Are Race Entries costing too much?

[serowe]

And how many competitors in those European events you quote?

 

[cleeshoy]

MTB races are to expensive.

There's no way round it. There's a select few that are making an absolute killing.


Let's take a european approach.

Orienteering competition: 5 days of competition over 6 days.

Total Cost: $230 AUD

Includes showers and toilets at event arenas each day and at camping area, camping for 4 people for 10 days, 1 persons entry for 5 days of competition, major clothing and food store set up and free samples.

$230. For all that.


You'd be lucky to get that set-up for a 1 day race here for $230.

I'm talking like such a company like rebel sport sets up a clothing shop at the arena just for the event and woolworths sets up a food store just for the event.

And the thing is, the organising club still makes a few million out of the event.

If you think you can organise an event of that scale for that cost, go ahead and do it. Theoretically nothing should be stopping you

Its one thing to whinge and complain, its another thing to actually do something about it.

 

[Purt]

And how many competitors in those European events you quote?

Anywhere between 15 000 and 23 000...

If you think you can organise an event of that scale for that cost, go ahead and do it. Theoretically nothing should be stopping you

Its one thing to whinge and complain, its another thing to actually do something about it.

I never said I wanted to. I said that Australian events are to expensive. Simple really, it's just waiting for someone to open up the market.

It's the internet I'm aloud to whinge and complain as much as I want and do nothing.

It's pretty hard to get the money or get a loan to set up such an event when you're 17. There you go mark that one off your list.

 

[serowe]

Well there's the reason the events are 'affordable' in Europe - can you honestly say that ANY Australian MTB type event has more than 10-15% the numbers you just quoted??

 

[.stu.]

Only 17? I'm in shock, with such extensive financial knowledge I'd picked you for at least 19. You are wise beyond your years.

 

[Pizzaz]

Anywhere between 15 000 and 23 000...




I never said I wanted to. I said that Australian events are to expensive. Simple really, it's just waiting for someone to open up the market.

It's the internet I'm aloud to whinge and complain as much as I want and do nothing.

It's pretty hard to get the money or get a loan to set up such an event when you're 17. There you go mark that one off your list.

(this is the race entry without stuff like accommodation extras etc - gets too hard to compare apples)
Terra Australis MTB - $(AU)799
Crocodile Trophy - $(AU)2600
Cape Epic - $(US)2050
BC Bike Race - $(US)1899
Alpine Epic (NZ) - $(NZ)945
Transalp - 625 Euro
Solo entry into 24hrs of Moab - $US350 (team of 4 - $480)
Sydney 24 - Team of 4, $360 Solo - $95


I dunno... to me it looks like race entry fees are similar-ish for enduro style events across the world. The fact we (now) have a fair few promoters out there and most races seem to cost in the same ballpark (i.e. a 100km marathon run by a PP is somewhere between $120 - $140) to me means that there's probably not a huge profit margin in them (sure there's fiddling around the edges but we're not talking an order of magnitude out)...

 

[bike182mtb]

value ?

most riders take about 5-6 hours to do a 100km so this works out at $20 per hour.or you can pay $8 per hour to race in a 4 hour at western sydney mtb club on the 5/12 great value just go to wsmtb.com and entry you can go sole or in a team.

 

[29er]

The tour down under roadie ride costs $140 to ride on public roads that I can ride anytime. The other week they had a charity ride for The Amy Gillet Foundation which cost $95. There were 3000 riders and the charity got $110,000. This works out to $36 per rider. Im not sure who got the rest.

When you compare Mtb events with event like these I think they offer reasonable value for money.

 

[Riderdown]

Expensive but good!

Having done a few events, I have found the cost prohibitive but having said that I have loved every event that I have done. The Monts a great example: about $150 to enter another $150 food and bits and peices and I only got 3 laps, thats $100 bucks a lap but I had a ball and will do another at some stage.

Yes these are an expensive ride but they are well run events that I have never regretted doing.

I would suggest that for the decerning rider looking for value try SCUM's 30/60/90 or Shack Attack 6hr mid year.

 

[pistonbroke]

What about team events? Lets say a solo entry costs $120 for an enduro event. A team of 2 may cost $100 per person(1/2 the riding), and a 4 person team may cost $90 per person(1/4 of the riding), and so on.

So in conclusion, if you are looking for the best value, go solo.
S.O.L.O I'm ride'n solo.

I ride solo, as I have no friends.

 

[ashl]

No... we don't get any "run off". Just curious as to why you would think this? They don't owe us anything. However the local town see's massive run off, and most people in the town the OO is seen as a very important to us.
I don't ever begrudge any Private Promoter making money out of events.
To those who say "where does the money go". Well that's simple. First it goes to pay for outgoings, then it goes to profit. That's generally why they do it... and there's nothing wrong with that.
The Forrest MTB & Cycling Club, never charges anything for our normally "little" club races. We give out prizes (not money) which means that we normally end up costing money to run our club events.
Let's not forget that this country is mostly run on the backs of small business entrepreneurs. Which is exactly what most PP's are. Just normal people trying to make a buck to put food on their table. Don't begrudge them that.
So where to from here? Club events should still continue to run, and PP's (IMHO) should continue to grow even more. PP's can and often do put on the best events, and they need our support.

I heard (from a friend of one of the OO promoters) that they don't make much money - the sponsorship was effectively their profit.

Taking the woodend 110k race or the Otway odyssey (or the Alpine Classic in road riding) - they are really memorable days, they are well supported, there are lots of people, they are basically well organised. There is no way that you can personally challenge yourself the way those roads do, without the structure of a big race. I think to extend some of the Economics 101 analysis, the law of diminishing returns also applies. For me, about four big events a year seems to be enough - that plus dirt crits, although i've never seen one of the alleged prizes...

 

[Purt]

Only 17? I'm in shock, with such extensive financial knowledge I'd picked you for at least 19. You are wise beyond your years.

Seriously?! Thanks mate.

I did do economics at school, so maybe that has something to do with it.


Still there is a big opening for a large scale event down here. With cheap entries to gain numbers. The biggest challenge would be getting approval to use the land. But with cheap entry good tracks, capable of catering for large numbers there is a huge opening.

I've only done a few mtb races, the ones which were sub $20 entry. I'd love to do more but at the price they are I'd rather pimp up my ride and ride the course when I feel like it for free.


The only ones that I can understand having massive prices is ones using private land, or a once off race.

 

[serowe]

The only ones that I can understand having massive prices is ones using private land

But if you think about this logically, these are the races that should be cheaper to run - no govt permit fees, no fees payable to the land owner and so on - so why would you expefct them to be dearer to run?

 

[Jackstack]

But if you think about this logically, these are the races that should be cheaper to run - no govt permit fees, no fees payable to the land owner and so on - so why would you expefct them to be dearer to run?

I'm guessing that the old 'what's in it for me?' would apply to a lot of private land owner's letting people use their land for events. Not saying all, but a lot.

 

[johndh]

For me the issue is "value for $$" if I leave a race or any activity (eg see a movie, go out for tea etc) did I get what I paid for?? The bigger events are exactly that "events" not just a ride around a track, you need to create the event atmosphere, I don't get the sense at some events (some are run by professional event managers) they don't focus enough on the event just the track. This relates to things such as support at event (toilets, first aid, bike services, venue set up, results, support staff, announcer etc), pre event communication, presentations, giveaways, prizes, etc.

 

[serowe]

Possibly, but I think you will find that the majority of private land owners that allow their property to be used for MTB events are either already heavily involved in MTB'ing (Chum Creek and Jubbaland in VIC come to mind) or community groups such as the Scouts. As such they don't have fees in place that State and National Parks have.

 

[uhuforrest]

Possibly, but I think you will find that the majority of private land owners that allow their property to be used for MTB events are either already heavily involved in MTB'ing (Chum Creek and Jubbaland in VIC come to mind) or community groups such as the Scouts. As such they don't have fees in place that State and National Parks have.

To run an event on public land in Victoria, will cost close to $1,000 in permit fees before you even start.

The "kick-in" point for fees is 30 riders.

Roland

 

[serowe]

With a very real possibility that these fees will rise considerably if the government doesn't change on Saturday...

 

[normdouglas]

With a very real possibility that these fees will rise considerably if the government doesn't change on Saturday...

What evidence do you have on this Steve?
The current government has recently scrapped entry costs to a number of major public lands, and they also scrapped the increase that was planned for the "per user" fee earlier this year.

I'm no economist... just a guy who's successfully put food on my table from my own devices for sometime now and I can tell you this.
The market will dictate how much something costs. The consumer will tell you if you've hit the mark. Generally something will be priced according to "how much is someone willing to pay", or "what is this worth to the consumer".

Anyway, it's a worthy conversation to be had... minus the so-called 20,000 odd figure for other events.

 

[serowe]

No definitive 'proof' - only conversations with local MP over recent months (read last 12 months or so) in relation to Parks Victoria policies (these initially centred around PV requirement for 'photography permits' which are not widely advertised or known about). He has 'concerns' things like this will happen 'under the table' (fee increases etc) on a 'cost recovery' basis and also pressure from local and state green groups.