2013 Nationals

cleeshoy

Eats Squid
wow - interesting. Tried to enter +1 and her non-downhill options are:

Elite Female (All Mountain Cup) - $170.00
Veteran Female (All Mountain Cup) - $170.00
Point to Point Entry Only (AMC) - $55.00
Challenge (AMC) - $125.00

So if +1 wanted to just race the XCO, it's still $170. I have to say that sounds a bit steep. Sure I understand it's the Nationals but seriously $170? I hope the winners receive some bloody good prizes for that outlay :)
 
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serowe

Likes Dirt
Many of the so-called 'major sports' have (or are) going through this phase - they bellieve that entry to the top level events should be restricted to only those that can show off their sport in the bst light (ie the so-called 'elites').

Motorsport went through this as well with V8's - with their 'premier' event (Bathurst) going from a track capacity entry of 48 to, this year, 29 cars running on a 6+ km track.

The problem is that many of these sporting organisers forget that their bread and butter comes rom the 'non-elite' entrants and, whilst they don;t ride at the pointy end of the field, they at least make the category look healthy (in terms of numbers riding/racing).
 

Antsonline

Likes Dirt
One of these days, someone is gonna ask "are MTBA of any value at all?"

Before I get shot down, what I am not asking is "do they do anything?". I am sure they are doing things.
But - value?
A poorly run national series, with an event format that wasnt popular last year, run in venues that are inaccessible to 99% of the population of the country with entry fees and a pricing structure that are completely ridiculous.
I wonder how unpopular the XC series has to become before they admit that the whole thing needs a face lift.

Local communities and clubs are left to run State series races, with no obvious connection to anything national - certainly no coordination across states, or into the nationals.

Local trail advocacy is being performed by well meaning volunteers (e.g. Menai or Appin in NSW) with little support from MTBA. No coaching or advice for members.

Seriously?
Oh - wait - I get insurance. For some races. Which I could buy on the day anyway.
 

akashra

Eats Squid
I just want to be clear that I'm not dismissing what you're saying, but I will address what you've said and am happy to discuss further:

One of these days, someone is gonna ask "are MTBA of any value at all?"
Never mind "one of these days", I suspect this is probably the most commonly asked question in relation to MTBA.

Before I get shot down, what I am not asking is "do they do anything?". I am sure they are doing things.
But - value?
A poorly run national series, with an event format that wasnt popular last year, run in venues that are inaccessible to 99% of the population of the country with entry fees and a pricing structure that are completely ridiculous.
Yes, even those of us on the committee are aware that this years series is a major problem, as it was pulled together on very late timelines. Many of you will be aware of the budget positions of the previous two years of National Series - I'm not going to try to quote exact figures off the top of my head because I don't have the documents right in front of me at this time, but the budgets/financial reports are available on the MTBA website (usually... maybe?) as required at the AGM. From those you can see that the losses in running the National Series wasn't far off the ballpark of a $150-200k figure.
Largely due to this expense an agreement was entered in to for ACE to run the series from 2013-2017, whereby they will be the commercial operator of the series. It is in their best interests to make it relevant to the wider community, as if they fail to do so they will wear the financial loss. As part of this agreement they also need to meet a number of goals and requirements defined by MTBA.

Yes, 2013 will be unlikely to be touted as a massive success. They will need this to change in 2014.

On the topic of the entry fee, I tend to disagree it's "too expensive", BUT, I certainly frequently raise this concern that others perceive it this way. I suppose what we also need to do is get detailed info from people of not just how much they think it should cost, but what they expect to receive for their entry fee. What are they getting that they feel they don't need (and perhaps we need to explain why it's seen as necessary) and what are they not getting that they want?

I wonder how unpopular the XC series has to become before they admit that the whole thing needs a face lift.
It is for this reason that the 'All Mountain Cup' format came about.
XCO is the discipline under which we get UCI points; UCI points determine national ranking, and national ranking determines olympic places; olympic results determine funding. This is obviously oversimplifying it, but do consider this in why we need to include XCO.
The other formats are the response to rider demand for different styles of racing.

Local communities and clubs are left to run State series races, with no obvious connection to anything national - certainly no coordination across states, or into the nationals.
This is not necessarily true. It's a lot more complicated than saying that they're left to it.

Local trail advocacy is being performed by well meaning volunteers (e.g. Menai or Appin in NSW) with little support from MTBA. No coaching or advice for members.
You do understand that IMBA Australia is financed within the MTBA budget? A few years ago the MTBA membership fee was increased for the purpose of funding IMBA Australia. I'll also make it very clear that I'm a massive advocate of IMBA and the work Nick Bowman and his team do.

Seriously?
Oh - wait - I get insurance. For some races. Which I could buy on the day anyway.
Not just you, but the event organiser. Yes, individuals get some personal accident and income protection (have you investigated how much personally taking out income protection would cost you?)
But consider the myriad of incidents which could occur at an event which we hope don't, and there are very valid reasons this cover is necessary for not just individuals but event promoters, organisers, staff and volunteers.


Believe me when I say that there are many issues which myself and other committee members are arguing vehemently about to get fixed when it comes to small-detail issues with the National Series. I assure you we have the members interests in mind (while trying to balance those with the needs of the organisation), and concerns and requests for questions to be answered/addressed have been raised even as recently as in the last seven days - including from myself some taken from questions raised here.

Edit: Also remember that the level of cover you get from a day license is not the same as you get from having a full membership. Think of a day license as the insurance covering the organiser, not you. I don't want to attempt to quote the insurance policy without those details in front of me, but I think (off the top of my head, someone please correct me if I have this wrong) it's public liability and death only. It's not income protection, medical or TPD, if I remember correctly (and happy to be corrected or correct this once I'm able to go over it and double-check).
 
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cleeshoy

Eats Squid
I

On the topic of the entry fee, I tend to disagree it's "too expensive", BUT, I certainly frequently raise this concern that others perceive it this way. I suppose what we also need to do is get detailed info from people of not just how much they think it should cost, but what they expect to receive for their entry fee. What are they getting that they feel they don't need (and perhaps we need to explain why it's seen as necessary) and what are they not getting that they want?
+1 and I tend to be fairly price insensitive when it comes to spending money on bike races. This is the actually the first time where we baulked at the cost. I know it sounds clich'ed but factor in transport to get to Mt Buller, accommodation, food, etc and $170 doesn't seem value for money - especially given the plan was to only enter the XCO event which is going to last 60-90 mins.

Not having the option to race just the XCO is the reason for our hesitation (although I understand this might be an oversight I when I tried to register Josie?)
 

Antsonline

Likes Dirt
....loads of good, useful stuff.......

Believe me when I say that there are many issues which myself and other committee members are arguing vehemently about to get fixed when it comes to small-detail issues with the National Series. I assure you we have the members interests in mind (while trying to balance those with the needs of the organisation), and concerns and requests for questions to be answered/addressed have been raised even as recently as in the last seven days - including from myself some taken from questions raised here.
I just wonder how the 'National Series' and 'Members Interests' are the same thing. 100 riders at Nationals cant really constitute 'members'.

I actually appreciate you taking the time to respond. Ironically, you are not paid by MTBA (I dont beleive). I raced the National series last year, and the All Mountain cup was not a huge success - hence my surprise at it continuing.
Feedback was never solicited from riders in a constructive, organised manner.
The pricing schedule, and ability to enter individual events was probably the KEY complaint however - yet it would seem that it, too, has been ignored.
I appreciate that you are raising this on peoples (our) behalves, but I can only assume in you having to do this, that the original concerns were either ignored, or written off. Nothing mentioned is new since the end of the season.
Re pricing - for a female veteran (as in the info listed above) to have to pay $170 to race for (probably) 2 laps of a 5km circuit in a venue that would certainly require at least one nights accom, and one days travel - no matter where you are from) - its impossible to argue that it represents value, nor does it attract more people.

As a member - I would consider myself a shareholder in the 'business' of MTBA. If ANY product (let alone the 'flagship' product of National Series) in another business was run at a loss of anything like $150-$200k (I would love to know what % that is of total budget) the board would be removed.
I know - we have the opportunity to vote on members - but abject failure such at that should mean that re-application for roles should not be permitted. "there are no other candidates" is not the response that would be accepted in anywhere other than a central African Oligarchic 'democracy'.

Re IMBA funding - I wasnt aware. I was probably told, so my bad. Thank you.

State Series Racing - in a country with the geographic size of Australia a State series that is not linked in some way to National level is a shambles.
 

serowe

Likes Dirt
State Series Racing - in a country with the geographic size of Australia a State series that is not linked in some way to National level is a shambles.
As Tim alluded to though - the State Race Series (in all states) are, in effect, totally divorced from MTBA anyway. Anyone can run them - it just depends on who gets in first with the title! But, and this has been discussed numerous times here, is really the subject of a whole other 'discussion'.

And granted, there should be a heirachy - but, unfortunately, there isn't. Club - regional - state - national - international/olympic. Each level should be a stepping stone to the next level (again, this has been the subject of many varied and heated discussions though.
 

jane

Squid
I too believe $170 is way too expensive. I had planned to do this event, until I saw the cost. I just want to race the Xc on the Saturday. I rang and spoke with cycling vic who are running this event for mtba, and mtba have instructed them to run the event this way, at this cost. So....I have checked the calender and there is an event on in warrnambool that same Saturday, might take a trip in that direction instead.
 

akashra

Eats Squid
I too believe $170 is way too expensive. I had planned to do this event, until I saw the cost. I just want to race the Xc on the Saturday. I rang and spoke with cycling vic who are running this event for mtba, and mtba have instructed them to run the event this way, at this cost. So....I have checked the calender and there is an event on in warrnambool that same Saturday, might take a trip in that direction instead.
CV have nothing to do with the MTBA national series. Nothing. And this is far beyond being inaccurate but just a plain lie. I would love to know specifics on where this misinformation was dished out from.

The decision on entry pricing is a commercial decision made by ACE as organiser of the events, in part with a subcommittee who is responsible for many details. I can't really talk about what MTBA's agreement says with ACE/CA other to say that no, MTBA do not dictate what the entry fee 'must' be.

What bothers me is that people see $170 when many are paying ~$400 in flights or a tank to two of fuel, plus two nights accommodation, and don't factor in that Bike Buller costs more than this for a similar event. Lets say the entry was $70 instead - the issue is with a small portion of the overall budget for them to do the event.
 

jane

Squid
I was directed from mtba with my price enquiry to karin jones at cycling vic, who is running the event for cycling vic on behalf of mtba. My question was why can't I race a national round race Xc as a single race, I don,t wish to race a "weekend" event. The point to point on Sunday can be entered as a single event, so why can,t the Xc?
 

akashra

Eats Squid
Ah, there's your problem. Cycling Australia, not Cycling Victoria. CV are the state federation. ACE is CA, who are running the series.
As for your question: I have had this from a few people in the past few days, and am trying to get an answer. Bear with me.
 

DoubleD

Likes Dirt
Yes, even those of us on the committee are aware that this years series is a major problem, as it was pulled together on very late timelines. Many of you will be aware of the budget positions of the previous two years of National Series - I'm not going to try to quote exact figures off the top of my head because I don't have the documents right in front of me at this time, but the budgets/financial reports are available on the MTBA website (usually... maybe?) as required at the AGM. From those you can see that the losses in running the National Series wasn't far off the ballpark of a $150-200k figure.

Largely due to this expense an agreement was entered in to for ACE to run the series from 2013-2017, whereby they will be the commercial operator of the series. It is in their best interests to make it relevant to the wider community, as if they fail to do so they will wear the financial loss. As part of this agreement they also need to meet a number of goals and requirements defined by MTBA.
Surely, if a National Association in charge of a competitive sport has to do one thing right it's running the event(s) that select the National Champions in that sport.

The National Championships should be the crown jewel. They should be the culmination of the year and sit at the pinnacle of integrated club and state level competitions and events.

And here's a newsflash - they don't need to make a profit. They do need to be a success. Cover the loss with the exorbitant fees we pay to get the licence to compete at these events.
 

johndh

Likes Dirt
2013 nationals email just recieved

Entries open for Subaru Australian Mountain Bike Championships

Entries have now opened for the 2013 Subaru Australian Mountain Bike Championships.

Promoted by Cycling Australia and Mountain Bike Australia, the Championships will be held at Stromlo Forest Park, Canberra, from February 20 – 24 showcasing Australia’s best Mountain Bikers vying for the converted green and gold jersey.

Mount Stromlo and surrounds have been home to Australian mountain biking since the sports inception in Australia, with the area having hosted the first national championships in 1989 and again in 2007-2009. Stromlo Forest Park was also host to the 2008 UCI World MTB Cup and 2009 Mountain Bike World Championships.

The 2013 Championships will hold four formats of MTB racing including Olympic Cross Country (XCO), Cross Country Eliminator (XCE), Downhill (DHI) and Bicycle Trials (OT).

Competitors and spectators will have the perfect opportunity to experience some exciting Mountain biking from the nation’s best.

The Subaru MTB championships fall between rounds two and three of the Australian National Series which will ensure all riders are in peak form.

Subaru Australian Mountain Bike Championships:

Stromlo Forrest Park, ACT, Feb 19 th – 24 th

XCE Register NOW

DH Register NOW

XCO Register NOW

OT Register NOW

REMINDER: NO on-the-day entries will be accepted for the Australian Championships. For a detailed schedule please visit http://www.mtba.asn.au/

Want you bike to travel for free? For travel and booking assistance to and from the Subaru Australian National MTB Championships - check out Active Travel
 

mittagongmtb

Likes Dirt
To undertake the full National XC Series potentially will cost me something like $6420 for our 2 family members ... mmm, sorry MTBA may only end up going to Champs only.

bullerthredbobrightstromloglenorchy
entry x 23403403403403401700
transport240200200805001220
accomodation-food2502502502501000
loss of income5005005005005002500
Total13301290129092015906420
 
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NCR

Likes Bikes
XCO Entry Stromlo

Just entered the xco nationals at Stromlo, $100 for one xc race.........f*#k!
 
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