2015 Giant Reign owners

Z

Zaf

Guest
Ive been a bit wordy, I apologise, I'll be clearer. I'd run stock can over the Vorsprung.
The Vorsprung's advertised performance increase did not match actual ride quality, it felt under damped compared to the stock can. The low breakaway pressure, although better over small bumps compared to the stock can, wasn't worth the pay-off in poor sag position (which wasn't remedied by a corresponding increase in pressure or volume spacers) and blowing through travel.

They're claim is that it's as good as a coil, that's why I mention how the Float X feels against the Vivid.
 
udi

udi

swiss cheese
Zaf said:
Ive been a bit wordy, I apologise, I'll be clearer. I'd run stock can over the Vorsprung.
The Vorsprung's advertised performance increase did not match actual ride quality, it felt under damped compared to the stock can. The low breakaway pressure, although better over small bumps compared to the stock can, wasn't worth the pay-off in poor sag position (which wasn't remedied by a corresponding increase in pressure or volume spacers) and blowing through travel.

They're claim is that it's as good as a coil, that's why I mention how the Float X feels against the Vivid.
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a) What you claim regarding sag not changing with pressure increase is physically impossible, if you increase the pressure, the sag will change. So I'm going to go ahead and suggest people ignore that claim - perhaps the chambers didn't equalise properly in your case or it was a measurement error, but I doubt you've managed to change the laws of physics. What's more likely is that the sag was changing *less* than expected because you're used to a Monarch+, where the increase in initial harshness (and thus sag) is nonlinear.

b) Vorsprung don't claim it's "as good as a coil" and neither did I. I clearly stated a coil was superior, and so do Vorsprung if you read their website:

We could tell you it's "exactly the same as a coil", but even though some of our test riders were hard pressed to tell the difference, that wouldn't be quite accurate (as you can see from the above graphs)
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zaf

Guest
The Monarch+ was purchased after the Vorsprung can, and and for a Stumpjumper.

The negative spring has equalised to the positive, which reduces the breakaway pressure on the initial part of the stroke. In my experience, this normalises beyond 220psi, and there is not enough positive spring pressure to overcome the significantly reduced breakaway force until it's hit 30% sag.
It doesn't matter how "physically impossible" you think it to be, this is how it behaved. If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong.
 
udi

udi

swiss cheese
Zaf said:
In my experience, this normalises beyond 220psi, and there is not enough positive spring pressure to overcome the significantly reduced breakaway force until it's hit 30% sag.
It doesn't matter how "physically impossible" you think it to be, this is how it behaved. If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong.
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You should probably continue this discussion in the "2013 Yeti SB66c owners" thread, since this one is about the Reign.

Also, sag measurement is remarkably accurate and scientific, I'd certainly trust that over the laws of physics.
 
waldog

waldog

Likes Bikes and Dirt
udi said:
a) What you claim regarding sag not changing with pressure increase is physically impossible, if you increase the pressure, the sag will change. So I'm going to go ahead and suggest people ignore that claim - perhaps the chambers didn't equalise properly in your case or it was a measurement error, but I doubt you've managed to change the laws of physics. What's more likely is that the sag was changing *less* than expected because you're used to a Monarch+, where the increase in initial harshness (and thus sag) is nonlinear.

b) Vorsprung don't claim it's "as good as a coil" and neither did I. I clearly stated a coil was superior, and so do Vorsprung if you read their website:
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I'm taking back my e-hug.

Whilst you probably know your shit, you need to adjust your attitude on how you apply it from an advice perspective...
 
udi

udi

swiss cheese
waldog said:
I'm taking back my e-hug.
Whilst you probably know your shit, you need to adjust your attitude on how you apply it from an advice perspective...
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I don't really need to do anything, and I'm sorry you've taken my e-hug rejection harshly - it's nothing personal.

However - I've used said can in said frame (which Zaf hasn't) and it works very well over the other *air* options.
It'd be a shame for someone to miss out on that opportunity because it didn't work for him on an unrelated frame.
 
waldog

waldog

Likes Bikes and Dirt
udi said:
I don't really need to do anything, and I'm sorry you've taken my e-hug rejection harshly - it's nothing personal
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No worries, I highly doubt you're such an arrogant knob in real life, but your internet persona certainly is.
 
udi

udi

swiss cheese
waldog said:
No worries, I highly doubt you're such an arrogant knob in real life, but your internet persona certainly is.
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I'm just a regular knob in real life. :lol:
Apologies for being blunt - excessively so.

Which coil shock are you running in your Reign?
I'm actually surprised so many people are running coils, I think it's great, but I thought most others cared about weight too much to switch.
 
waldog

waldog

Likes Bikes and Dirt
udi said:
I'm just a regular knob in real life. :lol:
Apologies for being blunt - excessively so.

Which coil shock are you running in your Reign?
I'm actually surprised so many people are running coils, I think it's great, but I thought most others cared about weight too much to switch.
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Don't we all love regular knob in real life.... oh wait.... I'm pretty confident i fall into the same category though.

Shock wise, i'm running a cheap Fox DHX RC2 that i picked up off a Facebook group. It's pretty basic, but I was well aware of this, and it was only ever intended to be a toe in the water, but I was well aware of how much better a coil is since running one on my last frame. Loving it so far, but I'm a little undersprung.

Plan is to buy a heavier spring, and then most likely sell the Monarch Plus and this shock and purchase either a Vivid or Cane Creek DB.

On more people running coils, I think their realising the performance benefit far outweighs the minimal weight gain.
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
waldog said:
I'm taking back my e-hug.

Whilst you probably know your shit, you need to adjust your attitude on how you apply it from an advice perspective...
Click to expand...
Hold on a minute, he was challenged 1 and 2 he was insulted by an internet expert. I don't know why everyone takes what's on the net as gospel most of the time. Hydraulics can be very complicated and people like Fox and rockshox aren't going to give information out willy nilly over the net about it. All these articles on the net that people read, all of a sudden they become experts on hydraulic, pneumatics and mechanical and in realty can't even pull a shock apart without fucking it. I might add that you're not going to get the best results out of increasing the air volume chamber without changing the valving on the shock to suit.
 
waldog

waldog

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Flow-Rider said:
Hold on a minute, he was challenged 1 and 2 he was insulted by an internet expert. I don't know why everyone takes what's on the net as gospel most of the time. Hydraulics can be very complicated and people like Fox and rockshox aren't going to give information out willy nilly over the net about it. All these articles on the net that people read, all of a sudden they become experts on hydraulic, pneumatics and mechanical and in realty can't even pull a shock apart without fucking it. I might add that you're not going to get the best results out of increasing the air volume chamber without changing the valving on the shock to suit.
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Sorry, I'm not following what you're saying.

Have you not just reiterated some of what udi has already said?
 
waldog

waldog

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Flow-Rider said:
I don't think I need to point it out.
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Actually, I think you do.

Let me guess, you think I'm the one to pull my head? Yes?


Flow-Rider said:
I just thought it was a bit of a harsh of comment. He has been more than human to explain everything.
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All I was asking for was an explanation of the "facts" that were stated in the previous post. Without that it really didn't carry much weight, and came across as arrogant.

It's since been explained further, and I'm much appreciative and for the fact.

By all means, feel free call me out on something, but don't wrap it up in a nice little package of implied notions. I'm a big girl, I can handle it. Very happy to talk it out and realise I'm in the wrong.
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
waldog said:
Actually, I think you do.

Let me guess, you think I'm the one to pull my head? Yes? .
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Nope, I see another post as laughing in someone's face and not Zaf either, of coarse UDI is going to get on his back foot.


waldog said:
All I was asking for was an explanation of the "facts" that were stated in the previous post. Without that it really didn't carry much weight, and came across as arrogant.

It's since been explained further, and I'm much appreciative and for the fact.

By all means, feel free call me out on something, but don't wrap it up in a nice little package of implied notions. I'm a big girl, I can handle it. Very happy to talk it out and realise I'm in the wrong.
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No worries, no time to argue, already said what I had to say.
 
teK--

teK--

Eats Squid
Zaf said:
The Monarch+ was purchased after the Vorsprung can, and and for a Stumpjumper.

The negative spring has equalised to the positive, which reduces the breakaway pressure on the initial part of the stroke. In my experience, this normalises beyond 220psi, and there is not enough positive spring pressure to overcome the significantly reduced breakaway force until it's hit 30% sag.
It doesn't matter how "physically impossible" you think it to be, this is how it behaved. If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong.
Click to expand...
I second this. From about 200 to 230psi on my Monarch+ Debonair on a Reign, the sag consistently sits at bang on 30%. I couldn't run less sag if I wanted to but I didn't push air above 230. So I set my pressure based on what I feel during riding gives the chassis a good front/rear attitude and ability to use full travel.
 
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