2010 Angry Doctor

[leftieant]

Spiza - how long ago did you last visit the entry page on the AROC site? Was it actually last Friday?

If not, that older version may have been in your cache for some time...

Shouldn't be an issue - as it was clearly the conditions of sale at some point while they were selling entries (the dates are for 2010) - and given that the entries pretty much sold out on the day of release, one could argue that all the entries were sold under those conditions.

Agree, not being quick to condemn - but there needs to be an explanation of this - one way or the other.

 

[orphic]

I will never give AROC another cent ever again. This is why:

I printed out competitor briefing on Friday afternoon and clearly remember reading on their web site that if the event couldn’t go ahead on Sunday, they will try and reschedule for the week after. If for any reason it couldn’t go ahead the week after, it would then be cancelled and no refunds would be given. I had no problem with this as it would be unlikely that both weeks would be cancelled. I also recall reading this at the time I entered and paid for the event.

I was therefore very surprised when Alina announced at the oval that the event will not be rescheduled. That’s not what I remember reading on their web site.

When I checked their site Sunday afternoon, it had been changed. Any mention of rescheduling the event for the following week was removed. I checked my computer cache this morning and have taken a screen shot of the entry details page as it appeared on Friday afternoon under the topic Refunds:

QUOTE "Should the event be cancelled for any reason we will endeavour to reschedule the event to the following weekend (11th and 12th September). If you are unable to attend the rescheduled date or if the event cannot be rescheduled for any reason no refunds will be made"


Entry page on Sunday:

QUOTE "Should the event be cancelled for any reason no refunds will be made."


It would seem that when they realised on Sunday they would have to reschedule the event, there was panic. Fearing they would have to come back the following week, they decided to alter their web site knowing that people would get on there and check what the terms were. As a ‘backup’, they ran a lame 15km loop in dangerous conditions to declare that the event did go ahead but was shortened.

Shame on you AROC! Reneging on your terms and changing your web site in the hope that nobody would notice is absolutely disgusting and just plain wrong! I urge everyone who forked out $105 or $140 to email Alina for a PLEASE EXPLAIN!

I agree that the conditions were too dangerous for the Sunday racing to go ahead. The way AROC has handled this situation is WRONG!

By my calculation, AROC received over $165,000 from us suckers to host this event. I know that a lot of time went into organising the event which must be paid for. I know that there was perishable food, timing, toilets, insurance, etc that was paid for. I believe this still leaves AROC with a healthy profit from this non event (for us anyway).

I was reluctant to do another AROC event after Capital Punishment. Not because of the race conditions, but because that left dozens of people, including myself, stranded in a muddy paddock after the rain and 100+ cars leaving turned it into a bog. It was raining, pitch black and cars were either bogged or just couldn’t get traction up the hill to get out. Many people called the AROC emergency/organiser mobile numbers and left messages including several from me but none were returned. I guess they were too busy at Crown Plaza sipping Champaign and celebrating their huge profits to give a crap.

Poor form AROC!

Google has also cached that page. Cached on the 25th August:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...e+following+weekend"&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

 

[dinosaur_mtb]

Just got off the phone to my mate who was helicoptered to St George Hospital with a dislocated hip courtesy of trying to avoid someone who crashed on the water bars. He couldn't avoid him and came down at about 60kph and when his femurs knuckle was in his groin he knew he'd done some damage! A paramedic was on the ground fairly quickly and they had to stretcher him out as an ambulance couldn't get to him but was greatful for the rapid and professional first aid. I only spoke briefly but he did say that the race was a joke as everyone was going nuts. He didn't mention a refund.

Ouch - I can feel that femoral head now - all the best for his recovery.

Begs the question as to where the legal liability now lies? Was the new course an approved route with all the authorities? Seems that riding on 100km highways and choosing routes which some have described above seems ridiculous... Adventure at whose cost? AROC need to do and say something soon to restore any goodwill.

 

[dain2772]

Spiza - how long ago did you last visit the entry page on the AROC site? Was it actually last Friday?

If not, that older version may have been in your cache for some time...

If it did get changed after the event was cancelled, then AROC do deserve condemnation for doing that. I would ride next weekend instead if it were possible (unlikely to have the trails cleared by then, and no further stuff falling down that's still "hung up", so still a non-issue anyway IMO)

I am not going to judge hastily though.

I had the some thought as Spiza and when I went back today I couldn't find that phrase. I do clearly remember reading that, because I asked my wife at 6am on Sunday whether she wanted to travel back down next weekend...

I am pretty sure that I read that last week sometime. In any case, it was certainly AFTER I paid my entry fee, when presumably is when the contract is actually entered into. Yes, we all signed the indemnity form which stated about no refunds etc etc, but to change a condition like that is shocking...

 

[dinosaur_mtb]

Google has also cached that page. Cached on the 25th August:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...e+following+weekend"&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

Yes but they have an outer: "If you are unable to attend the rescheduled date or if the event cannot be rescheduled for any reason no refunds will be made."

As others have said - we'll have to wait what they're carefully considered response will be, but lets hope it's faster than those three independents at the last election..

 

[dain2772]

Yes but they have an outer: "If you are unable to attend the rescheduled date or if the event cannot be rescheduled for any reason no refunds will be made."

As others have said - we'll have to wait what they're carefully considered response will be, but lets hope it's faster than those three independents at the last election..

So is it better to use that outer, or try to remove a condition of contract?

Particularly when they were so specific with the date too - they didn't say that they would try to find another date, they had a specific weekend, so people could assume that they had contingency plans in place.

 

[tcurr]

Like everyone posting here, I was bitterly disappointed that the race yesterday was cancelled.

Unlike some though, I feel that AROC did the best that they could, and I have NO expectation of a refund. I was aware of the very small possibility of cancellation with no refund when I paid my money because I read the terms that I agreed to at the time. Yes, they have $150000+ of our money in entry fees, and presumably some sponsors money as well. The other side of the coin is that they must have spent lots on fixed costs (equipment hire etc), and - here's the thing - their own wages and livelihoods. AROC appears to employ at least 4 full time staff, and probably has more like 6-8 full time employed staff. Now divide the amount of cash left over after expenses are paid (what folk are referring to as "profit") and divide it amongst the AROC staff as their wages. Even with a few events of this scale per year, it's not a huge amount to be earning.

It seemed to me that the AROC team were eager to give the participants some kind, any kind, of race. It did not appear to be an attempt to prevent claims for refunds etc. What ensued was definitely a debacle, and with the benefit of hindsight should not have been run at all. I believe however, that the motivation for it was for all the right reasons.

In retrospect, it would have been good to have made a decision cancel as early as was practical. The 2 hour delay was reasonable as they needed to assess the trails in the daylight. As has been said, it was quickly plainly obvious that a race in the forest was not going be safe or possible.

Personally, I am hoping for a priority entry system for next years race for those affected by this years cancellation - with a discounted fee too perhaps. AROC could achieve this by simply e-mailing an offer to this years entrants a couple of weeks ahead of general entry opening.

I agree with everything here, I think they perhaps tried too hard to get some sort of race on but its easy to criticise this with the benefit of hindsight. I'm sure they would have been criticised for calling off at 6.30am when the winds could have dropped and the extent of damage was unclear. We could all make our own decision and go home at that point. I did at 9am as it seemed unlikely that any race organised would be much good.

It was silly to change the cancellation clause on the website but its really a moot point. Its hard to see how they could get a course and a race organised for next week anyway.

 

[davzab]

Ead aroc

I knew I read this Spiza, they had me thinking I had read it wrong since they changed it. Shame on AROC. thanks for the post. The fact that they would do something like this speaks for itself..

I didn't hear of any resonable attempt to "endevour to reschedule the event to the next weekend" when the prompt response at 9am to "Will we get refunds?" was "No". Nothing mentoned of next weekend or plans for anything else. Just that they would "maybe" attempt a dangerous and half arsed loop in the afternoon 5 and a half hours after the shedulled race start and when a call should have been made was insulting..

Sure none of us can do anything about the weather but handling of the events was the issure at hand here..

 

[top_oz_bloke]

One would wonder why the need to change it.

It may be a situation where the following weekend became unavailable prior to the event being run (well, sort of) and someone just updated the web site without thinking too much about it. After all, who's even going to look at a detail like this once the event is run and won.

A more transparent way to do it would simply have been to add an update saying a reshedule was no longer possible and therefore no refunds etc.

This is all benefit of the doubt scenario, if they have actually changed it after the event then it just looks dodgy as. Especially since the original text didn't commit to much anyway.

 

[m_g]

Spiza - how long ago did you last visit the entry page on the AROC site? Was it actually last Friday?

If not, that older version may have been in your cache for some time...

If it did get changed after the event was cancelled, then AROC do deserve condemnation for doing that. I would ride next weekend instead if it were possible (unlikely to have the trails cleared by then, and no further stuff falling down that's still "hung up", so still a non-issue anyway IMO)

I am not going to judge hastily though.

if those were the conditions at the time of entry, and changed anytime after entries were accepted (and participants were not advised and offered refunds), that is dodgy...

 

[taibo]

i went for a bit of an explore while waiting for the announcements on Sunday...the wind did a fantastic job of drying out the track!

 

[dinosaur_mtb]

So is it better to use that outer, or try to remove a condition of contract?

Particularly when they were so specific with the date too - they didn't say that they would try to find another date, they had a specific weekend, so people could assume that they had contingency plans in place.

Agreed:
1. AROC had a clause on their website with a specific date for a rerun of the 'real' Angry Doctor-Irate Intern, not some half baked effort which seemed pretty dangerous.
2. They should NOT have removed that clause on any subsequent web pages. Thank you for those who have now brought this up
3. Yes they could have used the outer and given a reasonable explanation as to why they couldn't fulfill a rerun. Reasonable people generally respond well to reasonable explanations. To be told - no re-run - without explanation (and some here knew and have evidence that they were offering a re-run) becomes unreasonable.
4. I have to agree that this does now looks very dodgy, to the point of being deceitful and some well reasoned explanations are now requested.
5. It now seems that their only interest is covering their tail. As some fellow riders have relayed to me this morning - if this company seemingly isn't going to do the right thing, then there are an abundance of other events to which they'd be happy to ride at. It's not as if we have a shortage of events or promoters.

So the question now is - how is AROC going to respond to this very public outing?

 

[Spiza]

How's this for an idea

Perhaps instead of just burying their heads in the sand, AROC can strike a deal with the jersey manufacturers and send everyone a jersey. I reckon a special edition one that plays on the cancelled event. They could get them made fairly cheap and still provide a $95 'value' to the punters as goodwill. Everyone can use a jersey.

 

[Blah!]

After this bloody bugger-up, I can safely say that myself and my mates that all raced CP and turned out for the doctor will not be paying for another AROC event. Case closed.

 

[murrum]

Surf was good though. Got some nice waves waiting for the 1230 race, then pulled the pin there an went back and got more. nice day. has put me of racing though - mostly the fact that I don't really want to be associated with a bunch of whingers - some MTBikers seem especially good at it. Warm, sunny day at the coast??? How bad can it be?

 

[Spinnerette]

How's this for an idea?

Perhaps instead of just burying their heads in the sand, AROC can strike a deal with the jersey manufacturers and send everyone a jersey. I reckon a special edition one that plays on the cancelled event. They could get them made fairly cheap and still provide a $95 'value' to the punters as goodwill. Everyone can use a jersey.

That would just provide free advertising for AROC. They don't deserve it!

 

[EzyLee]

Surf was good though. Got some nice waves waiting for the 1230 race, then pulled the pin there an went back and got more. nice day. has put me of racing though - mostly the fact that I don't really want to be associated with a bunch of whingers - some MTBikers seem especially good at it. Warm, sunny day at the coast??? How bad can it be?

Where did you end up surfing? I was tempted to take my board down. Will know for next time!

 

[cha_cha_]

How bad can it be?

normally it doesn't cost $140

 

[Spiza]

Surf was good though. Got some nice waves waiting for the 1230 race, then pulled the pin there an went back and got more. nice day. has put me of racing though - mostly the fact that I don't really want to be associated with a bunch of whingers - some MTBikers seem especially good at it. Warm, sunny day at the coast??? How bad can it be?

I'm glad you were able to salvage the day murrum

For me, it's the principle. If I ran my business the same way I would not have single customer.

 

[tprmc78]

I went exploring the first 50km while waiting for information at about 9am. Trails I agree were fairly dry but I couldn't make out where the track was in some places. Almost got hit by a few stray branches.

Shouldn't have really been out there. 2 hours too long in the forest.

Being from an event management backround it is always hard to call off an event no matter what the event is you are hosting. Having seen the tracks in the first 50 it is evident to me that the race was never going to be on.

Whats done is done now. I still had an enjoyable weekend almost got my cabin smashed by a tree. Lucky it went the other way. Enjoyed riding along the beach and enjoying the beach yesterday afternoon. Glorious day.

I will be back because I have had no problems with AROC when the weather is not playing havoc.