Why is pill testing even a debate?

[Binaural]

The younger generation are exposed to far more now than ever before, I think correct information is a far better policy than a blanket ‘drugs are bad’ approach.

Remember when you were taught that all sex led to babies, how different is that reality now!

Correct information isn't a substitute for proper drug manufacturing controls though, and while these drugs are illegal that's never going to happen. The problem is while sex ed is surprisingly effective if done properly (i.e. in no way how it's done in the USA), teaching kids about drug safety is mostly done by other kids and is a total crapshoot. You can't really expect the government to sign off on a "taking illegal drugs safely" program, after all.

i don't think it will, in the long run.
Portugal decriminalised all drugs and has seen a drop in usage, i believe there was an initial increase because people were curious, i think everything should be legalised. a clamp down on weed led to the meth explosion in australia. if weed had been legal back then there would be a very different set of circumstances at play now.
proper recreational drugs are not overly harmful. that is why testing should occur, it is also why legalisation should occur. alcohol is far more damaging than decent chemicals.

Your argument here is essentially that people will not take riskier drugs if lower-risk drugs are available, and I think there's some merit to that. I think slow, cautious movements in the direction of deregulation is probably the way to go.

 

[Calvin27]

Legalize all the stuff. Drops the price, creates the market and the quality control.

Mountain biking has hurt me far more than drugs ever did...

 

[indica]

Your argument here is essentially that people will not take riskier drugs if lower-risk drugs are available, and I think there's some merit to that. I think slow, cautious movements in the direction of deregulation is probably the way to go.

kinda, the argument is more along the lines of the riskier drugs are created because the others are so fucking hard to make because of the law enforcement, MDMA is okay as is clean heroin and good weed. Meth fucks people up big time, but is easy and cheap to make and flooded the market when the coppers cracked down on the wogs growing weed.

 

[Scotty T]

@Binaural if it was safer what would be the impact of more people giving it a go? I reckon a bunch of people would figure out if it was for them or not. If it happened.

Your own argument that it's next level, whether that perception is right or wrong, would stop a bunch of people going there.

Harm minimization schemes have generally not resulted in increased use, they usually cater to existing vulnerable users. This includes schemes around alcohol with designated drivers right through to pill testing.

 

[Plankosaurus]

I'm with indica. You can't make out that all drugs are bad while alcohol and tobacco (and pharmaceuticals) are somehow all peachy.

I honestly don't care how it's done, but I just want to see the hypocrisy fucked off for good. Either ban anything that alters chemicals to make a person feel a certain way, or reclassify it all and open up the safer ones the same way alcohol and tobacco is currently open.



On topic, pill testing not only results in dangerous pills being chucked out, it also gives people a reminder of what they're cooking their brains with. You have a few outings where pills test with some serious baddies in them and you might start thinking twice about handing over your hard earned for a gamble. Supply and demand will eventually lead to safer pills and less people taking them.

It's even a win for the crowd that believe all the spin in the war drugs. Less dodgy people making dodgy drugs and less people inclined to take them. You can't stamp it out, we've successfully proved this for over half a century, maybe it's time to start look at education and harm reduction?

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[teK--]

hey dozer that is okay, even if you do aim it at me, i'm a big boy.
proper drugs like weed and mdma are relatively harmless. you say beers? when i was younger and going to big dance parties the drugs were good and clean. no fucker was dying. they were relatively obscure and the good stuff not that hard to make. the issue now is all the shit put in them. no fights ever. no one punch kills, no king hits, none of that shit.


no better than anything else, just because it is legal does not mean it is okay

Word.. back in the day no one OD'd because the drugs were clean and consistent. Never saw a fight at any party. Just enjoy the tunes, rock until dawn and beyond. Compare that to the pub scene where there is regular agro. Clubbing scene here people mostly drank were better but you still get fights.

 

[k3n!f]

I've seen a couple of deaths at work from MDMA, all in people who had taken it before without issues.

A good article if anyone would like some science n shit:

https://academic.oup.com/bja/article/96/6/678/326917

I think some of the more broad implications for pill testing need to be sorted out before it gets considered. The worst outcome would be to introduce it based on political pressure from overly dramatic news articles.

Other key issues:
- Absolving responsibility of the individual
- Ability of tests to measure dosage, highly variable
- Ability to detect contaminants the pills may be cut with
- Attribution of blame if a tablet tests normal and someone dies from an idiosyncratic (random) reaction
- Condoning illegal consumption
- Responsibility to report if someone turns up with a thousand pills for testing
- Cost comparison vs lives saved, there is a distributive justice argument which needs to be satisfied

All of this needs to be evaluated without personal bias, and in light of experiences from other countries which have done this.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Word.. back in the day no one OD'd because the drugs were clean and consistent. Never saw a fight at any party. Just enjoy the tunes, rock until dawn and beyond. Compare that to the pub scene where there is regular agro. Clubbing scene here people mostly drank were better but you still get fights.

Yeah. Nah. Of course your milage may vary.

 

[SF Trailboy]

All drugs can’t be legalised as criminal organisations would have to turn to other things for money.

This would probably include extortion, kidnapping and other crimes which are more personal and impact a larger portion of the population.

Legalisation of Marijuana and some sort of MDMA would be at least a compromise.

 

[Kerplunk]

I would suggest the opposite is true - if you feel like your risk is reduced because the pill has been tested by a trusted authority, you may well encourage people to take chances. That's why a lot of people stop at smoking pot, for example, rather than trying the full gamut of stuff on offer.

From first hand experience I can tell once a pill/s starting testing dodgy or non legit your attitude changes real fast, especially if you have taken a shit pill before. You no longer have that ignorant is bliss feeling that nothing can go wrong.

 

[scblack]

. Meth fucks people up big time, but is easy and cheap to make and flooded the market when the coppers cracked down on the wogs growing weed.

Do you really believe that??? Honestly?

 

[Plankosaurus]

All drugs can’t be legalised as criminal organisations would have to turn to other things for money.

This would probably include extortion, kidnapping and other crimes which are more personal and impact a larger portion of the population.

Legalisation of Marijuana and some sort of MDMA would be at least a compromise.

I kinda see the point, but that's a piss poor reason to keep them illegal. By that logic maybe we could make some more stuff illegal to give them something less harmful to do than sell meth?


I want to clarify my stance a bit though, I am talking about reclassifying, educating, and decriminalising. Not a free for all, but a rethink of the current system that says anyone can get blackout drunk but only degenerates toke on the occasional spliff.

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[Kerplunk]

I honestly don't care how it's done, but I just want to see the hypocrisy fucked off for good. Either ban anything that alters chemicals to make a person feel a certain way, or reclassify it all and open up the safer ones the same way alcohol and tobacco is currently

Like antidepressants, imo it’s just a mild version of what and e does.. Anyone here taken both? I had a short bad spell where the doc prescribed a “selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor” which basically felt like a weak e the first few weeks on it.. Got off them a quick as possible, and it was horrible like coming off an E.. I only ever experimented with drugs btw, grew to hate party drugs pretty fast..
Anti d’s most certainly work and save a shit load of lives so I am not discounting there merit one bit. I am just sceptical of how they really work, which most research does not know, other than they increase serotonin in the brain. Sounds just like mdma to me, just not as intense..

 

[indica]

Do you really believe that??? Honestly?

yes

 

[fatboyonabike]

the whole gateway thing is total bollox
if you take one pill you wont get hooked, unless you have an addictive tendency...but this can be applied also to nicotine and alcohol (but it doesn't!)
Pill testing has been around for ages, and I always tested if I sourced from another supplier..usually my hookup was also using the same stuff as he was selling, as dealers usually get high on their own supply, so you know if he winds up in hospital ,you wont! and things go quiet for a few weeks.
Im sure its not the end of the line suppliers intentions to put people in hospital or worse, but a problem more closely related to cheap cut down rubbish coming in from asia , and the dealers trying to get rich quick..back in the day, alot of pills came in from europe and were very good, not much dodgy asian shit that has been cut a dozen times, everyone felt the love.
Now the drugs are rubbish, the clubs are rubbish and the music makes me want to gouge out my ears

for those in the know, here's a little clip from the training manual!
Reach for the lasers...SAFE AS FUCK!

 

[indica]

Griffith mafia were growing massive outdoor crops, these were smashed, the mafia then went hydro and then hooked up with bikies and meth was found to be easier and cheaper to produce with bigger returns.

 

[indica]

Reach for the lasers...SAFE AS FUCK!

2009? woaaaaaahhhhhh

I partially recall seeing the Shaman live in Adelaide.... massive

 

[SF Trailboy]

And also

Griffith mafia were growing massive outdoor crops, these were smashed, the mafia then went hydro and then hooked up with bikies and meth was found to be easier and cheaper to produce with bigger returns.

easier to transport and larger yields from less work

 

[indica]

This would probably include extortion, kidnapping

and these crimes don't exist anyway? White collar crime is massive

 

[NUTTTR]

I've seen a couple of deaths at work from MDMA, all in people who had taken it before without issues.

A good article if anyone would like some science n shit:

https://academic.oup.com/bja/article/96/6/678/326917

I think some of the more broad implications for pill testing need to be sorted out before it gets considered. The worst outcome would be to introduce it based on political pressure from overly dramatic news articles.

Other key issues:
- Absolving responsibility of the individual
- Ability of tests to measure dosage, highly variable
- Ability to detect contaminants the pills may be cut with
- Attribution of blame if a tablet tests normal and someone dies from an idiosyncratic (random) reaction
- Condoning illegal consumption
- Responsibility to report if someone turns up with a thousand pills for testing
- Cost comparison vs lives saved, there is a distributive justice argument which needs to be satisfied

All of this needs to be evaluated without personal bias, and in light of experiences from other countries which have done this.

I've seen a couple of deaths at work from MDMA, all in people who had taken it before without issues.

A good article if anyone would like some science n shit:

https://academic.oup.com/bja/article/96/6/678/326917

I think some of the more broad implications for pill testing need to be sorted out before it gets considered. The worst outcome would be to introduce it based on political pressure from overly dramatic news articles.

Other key issues:
- Absolving responsibility of the individual
- Ability of tests to measure dosage, highly variable
- Ability to detect contaminants the pills may be cut with
- Attribution of blame if a tablet tests normal and someone dies from an idiosyncratic (random) reaction
- Condoning illegal consumption
- Responsibility to report if someone turns up with a thousand pills for testing
- Cost comparison vs lives saved, there is a distributive justice argument which needs to be satisfied

All of this needs to be evaluated without personal bias, and in light of experiences from other countries which have done this.

Basically all this. Pill testing will tell you something is "safe" or "is what you expect"... If you then die because you had a bad reaction, or get brain damage due to, whatever reason or additive that wasn't detected, then you are going to go legal, if you don't, the people left will.

I don't believe pill testing will help anything, and as mentioned already may make people more brave by taking an extra dose, or relying on drugs being "safe" now because it is "tested".

Going part way with the government assisting what "fillers" people use in drugs, or mandating it, etc may help, the active ingredient isn't always the cause of death and the random bullshit they add to the drugs are often what gets you...