one. Not, you can be an idiot, and you can be an idiot but you most definitely can't be an idiot, but you can be an idiot, and the lez over there, definitely not, she might be needed to fulfill some idiot's school boy fantasy.

I don't care about the contrary opinion or to have it justified, but I am curious as to what motivates it, other than the religious freedom evasion. Even if it were the issue, it's still bullshit, why should one groups freedom cancel out anothers'. In other words, why should you rights to bother God, give you the right deny others to make the worst decision they could possibly make in their life.

Can't see where I've personally attacked anyone, other than Abbott, who let's face it, needs a good slapping for instigating this joke of a situation and Billy Hughes for lumbering us with Joice.

Everyone's opinion in this irrelevant, aye or nay. The only opinions that really matter are the politicians who are required to vote on the change, and only because of a change that didn't need a plebiscite, or a lengthy debate or even more than a day's notice, and they are not being given the chance to exercise it through a vote, and the plebiscite is irrelevant to the vote, as the phrasing will likely be vague enough to allow the Uber no camp to acknowledge that marriage equality is supported (if that is the result) but to point out that it didn't actually indicate a conscience vote was supported.

I have no issues with those who are against same sex marriage, I do have issue with the hypocritical and selfish reasons for opposing it, that have been put forward to date. My real problem is with the breakdown in government process, lack of leadership and general spinelessness that has led us to this point.

 

[johnny]

I don't have the definitive position, I just have one that is my own. I'm not going to bring up any meaningful reasons because I don't want to convince or be convinced.

But you did feel the need to tell us that you would vote no (which I don't fully believe anyway) and I'm interested as to why you wanted to tell us that but not discuss it with us.

i mean your next sentence is "the right to deny" - schoolboy strawman stuff

Hang on a minute, that is not straw man at all, that is 100% precisely what is happening. There is a section of society that wants to stop something from happening - that doesn't impact them one bit. They are essentially arguing for the denial of something to another person, something they get to enjoy themselves.

Tell me how that is an incorrect reading of the situation.

 

[Shinigami]

I swear this just ate my text and didn't post

edit

Oh, I am most definitely right. Marriage is a sham, and anyone who defends it is an idiot, but I am happy for everyone to have the right to be an idiot, or no one. Not, you can be an idiot, and you can be an idiot but you most definitely can't be an idiot, but you can be an idiot, and the lez over there, definitely not, she might be needed to fulfill some idiot's school boy fantasy.

I'm glad my girlfriend also subscribe to this view otherwise i'd be on the chopping block.

I also dont see how idiot school children can't have fantasies about married gays/lesbians given they would already be in a committed relationship to get married.

also (iirc) all marriage celebrants have the right to refuse for any reason i dont see why we need any further religious protections around this. though if they wanted to introduce them as part of a propper bill or rights i would be up for that

 

[pink poodle]

I swear this just ate my text and didn't post

And it was some of you're finest work too? I know those feels.

 

[Shinigami]

And it was some of you're finest work too? I know those feels.

more finest ranting than anything. i have rewritten the bulk of it above. just doesnt like me posting from my phone especially when i edit quotes, i just get a fiale to large to upload errror.

 

[DJninja]

But you did feel the need to tell us that you would vote no (which I don't fully believe anyway) and I'm interested as to why you wanted to tell us that but not discuss it with us.



Hang on a minute, that is not straw man at all, that is 100% precisely what is happening. There is a section of society that wants to stop something from happening - that doesn't impact them one bit. They are essentially arguing for the denial of something to another person, something they get to enjoy themselves.

Tell me how that is an incorrect reading of the situation.

I had read 5 or so pages of this thread and it seemed that everyone was unanimously affirmative and I guess I wanted to test that. just going from the initial reaction I just don't want to press further. Being against marriage equality is being against the core of many here's being. And frankly I wouldn't "win" any debate on the issue.

 

[Knuckles]

I swear this just ate my text and didn't post

edit



I'm glad my girlfriend also subscribe to this view otherwise i'd be on the chopping block.

Some jerks get all the luck.

I also dont see how idiot school children can't have fantasies about married gays/lesbians given they would already be in a committed relationship to get married.

Really? I thought everyone knew it was a proven, peer reviewed, scientific fact that every lesbian is just a cock hound who hasn't met the right penis yet.

also (iirc) all marriage celebrants have the right to refuse for any reason i dont see why we need any further religious protections around this. though if they wanted to introduce them as part of a propper bill or rights i would be up for that

They also have the right of denyal of service to those not indoctrinated into their dogma, those who are indoctrinated into a competing dogma, anyone who has broken a rule of their dogma. They can also refuse to teach accepted curriculum if it is contrary to their dogma, suppress admissions of sexual and physical abuse and murder.

For the record, I am baptised catholic, was raised catholic. I am not athiest, but have a healthy scepticism towards "facts" that were formulated thousands of years ago, that replace scientific reason with "because magic" and while not anti religion, I am anti institutionalised religion. Having been in the church for a bit I still cannot reconcile the basic tenets of Christianity with the refusal to accept same sex marriage. Sure the old testiment God was against Sodomy, but that mother fucker was smiting dudes left, right and centre. Hell, s/he made middle management murder their own kids for a promotion and wiped out a civilisation because he couldn't understand their language.

 

[johnny]

I had read 5 or so pages of this thread and it seemed that everyone was unanimously affirmative and I guess I wanted to test that. just going from the initial reaction I just don't want to press further. Being against marriage equality is being against the core of many here's being. And frankly I wouldn't "win" any debate on the issue.

It's not about 'winning' anything though. A discussion is not a competition and I am here to ensure that discussion remains civil and on topic. If people take things too far I remove them from the discussion.

You should feel free to be able to speak your mind.

 

[johnny]

Sure the old testiment God was against Sodomy,

Where do you get that from? According to what I posted before, that statement isn't actually correct.

I don't know myself so I'm interested to know if that piece that I posted is right/wrong.

 

[born-again-biker]

You think? Ireland had a national referendum, I consume a fair bit of news and I didn't hear about till after the fact. Australia on domestic issues I doubt feature much on the world stage

Yeah, I suspect this issue is probably only a tiny blip on the bottom of the news tape in other countries.
I was always under the impression that Ireland's process/debate/referendum was conducted well? (I don't know why I thought that, probably just passive ignorance?!)
....but really, how would I know how smooth it went in Ireland unless I was there at the time living thru it (which I wasn't).

But I still think that if intelligent people from other countries could be bothered to examine our marriage equality debate they would shake their heads and think "...really?...are you guys that 'backwards'..?
(I'd like to think so).

I just think it's a real shame that we are putting the LGBTI community through all this crap. It's undignified. I think we should have quietly passed this legislation a long time ago without all the hoo-haa
and stalling & manoeuvring & every bastard having their opinion on something that doesn't affect them.

EDIT: I realise that by participating in this thread I am one of those "bastards" who is offering opinions/thoughts about something that isn't really my business....but hey, that's web forums!

 

[pharmaboy]

But you did feel the need to tell us that you would vote no (which I don't fully believe anyway) and I'm interested as to why you wanted to tell us that but not discuss it with us.



Hang on a minute, that is not straw man at all, that is 100% precisely what is happening. There is a section of society that wants to stop something from happening - that doesn't impact them one bit. They are essentially arguing for the denial of something to another person, something they get to enjoy themselves.

Tell me how that is an incorrect reading of the situation.

Not at all. No one is asking for the right to deny, they are supporting no action. No action is not a right nor is it a right to deny, it is simply null. You are adding something on to it that fits with how YOU see things not how they see things.

There are lots of people who don't think there is a rights problem in the first place because de facto relationships are treated equally.

Straw man is about re-defining the argument to one that is un acceptable to the other side. The fact is the question is do you support a change in the law to allow same sex couple to marry?

that you guys seem to think you have facts and not strongly held opinions surprises me frankly.

Attitudes like this often cause backfire, not an inconsiderable risk in this debate I suspect