Australia Day, is January 26th the right day?

Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
you all do realise that theirs a damn good chance that, without the colonisation of Australia, that none of use would be here right now to discuss this point?
or possible some other country could have "invaded" Australia and literally wiped out the aborigines ?? and that no one would be able to learn thier history ? which we can do?
Im not going to deny what happened was horrible etc , but as a country i believe we are doing more and getting better , moving the date will not change the facts.

to me and many others aus day 26th jan, is about celebrating where we are today, from where we have come from , with ALL races that reside here.
holding onto past atrocities ( from 200yrs ago or more ) is not going to help anyone. nor will a date change , fix anything
The mistreatment of our indigenous people didn't finish some 200 years ago. Plenty alive today have copped the arse end of some pretty shit official policy, and that's just official policy.

That argument is bullshit. Doesn't matter what country took over, they'd have every right to feel hard done by. Maybe the Spanish would have treated them shittier, maybe the Dutch better, it doesn't matter because the poms did what they did.

I'm a 2nd generation Aussie, no one in my family had anything to do with any of this. I have no guilt and I don't feel the need to make up for anything. Descendants of the first fleet shouldn't feel any different either, unless they're proper cunts. Changing the date has nothing to do with guilt or apologies, it's simply about not celebrating a date that is widely regarded as the start of colonisation in the country.

The same argument get swung around all over the place. If you're celebrating our ace country you can do it on any day and it'll still mean the same thing, burn some lamb and smash some beer and drape a flag around your shoulders and be merry. If you're celebrating the first fleet getting here and can't bring yourself to look at it from the flip side of that coin, then you're a shit human and you deserve to have your day taken from you. Hard to see a reason to keep doing the 26th more compelling than "fuck you, I don't wanna change"

Sent from my H8324 using Tapatalk
 

Boom King

downloaded a pic of moorey's bruised arse
you all do realise that theirs a damn good chance that, without the colonisation of Australia, that none of use would be here right now to discuss this point?
or possible some other country could have "invaded" Australia and literally wiped out the aborigines ?? and that no one would be able to learn thier history ? which we can do?
Im not going to deny what happened was horrible etc , but as a country i believe we are doing more and getting better , moving the date will not change the facts.

to me and many others aus day 26th jan, is about celebrating where we are today, from where we have come from , with ALL races that reside here.
holding onto past atrocities ( from 200yrs ago or more ) is not going to help anyone. nor will a date change , fix anything
Except it will. We can't celebrate together on the 26th when the people that are descended from those that were here first, don't recognise it as an anniversary to celebrate.

It's not rocket surgery, changing the day will be the impetuous for much healing and growth. It shows that the majority recognise and appreciate the views of a long suffering minority.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Lol @discofrank with all the textbook whataboutisms. We can change the date. It will make a difference. It will fix the problem this thread was started to discuss.

Had someone else got here first we'd be Dutch or Spanish speaking I'd say, with much the same issues, but that's a completely fucking irrelevant whataboutism.
 

Mattyp

Cows go boing
or possible some other country could have "invaded" Australia and literally wiped out the aborigines ?? and that no one would be able to learn thier history ? which we can do?
wow really? You're basically saying that Aboriginal People should consider themselves lucky that the Brits failed at wiping them all out... because there is no way of sugar coating marching entire communities off cliffs.. Or the fact that they systematically raped aboriginal women to breed the black out over the course of a few generations. This stuff didnt just happen over 200 years ago. In 1984 some rich mining fuckwit (Lang Hancock) was still talking about sterilizing entire groups and letting them die out. But hey, just get over it, Kev said Sorry.
 

nathanm

Eats Squid
Let me help you with this one, it's really simple.

BECAUSE THEY KEEP FUCKING TELLING US WHAT ITS LIKE.
I watched a movie once where someone cut off their own arm. Doesnt mean i know how it actually feels to cut off my own arm.

Empathy vs sympathy vs reality
 

nathanm

Eats Squid
....... vs irrelevance.

I saw it too. He never told anyone what it was like, he just did it
The point squidyface made was we know how indigenous people feel because "THEY FUCKING TELL US". Thus my analogy. We can empathise with a person's situation through their stories but not sympathise as we havent lived their reality.

I speak with people, in multiple facets, from remote communities 5 days a week and my colleagues have lived aalongside them in the worst of situations. I've heard the stories numerous times but wouldn't dare assume to talk on their behalf nor deliver slactivism because it's this week's hot topic.

Australia day doesn't mean shit to me. I get to live the dream every day as a white Australian in my big house, nice car and stable employment. Polar opposite to our most vulnerable Australians so if they want to change the day or remove it all together that's perfectly fine with me. Like most Aussie holidays we just use it to get a day off work and get on the cans so does it really matter that much. The only real good thing that comes from it is the citizenship ceremony and we can do that any day.
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Compounded over generations of reinvestment and inflation, there’s a huge amount of wealth in Australia with origins in Aboriginal labour that hasn’t flowed back.
There is massive corruption at the highest levels of Aboriginal leadership, the money given to the indigenous is apparently equivalent of 70k a year per person. This does not get anywhere near those who need it.
My comment comes from a conversation with a bloke who ACTUALLY works with the indigenous in the APY lands.
He is ready to give up, he thought he could make a difference but the greed of those who should and and are trusted be looking after the community is unbelievable.

He calls them the 'untouchables' with direct line to ScoMo.
 

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
Concentrate on topic. The point of this thread was to see other's opinions on Australia day, it has morphed but that is still appropriate discussion. Even views contrary to the majority are welcome but same rules justify your selection not just say straya or I am not a rascist but...

Personal attacks, veiled or otherwise are not useful in any way, shape or form. That goes for about 6 posters. Posts deleted, some edited. Don't push your luck.
 

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
I have worked on a couple of projects that had cultural significance. Both times it was a half arsed attempt to work within the legislation and little to do with the cultural heritage.

The first project did as part of working through the cultural issues set up a training facility for aboriginal youths who were otherwise overlooked for any traineeships or apprenticeships (coal mining town). I wont go into that because I do not have any real knowledge of the process or prerequisites but it looked to me like there was the old 'they just go on walkabout and leave you stranded'. We took on two as trainee welders and one as a trainee fitter. Not apprentices because the job duration was too short and there was no guarantee the indentures could be transferred. We had already employed a few local aboriginal tradies. We had no choice in who we got so we sat down with the tradies and the lads and worked out whether it was better to have these tradies mentor the young guys. Two did and one didn't. You know what happened? They all came to work as planned, 6 days a week for 56 hours. Two were more engaged than the third but all worked every bit as hard as the other youths who were getting experience through a different scheme. Where did they go? Two tradies came back to Qld with us and one of the lads, the others did not want to move.

Second project. Cultural significance as a staging area for several groups though only two were acknowledged as having direct use of the lands. There were employment opportunities and training and a few took up the option. Some of the civil contractors offers were for people to walk around watching the machines operate and see if they could find any artefacts. Big turnover there. Our 'foreign' tradie was on that job too. He helped out because as an elder from a different area with no affiliation he was seen as a logical voice. The in fighting between the groups who were peripatetic was bizarre and it all came down to funding. Get involved in the project and then the funding is also spread your way. I was disappointed because there were some real opportunities for upskilling that took third or fourth place. We did end up with a few operators and a few with rigging and dogging tickets but sadly these sort of projects just aren't long enough. The local TAFE director (?) was great and we had some fantastic training delivered to local people. It could have gone further though if the project leads were not just concerned that their reports showed them doing the right thing as per legislation rather than really making a difference.
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
There is massive corruption at the highest levels of Aboriginal leadership
Not saying there isn’t corruption - this is the point I was making previously about the “perfect Aboriginal” thing. There are innumerable instances of non-Aboriginal controlled community organisations, charities, NGOs, private companies and politicians embezzling funds, insider trading, engaging in fee-for-favour schemes, avoiding tax and worse, and yet we don’t point at those examples and tar everyone else with the same brush.

We hold Aboriginal communities, groups, and individuals to a higher standard than we do ourselves because it makes our own hypocrisy and the inequity easier to overlook.
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
the money given to the indigenous is apparently equivalent of 70k a year per person.
Also sorry, didn’t address this.

We live in a country where the safety net is needs-based and means tested. Aboriginal Australians are on average poorer and less healthy, more likely to suffer from homelessness and mental health issues, more likely to be incarcerated, and less likely to be educated than average, so of course more money flows per capita to them and their communities.
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Agreed - I guess im just old school in that, If I want to get ahead, Ill do it through hard work and self determination...
Anyway, im done on this topic - ive been called here racist, dinosaur, having white privelege, etc anything else I have missed? lol
Work sets you free?
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
Agreed - I guess im just old school in that, If I want to get ahead, Ill do it through hard work and self determination...
Anyway, im done on this topic - ive been called here racist, dinosaur, having white privelege, etc anything else I have missed? lol
Ostrich.
 

moorey

call me Mia
Agreed - I guess im just old school in that, If I want to get ahead, Ill do it through hard work and self determination...
Anyway, im done on this topic - ive been called here racist, dinosaur, having white privelege, etc anything else I have missed? lol
Libertarian?
 

PINT of Stella. mate!

Many, many Scotches
Why create a new thread when such a glorious shitfight already exists!

Anyway, it's January 26th tomorrow and I think it's all time for us to pause and reflect our shared history on such an auspicious day:

Full Article here: “Australia Day: No-one can stop me celebrating the anniversary of Captain Cook’s 334 not out against the advancing Japanese troops at Gallipoli” | The Shovel

OPINION: There’s been a fair bit of talk about moving the date of Australia Day recently. But these people don’t have any idea what they’re messing with. 26th January is sacred. Mark my words, it ‘aint moving.
Do all the complaining you want. But buggered if you’ll stop me celebrating Cooko’s triple century against a full-strength Japanese attack on a deteriorating Gallipoli wicket in ‘44-‘45.

It was the making of this country. Bob Hawke gave the nation a day off to celebrate. And yet here we are, trying to mess with it.
For those Australians, or should I say unAustralians, who don’t like it, it’s time for some truth bombs. Gallipoli is one of the toughest grounds to play in the world. They don’t call it ‘The Kokoda Track’ for nothing.
A three month journey on a tall sailing ship to get there. Uncovered wickets in those days as well. And despite everything that was thrown at him, our captain – Captain Cook – stood firm. Stood up, in fact, and said ‘No! We won’t pay our gold mining licence fee just because you tell us to’.
It was a turning point. An uprising. It forged the character of this nation. As Ned Kelly famously said about the game at the time, “I come from the land down under”.
But of course these whingers wouldn’t know that because they don’t study history. Don’t know the significance of that day. Don’t understand the blood that was spilled. And they never will because they don’t want to listen.
Shame.
 
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