Why is pill testing even a debate?

[Dales Cannon]

Most people I know who went from marijuana to other things did so because of workplace drug testing. One or two because they wanted more or something different. Right or wrong THC hangs around for typically weeks in the system and with zero tolerance is an excuse to punt someone. Meth etc can be flushed out overnight. On some sites guys were taking meth in the carpark at site during lunch after getting through a morning random drug test call up. Alledgedly. Then the random tests were changed to any time during the day.

Some remote places that provide accomodation do drug testing after hours too.

All this drives the use of different things that dont register as drugs. We had guys bring stuff in from Asia that wasnt yet classified and didnt cause the bells to ring during a test. Who knows what they were really taking.

Sad state and I wish I knew the answer. I know of several guys who got fucked up and dead on drugs, overdose and bad shit. That is why my attitude is as it is.

I raised my concern with clients and others when I was a CEO at an appropriate get together. Too hard. Lots of eyes to the ground others had the mistaken belief that random drug testing was pioneering reduced drug use. No it wasnt, all it did was make the grass peddlers go to a new market and those who used go to alternatives.

As I said before, my opinion, my experience. Yours will likely vary.

If I could I would get rid of the shit because it fucks up so many lives. You cant, so at least try and keep people alive and work on getting them off it. My heartfelt sympathy goes to those in emergency services who have to put up and deal with people fucked up on drugs. I couldnt do it. Valid points too about legal drugs and alcohol. People get fucked up on those everyday too. And cause issues for essential services.

I still have no answer. Drug users are not always low lives or deserve what they get, some are good people who you work with and you dont know.

 

[fatboyonabike]

2009? woaaaaaahhhhhh

I partially recall seeing the Shaman live in Adelaide.... massive

I think that was when the clip was put together, not when the movie came out
came out late 90's if my fucked up memory serves me correctly

 

[indica]

I don't believe pill testing will help anything,

so the 10 or so people that binned their drugs (after they were tested)


at Canberra groovn' BECAUSE THEY WERE REALLY FUCKING DANGEROUS makes no difference?

I'd really like my kids to have that choice.

 

[Calvin27]

I still have no answer. Drug users are not always low lives or deserve what they get, some are good people who you work with and you dont know.

Drug control is literally punishing the masses because a few can't be responsible with it. It would be like alcohol prohibition.

 

[Miguel75]

I work in emergency services; I'd be happy if alcohol wasn't around. Lots of lives would be very different.

 

[fatboyonabike]

if this became the norm, and people were given a choice to find another dealer who was selling clean pills, surely this will go to cleaning up the industry.
name and shame the people pushing the crap on the streets, because that is where the problem is.
and try and tell me that its not an industry, it is..and a very well established one, but without any regulations and standards, it will always be run by cowboys and dodgy fuckers!.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Drug control is literally punishing the masses because a few can't be responsible with it. It would be like alcohol prohibition.

A drug free for all wont work either though. As bad as the legal things are some of the illegal things are many levels worse.

I could never condone open slather on drugs. I saw with my own eyes a rigger on something walking (against all the rules) purlins (76mm wide) about 80m above the ground. When anyone went near him he swayed away. For about an hour work stopped until the guy came down physically and emotionally.

Al least if he was pissed he would have fallen over on the ground (bad attempt at humour).

 

[Plankosaurus]

I work in emergency services; I'd be happy if alcohol wasn't around. Lots of lives would be very different.

Agreed. It's still my poison of choice, but I'm well aware of the damage it does and I wouldn't be upset if they dropped it from the shelves. The amount of businesses that legally cash in on destroying people's lives is disgusting.

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[foxpuppet]

Why don’t they just make the music better?


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[NUTTTR]

so the 10 or so people that binned their drugs (after they were tested)


at Canberra groovn' BECAUSE THEY WERE REALLY FUCKING DANGEROUS makes no difference?

I'd really like my kids to have that choice.

I would love my kids to have the same choice.

I would bet stacks of pills that are dangerous would slip past... People will use the excuse "they are tested so they are safe!" When they can be anything but.

 

[teK--]

From first hand experience I can tell once a pill/s starting testing dodgy or non legit your attitude changes real fast, especially if you have taken a shit pill before. You no longer have that ignorant is bliss feeling that nothing can go wrong.

So true... Back then a dud pill might be if it had a low dose of MDMA they put some variant in like MDEA. A bad one might just be a speed bomb or it has no active ingredient at all. Now there is shit that can just kill without much warning. The manufacturers have shot themselves in the foot with their greed.

 

[wkkie]

Pill testing should be available. Drugs will be taken regardless of the laws so at least make the tools available to stop people dying from dodgy shit.

And what happens when the pills are tested and found to be no good? How long to reckon people will continue to get them tested before they just say fuck it and od anyway...

 

[Dales Cannon]

And what happens when the pills are tested and found to be no good? How long to reckon people will continue to get them tested before they just say fuck it and od anyway...

I dont know. I have a few alcohols and havent dabbled with illegal drugs. My brain doesnt work like an addicts. But if testing saves one life or better yet gets someone off bad drugs isnt that ok?

 

[teK--]

And what happens when the pills are tested and found to be no good? How long to reckon people will continue to get them tested before they just say fuck it and od anyway...

People will learn its better to source your gear from a trusted supplier rather than buy off some random at a party. The latter is almost always where dud pills get dumped as no one cares about repeat business.

 

[Plankosaurus]

And what happens when the pills are tested and found to be no good? How long to reckon people will continue to get them tested before they just say fuck it and od anyway...

I reckon we're heading into Darwin award territory then. If you educate them and give them a way to see the shit they're eating, and they decide that it's worth killing themselves for, I figure they were going to kill themselves anyway. At least pill testing gives them a pause an a chance to rethink it. I mean if they're hitting up the test facility they're already giving it some thought right?

It'd be nice to snap your fingers Thanos style and just have all the bad shit pixel itself away, but it's not going to happen. Zero tolerance and treating people just looking to have some fun as if they're hardened criminals has been proven not to work. I'm not a fan of the idea of my kids getting onto some of these things, but like a few others I'd feel a lot better knowing they can at least make sure they're not eating rat poison.

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[droenn]

Even “trusted” suppliers get dodgy batches. And then there are copycats that are stamped the same but have completely different actives. Online resources like forums (which is what has existed until now) for harm reduction can’t handle every region and pill type that is in circulation. Pill testing gives you some confidence at least that you are taking mdma instead of ketamine or paint stripper.

Btw, did anyone else get made to read Anna’s Story in the 90s?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Wood_(born_1980)
Huge scare campaign which did little.

 

[scblack]

People will learn its better to source your gear from a trusted supplier rather than buy off some random at a party. The latter is almost always where dud pills get dumped as no one cares about repeat business.

"Trusted" supplier. Good joke. I got a laugh out of it.

 

[clockworked]

1. Moonshine and methanol tainted alcohols used to blind people and destroy their livers fairly rapidly. It's pretty easy to mess up the production of alcohol in an uneducated attempt and produce a poisonous product.

Unregulated, bootleg alcohol had the propensity to ruin many lives, which is a risk that has been reduced through legalisation. As has been stated before: some pure extractions of popular drugs have immensely wide therapeutic windows, and would be comparatively harmless if given a legalised market to produce for.

2. There's a strong body of evidence that suggests that drug use increases with social stigma. Working to more comfortably integrate fringe members of society would appear to reduce their interest in drug use. They have even proved that in animal trials!

Maybe we should decriminalize a few safer options and pump the money into mental health treatment

 

[Nambra]

Interesting topic, and good to see mature discussion from the diverse RB crowd. I think I picked up on Dales' comment that not all drug takers are low lives, which I can relate to. I spent my late teens and 20's around Byron and surrounds and weed was as abundant as lawn clippings amongst the people I hung out with, most of whom outgrew it all when family/work became a priority. Sure there was acid and coke and speed and mushies and but only a small number of friends used them sporadically - like new year's eve or similar. As others have said, nobody was really concerned about the quality of the chemicals back then as it was all pretty legit. Pot was the staple though as it suited the relaxed north coast lifestyle. No surf? Hit the cones.

I do recall when Nimbin changed from the hippy/weed culture to a more sinister town. It would have been late 80's when the NSW state police swooped in and rounded up all the marijuana crops in and around Nimbin - we had police helicopters flying over our house with huge bales of plants hanging beneath them taking it away to get destroyed. The sudden scarcity of pot in Nimbin essentially kicked off the smack scene, with an increase in petty crime and more down-and-outers living on the streets. You could pull up on street there and before you'd even turned off your engine, there was someone tapping on your window asking if you wanted some 'smoko' - people selling pot to support their heroin addiction.

Still - that's all pretty innocuous compared to the shit kids have access to these days, as well as their propensity to take it. I'm not sure on pill testing though - the harm minimisation aspect is a valid argument and I'm guessing that there is empirical data to suggest that it does just that. And I understand that the people testing the pills don't just say "yep it's got nothing bad in it, go get wasted", it is a further opportunity to educate the individual into not taking it at all - although how often does that work I wonder - someone tossing out a 'safe' pill? That said, there also seems to be an aspect to it that encourages someone to perhaps try something when they might not have otherwise, because they know that they can get it tested before they take it, reducing the risk of them taking something harmful.

You also have to put the deaths from 'illicit drug overdose' into perspective with kids dying in road accidents, youth suicide and so on. Plenty of other problems to deal with besides groovers taking disco biscuits at festivals.

 

[frenchman]

Why don’t they just make the music better?


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Did it happen when the music on triple J got worse and you had to switch to ABC local?