Armstrong Charged with Doping

[Blackheath]

That's fantastic

 

[placebo]

Same goes for the cyclking guy on sbs yesterday going on about how he should be talking to USADA not Oprah - what a crock - show me someone who would choose to speak to the body who has relentlessly pursued you to fark your life, OR get $5m or whatever for an interview - and i'll show you a liar. He's doing pretty much what we expected, and he doesnt think he cheated against his contemporaries.

There are no clean athletes that would have won any of those tours had LA not been there - they'd have simply moved one place upwards

If he'd confessed at the USADA hearing instead of during the Oprah interview Armstrong would still have five tour victories, and a two year ban. Instead he's got nothing, and a lifetime ban, with the UCI saying he has no place in cycling. I'd say that someone who got $5m or whatever for an interview and lost all that is a stubborn liar.

As for clean athletes, everything Armstrong and others like him got was stolen from them.

Brad McGee: "I was competing not just against Armstrong, but against the Armstrong years. I feel my professional years — my Tour de France years — have been stolen."
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/how-dopers-stole-the-best-years-of-my-career-20121026-28aif.html

Nicole Cooke: "I have been robbed by drugs cheats, but am fortunate. I am here with more in my basket than the 12-year-old dreamed of. But for many people out there who do ride clean - people with morals - many of these people have had to leave the sport with nothing after a lifetime of hard work, some going through horrific financial turmoil."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20946301

 

[Dene Dweller]

They should change the penalty to a lifetime ban for any doping offence, it might make poeple think twice before crossing the line.

 

[Registered Nutcase]

They should change the penalty to a lifetime ban for any doping offence, it might make poeple think twice before crossing the line.

Banning drugs does not work. What they should be looking at is having to competitions one with assistance is allowed, one where it is not.

 

[Dene Dweller]

Banning drugs does not work. What they should be looking at is having to competitions one with assistance is allowed, one where it is not.

I totally disagree with the two competition theory. If that's the case I might have to start giving my 12yo duaghter PED's so she can be better at netball. We should be promoting 'clean' sport within the rules.

 

[Art Vanderlay]

Lance + Oprah = a crock of shit.

I've got this feeling that Lance is going to get a slap on the wrist and will be back racing triathlons or whatever he wants to do very soon.

Not sure if this is a good question, Did he even have cancer? Or was this staged (as well) to make his story even better? Surely anyone that has been through a terrible ordeal like that wouldn't even consider the risk implications of taking drugs just to enhance your cycling.

Who knows, he's the sort of person that would go to great lengths to make his story the fairytale of all fairytale's....

 

[Dene Dweller]

Lance + Oprah = a crock of shit.

I've got this feeling that Lance is going to get a slap on the wrist and will be back racing triathlons or whatever he wants to do very soon.

Not sure if this is a good question, Did he even have cancer? Or was this staged (as well) to make his story even better? Surely anyone that has been through a terrible ordeal like that wouldn't even consider the risk implications of taking drugs just to enhance your cycling.

Who knows, he's the sort of person that would go to great lengths to make his story the fairytale of all fairytale's....

I understand asking that question as he's been living a lie for the last 20 years, although I'm satisfied he did have cancer. He cranked the drug before and after cancer as he's a win at all costs person. So to is Tom Wiesel the USPS team owner.

 

[No Skid Marks]

At least he was honest about hiding secrets LOL - He isnt going to do a tell all of everyone involved and he said as much - i'm a bit aussie and can understand the dont be a dobber mentality. I dont see the previous dopers telling on others as deserving of some sort of repentence, they're simply trying to save their own skin.

Same goes for the cyclking guy on sbs yesterday going on about how he should be talking to USADA not Oprah - what a crock - show me someone who would choose to speak to the body who has relentlessly pursued you to fark your life, OR get $5m or whatever for an interview - and i'll show you a liar. He's doing pretty much what we expected, and he doesnt think he cheated against his contemporaries.

There are no clean athletes that would have won any of those tours had LA not been there - they'd have simply moved one place upwards

Well said.
I didn't see round two of Doprah(where can I watch it now?).
But I have to say I was well impressed with the shit he took, without name calling, and only subtly saying everyone competitive was on drugs.
He played on a level playing field. Shit for those in the clean league, and a huge shame. But still an amazing effort if it wasn't dirtier than doping, and he had other cheat benefits.
Those poor riders competing with out drug assistance. Can feel for them for sure. Such a shame they'll never really see justice. Pride is worth more than coin or fame though.

 

[Registered Nutcase]

Of course you could do it, but that is taking to a silly extream. I would prepose that a certian age and level splits, similar in concept of splittling girls and boys when they hit puberty.

Banning people from drugs simply does not work, both in sport an society as whole. We need a new approach to it. If they want to take drugs who cares still impressive, does it matter that much if they are using their body at 110% of natural ability if it is an even playing field?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[No Skid Marks]

Of course you could do it, but that is taking to a silly extream. I would prepose that a certian age and level splits, similar in concept of splittling girls and boys when they hit puberty.

Banning people from drugs simply does not work, both in sport an society as whole. We need a new approach to it. If they want to take drugs who cares still impressive, does it matter that much if they are using their body at 110% of natural ability if it is an even playing field?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Would it ever be an even playing field though. And it's not peoples choice really. It's a big dollar business, where would it end? They'd probably be making mutant babies in labs the second the bar was lifted. Would be interesting though.

 

[StanTheMan]

Would it ever be an even playing field though. And it's not peoples choice really. It's a big dollar business, where would it end? They'd probably be making mutant babies in labs the second the bar was lifted. Would be interesting though.

create a Nanderthal

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...neanderthal-if-i/story-fnet08ck-1226558084466

game over

 

[tim73]

Full Interview

http://www.balls.ie/cycling/the-full-lance-armstrong-and-oprah-winfrey-interview-parts-1-and-2/#sthash.yVXZwu8m.ogdDmhXw.dpbs

Just watched it, a few people asked for a link.

 

[udi]

He played on a level playing field.

That's not true and a very short-sighted conclusion to jump to.

Doping isn't a simple game where you're either in or clean, there's levels of ability to obtain substances and services, ability to fund the required substances and services (i.e. financial capacity), ability to avoid getting caught, and numerous other factors.

Doping itself seems to run through all levels of competition, but Lance only won because he was the most ruthless at it. Do yourself a favour and read the USADA report.

There are quotes in there where he gave team mates and colleagues a hard time for being 'tight' in terms of their monetary investment into doping. He did not win on a level playing field by any means.

 

[placebo]

Well said.
I didn't see round two of Doprah(where can I watch it now?).
But I have to say I was well impressed with the shit he took, without name calling, and only subtly saying everyone competitive was on drugs.
He played on a level playing field. Shit for those in the clean league, and a huge shame. But still an amazing effort if it wasn't dirtier than doping, and he had other cheat benefits.
Those poor riders competing with out drug assistance. Can feel for them for sure. Such a shame they'll never really see justice. Pride is worth more than coin or fame though.

That's a load of crap. Did you read anything of Armstrong's behaviour in this thread or the other widely available sources, or just watch that snow job interview on Oprah?

 

[placebo]

This was posted earlier in the thread, but it will be very useful for those joining the thread after having watched Oprah:

I also think that makes the efforts of those not on the juice all the more worthy. The level playing argument is complete bullshit IMO.

But for the Lance fan bois I thought I would be helpful...so you can recognise how you are progressing (apologies to Kubler-Ross).


Denial — "Lance never tested positive to drugs"
Denial is usually only a temporary defense, about 12 years for the average Lance fan boi. This feeling is generally replaced with heightened awareness of the 7 TdF titles lost. Denial can be conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, or the reality of the situation. Denial is a defense mechanism and some people can become locked in this stage.

Anger — "Its a witch hunt", "what about all the lives he has saved with Livestrong"
Once in the second stage, the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue. Because of anger, the person is very difficult to reason with due to misplaced feelings of rage and envy. Anger can manifest itself in different ways. People can be angry with themselves, or with others, and especially those who are close to them. It is important to remain detached and nonjudgmental when dealing with a person experiencing anger from grief of TdF victories lost.

Bargaining — "everyone else was doing it."; "he was just leveling the playing field...", "it wasn't just the drugs it was training and natural ability..."
The third stage involves the hope that the individual can somehow postpone or delay the loss of 7 TdF titles and Olympic medal. Usually, the negotiation for keeping the 7 TdF titles is made with a higher power in exchange for a reformed lifestyle, we call this 'Livestrong'. Psychologically, the individual is saying, "I understand he doped but Livestong makes up for it... leveling the playing field...". Bargaining rarely provides a sustainable solution, especially if it's a matter of TdF or Olympic medals.

Depression — "Everyone does it, what is the point of following road bike riding"; "it isn't the same without Lance"; "I can't watch the TdF anymore"
During the fourth stage, the fan boi begins to understand the certainty of Lance being a dirty rotten lowlife cheat. Because of this, the individual may become silent, refuse visitors and spend much of the time crying and grieving. This process allows the fan boi to disconnect from his love of Lance. It is not recommended to attempt to cheer up a fan boi who is in this stage. It is an important time for grieving that must be processed. Depression could be referred to as the dress rehearsal for the 'aftermath'. It is a kind of acceptance with emotional attachment. It's natural to feel sadness, regret, fear, and uncertainty when going through this stage. Feeling those emotions shows that the person has begun to accept that Lance is a cheat.

Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well accept Lance is a cheat."
In this last stage, individuals begin to come to terms with Lance's lie. This stage varies according to the person's situation. Lance entered this stage in July 2012 when he elected not to contest the charges by USADA, a long time before the fan bois he left behind, who must pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief.

 

[No Skid Marks]

That's not true and a very short-sighted conclusion to jump to.

Doping isn't a simple game where you're either in or clean, there's levels of ability to obtain substances and services, ability to fund the required substances and services (i.e. financial capacity), ability to avoid getting caught, and numerous other factors.

Doping itself seems to run through all levels of competition, but Lance only won because he was the most ruthless at it. Do yourself a favour and read the USADA report.

There are quotes in there where he gave team mates and colleagues a hard time for being 'tight' in terms of their monetary investment into doping. He did not win on a level playing field by any means.

I meant level as in he beat them at the same game. Not saying it's cool in any way. It's totally lame. My point was he won in the situation I'd imagine most of the top guys were in. That's at face value. I'm sure there was much more corruption etc that we'll never know about. It's obviously not just about who trains the best etc. It's the whole package. Everyones known the whole thing was dodgy for years, why get all surprised and up in arms now there's one fall guy? I wasn't there, so no I don't know. Were you there? Know everyone involved and their thoughts? Well fuck, with everyone having to cover their arses with lies what's right to believe? Lance is one guy, he didn't choreograph the whole Tour for the last ten years. Sorry, I know a lot less than most in this thread. I won't comment again unless I have some regurgitated "facts".

That's a load of crap. Did you read anything of Armstrong's behaviour in this thread or the other widely available sources, or just watch that snow job interview on Oprah?

Nah haven't read this whole thread sorry. Just one of his books(years ago), and what I've seen on telly for years. Sorry I'm not that informed. I just thought he handled himself quite respectably in the first interview. Obviously he can only say so much. I know he's a fuckwit, but he's not the only one. From a outsiders perspective, I just don't get what people expect to hear from the guy.
Lynching Lance won't make the sport clean.

 

[placebo]

Nothing personal, just don't want to spend the next ten pages of the thread rehashing the last ten.

 

[wilddemon]

I meant level as in he beat them at the same game. Not saying it's cool in any way. It's totally lame. My point was he won in the situation I'd imagine most of the top guys were in.

I see your point, and I kind of agree. But what about the guys that didn't make the tour because they weren't competitive enough and weren't doping?

 

[pharmaboy]

I see your point, and I kind of agree. But what about the guys that didn't make the tour because they weren't competitive enough and weren't doping?

they quit. what about the guys whose body was proportioned wrong for road racing?

You have to be so rediculously lucky to have the right genes for top level professional sport, then you have to have a pain tolerance above 99.5% of the population, then you have to have an OCD level of committment that forsakes family life and personal life for sporting achievment. Its no great step from there to infuse yourself with your own blood, then to start putting in extra natural substances, then stuff like EPO.

Its interesting the posts above which try and belittle anyone who tries to understand as a fanboi of Lance - I'd put it to markL and placebo that they hate Lance so much because they were naive to the goings on of drugs in sport.

Why is that cricketers, footballers etc all cheat on our television everyday, its so common its accepted and even called gamesmanship, we apply a different test to cheating thats hidden do we?

 

[No Skid Marks]

Nothing personal, just don't want to spend the next ten pages of the thread rehashing the last ten.

I can understand that. My apologies.
Just one thing. Why is Lance not in Jail for fraud, deception etc? Not being a smart arse, and sorry if it's been raised. But for such corruption of what for all accounts is actually business as well as sport, why are heavier criminal charges not laid?