Basic Resistance Training Guidelines

driftking

Wheel size expert
I'd won't ever use it again, but its probably worth a try if you one hasn't used it before - just don't buy a years worth before you work out if you can tolerate it.
I used it actually when I was like 15-16 not really knowing what it was, only like 5grams a few times so it really did nothing at all.

However after researching creatine, once I decided to take charge of whats going in my body, I opted for the no creatine, it doesn't seem to really be significant. Over the course of a year as you said it may help slightly but It wouldn't appear by much. To competition body builders its probably worth that little extra gain to them, given how hard it is for them to come by gains after 4-5 years of training or more.
For my gains ill be sticking to the non creatine option, so it might take me another month or 2 months in the gym, I'm happy with that given there is not a lot of strong evidence on its long term effects (at least I have not found any)

Where I am more interested in creatine though is for DH competition, with the constant sprints and explosive efforts. Given you can win my 0.01 of a second that small advantage might be worth loading a week before racing. Need to look into this more though.

oh an +1 for making this a sticky.
 

shirtz

Likes Bikes and Dirt
great thred, best explination ive read on the net. my excercise program rates ok when looked at from your post mywifes. cheers!
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
great thred, best explination ive read on the net. my excercise program rates ok when looked at from your post mywifes. cheers!
Thankyou,

Mostly stole the info from the lectures I give, will get around to adding in some info for the other topics when I get around to it.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
What information do you have about set styles. Particularly reverse/standard pyramids and straight sets

The only benefit I can see is the possibility of reverse pyramids starting with heaviest set on lowest fatigue. And lowering weight or reps from there.

Is there really any value for set styles? While we can argue that the overall load is the important factor we know that doing ten sets of 40% does not produce the same adaptions as 5sets of 80% even though the overall load is the same.

So with that said keepin load the same would it be better to lift a lower weight on the last set in favour of lifting more weight during the first set? (Keeping in mind the overall load to be the same)

Focusing on strength and sticking to the ranges would you see more benefits to lift;
straight sets 90, 90, 90
Or
reverse pyramids 95, 90, 85

Do certain set structures work better for certain adaptions?
I'd think for size gain it doesn't matter as long as you Hitt all your fibre types. But for strength I can see it possibly has more value?


Second is there any benefit or negative effects of drop sets when strength is the focus, I'd think activating the slow twitch fibers is a good idea but with the goal been to maximise fast twitch would incorporating drop sets force the intermediate fibers to lean more towards slow twitch capabilities?

From what I know slow and fast twitch cannot be changes however the intermediate fibers can be geared towards one side or the other.

I'd expect a periodisation is best and steering away from drop sets would be best.

I see drop set really only been a endurance/muscle building thing

If you want to PM me or email me instead thats fine.
If so ill delete this post to keep the thread simple
 
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Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
I’ve been pondering this for a few days, did some reading and have come to the conclusion there is little quality evidence to support anything but basic standard sets. So much of the following is based upon research – but my interpretation of it to fill in the holes and some discussion at work with the S&C experts.

There are a few set styles – I’ll use the terminology I’ve learnt not the broscience terms;

Changes in intensity;
Constant load / constant rep – ie 3x10@100kg
Increasing load /constant rep – ie 1x10@100kg, 1x10@110kg, 1x10@120kg
Decreasing load /constant rep – ie 1x10@120kg, 1x10@110kg, 1x10@100kg

Changes in reps;
Constant load / increasing reps – ie 1x6@100kg, 1x8@100kg, 1x10@100kg
Constant load / decreasing reps – ie 1x10@100kg, 1x8@100kg, 1x6@100kg

Or a comination of the above;
Increasing load / decreasing reps – ie 1x10@100, 1x8@110, 1x6@120
Decreasing load / increasing reps – ie 1x6@120kg, 1x8@110kg, 1x10@100kg

Some of the above approaches do target specific adaptations – specifically in very broad terms either hypertrophy (from a body building approach) to strength/power (from a sports performance approach). And a few of the above are a plain stupid approach (you'll be able to work out which ones based on what you have summarised in your previous post), although you see people in gyms doing them.

You are right on the reverse pyramid approach – it accounts for fatigue so more volume can be attained (volume being very important for hypertrophy / body building approach). But from an athlete training perspective it’s perhaps not the best approach. The primary stimulus for pure strength gains is intensity of effort based of %RM (in an unfatigued state!), so as you lower the load to account for fatigue your actually starting to minimize strength adaptation as %RM based of an unfatigued state. This approach does work for body builders, but not as effective for athletes.

I know this seems stupidly simple, but the best approach for athletes is still constant load / constant rep. The argument against this approach is that only the final few reps in each set are actually hard and the rest are a waste of time. But that’s why athletes generally (depending on current periodization) train with lower reps. So in a 4-6 rep range they are absolutely maximising tension/%RM and maximising strength gains.

Another approach I quite like is increasing load /decreasing reps – in the not very well trained this maximises strength, by removing fatigue from the equation, I use this approach with new clients so they get strong fast and keep paying me money. The problem with it long term is it burns people out and does not have the same volume as other forms of training – hence for general clients it may limit hypertrophy if all other factors are there (diet, no concurrent training, steroids…). Generally I’ll only take this approach for 4-6 weeks – no evidence for that, just seems to work.

So in conclusion,

Certain set approaches do favor certain adaptations (and some formats are a waste of time).
Constant load/rep sets are still the best for strength/performance – particularly if the rep range is kept in the lower ranges.
Drops sets are only good as a body building approach, for athletic performance not a great approach (even for endurance sports).
While a drop set will certainly maximise type IIA’s &IIB’s (great hypertrophy stimulus), via fatiguing effect – but this approach limits the neural side of adaptation – specifically twitch summation for maximum strength.

Henneman's size principle dictates that slow twitch fibers are always going to be fully active when type IIA’s &IIB’s kick in. So anything in the higher intensity ranges of %RM will be fully stimulating them.
For pure muscular endurance I’d still not use a drop set, I’d just go all out and do big reps – 25+ minimum. To stimulate slow twitch fibres in this sense you need a strong metabolic stimulus – but I still think this can only be achieved ‘effectively’ by aerobic activities as the primary slow twitch adaptation is always going to be increase in profileration and size of mitochondria and vascular neogenesis.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Thanks for that, great read.
We have established that the Intensity of %1RM is the factor for athlete training.
And you did bring up rep reduction.

Say strength training we are looking at 90% 1RM
When you are fresh though would it then be beneficial to go to 95% knock out your reps, than as you fatigue drop to 90% to hit your reps. As you said in pervious post as you lower load strength gains become less effective however we are still sticking within the strength range and giving maximum intensity each set.

90% will still produce strength adaptions but when your fresh you can aim to push that extra load and therefore increasing the intensity of effort and maximizing it throughout all sets not just the last set?

Straight sets you will fatigue on the final set at 90%
With this approach you would hope you would also fatigue on the last set at 90% but I'd expect you may only get 4 not 6 reps.

Is that a plausible concept or am I off the mark here.

I can only see the problem been if the higher initial load fatigues to the point that you cannot complete the final set. However in this situation you could lower the reps by a few as mentioned above.

So ultimately let's assume the two workouts.

90x6 90x6 90x6

Or

95x6 90x6 90x4

Would the increased 1RM be better for strength adaptions or is it better to push out the last 2reps with straight sets and get that extra 180kg overall load.

I know this seems very similar to my previous post but I'm specifically referring to the ability to remain in the adaptions reps and loads still.

On second consideration why not do 95x4 90x6 90x6
You said you were a fan of increase loads low reps, the above would ensure strength adaptions but maximise initial set energy.
 
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Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
baring in mind that this is just one aspect of programing / progression;

For strength training I’d never lower the load/intensity to accommodate fatigue but I would lower the rep range. Lowering the load compromises the strength adaptations – but as I said above somewhere this technique does work well in untrained individuals as it maximises the neural side of things. It doesn’t work great in well trained individuals as the neural side of things is more or less done in 4-6 weeks and muscular adaptations are now dominate for strength and they need a mix of both absolute intensity / loading and volume. So for well-trained people I would still go a straight set and except that the final set will have a few less reps.

Another thing to consider is the rep range we train in also causes adaptations specific to that rep range (I think I may have sent you the campos paper and maybe another on the topic?). So if you train for a given period of time at 6 reps (just for example) fatigue will less impact at that rep range – then if you upped the rep range to 10, keeping the intensity relative for each rep range, fatigue will certainly be an issue and the relative intensity will have to be lowered.

I once watched one of the AIS power lifters train down in Melbourne, he did 12 reps in 1 hour with a 5 minute rest between each set of 1 rep, this is pure strength training as each rep is 100% intensity and a 5 minute rest more or less removes fatigue. He was a really strong fellow at 1RM… would have liked to have seen his 10RM and work out if it was a normal ratio based of %RM.

So ultimately let's assume the two workouts.
90x6 90x6 90x6
Or
95x6 90x6 90x4
Would the increased 1RM be better for strength adaptions or is it better to push out the last 2reps with straight sets and get that extra 180kg overall load.
On second consideration why not do 95x4 90x6 90x6
You said you were a fan of increase loads low reps, the above would ensure strength adaptions but maximise initial set energy.
I still prefer the first method, there is more volume 1620 vs 1470, nearly 10% more volume, add that up over a year, and that's a shit load more weight lifted. And while the first way will have slightly less %1RM lifted as you need to account for fatigue up front in the final set, it's only going to be minor and still >85% + it's making training at this rep range result in less fatigue and increasing %1RM at the range.
 

B.utters

Likes Dirt
Any chance I could get some feedback for a program I've just put together?

I've tried to make this specific to ski conditioning and areas that I need to work on but I dare say it could be used for riding as well. This program will also be mixed in with a fair bit of swimming, bike riding and speed ladder work

Time Period: 6 weeks

Equipment: 8kg and 20kg kettle bells (Don't have money for any more weights or a gym membership)

Goals:
-Increase abdominal stability (primarily lateral and rotational),
-Increase leg strength

Week 1-3

Monday, Wednesday, Friday

Stretching to warm up............................ 10 minutes
Goblet squat......................................... 3x8 @ 20kg rest 2 minutes
Turkish get up....................................... 3x3 @ 20kg per side, rest 2 minutes
Single leg, one arm cross body deadlift...... 3x8 @ 20kg per side, rest 2 minutes
Single leg, one arm cross body plank row.... 3x8 @ 8kg per side, rest 2 minutes
Side plank press.................................... 3x8 @ 8kg per side, rest 2 minutes

Weeks 3-4 I plan on going to 4 sets rather than 3 for each exercise.

Any feedback would be great!
 
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Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
I was about to mutter about the 'core' focus, but then I realised the primary outcome was for skiing, so you do indeed have a reasonable rationale for your exercise selection.

The programming looks pretty good to me, only a add/change a few things, but overall I am not really criticising anything you've done - just more personal preference to exercise selection.

A warm up along the lines of box step ups or on a double or triple step height depending on how tall you are. Stretching is not a great warmup prior to resistance training and while unlikely unless you stretch really hard, may actually contribute to the chances of injury.

Also consider that in a standard sit up movement the obliques are fully active, as if both sides activate together they'll cause trunk flexion, so another exercise to perhaps consider is a supine (lying on your back) leg raise (bend at the knee and hip) in which you actively lift and push your knee towards your chest, at the same time use your hands/arms and actively attempt push the knee away. It's about the hardest abominal exercise I have ever tried and if you do one leg at a time, it will target rec. adbom and obliques nicely.

The single leg deadlift, just take note that the leg that lifts at the back, makes this exercise easier than it should be, also a great exercise for hamstring flexibility.

If the goblet squat is/becomes too easy at 20kg, try a single leg squat (almost like a lunge), this will make the most of the weights you have.

I personal change the plank row to a conventional single arm bench or bent over row, as long as you have enough weight it will still very much challenge your 'core', you could also use resistance band or theraband tied to the kettlebell as a cheap way of ramping up the loading.

I'd also do the side plank, but toss the press part out and simply do a lateral leg raise with the top leg during the plank, the AIS cyclist often do this as it's a great 'core' exercise still but strongly targets glut med.
 
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B.utters

Likes Dirt
Thanks for that MWI! I will definitely incorporate all of that into the program. Your suggestions are a lot more movement specific, especially the plank leg raise.

The focus on the 'core' is to correct a weak spot that I had all winter where my back was rounding/bending sideways through high performance turns. It makes improving very very hard when something as fundamental as stance isn't right.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
MWI,
We discussed power and strength previously but we left out power reps and rest periods.

power
load 35-40%1RM
sets ?
reps 1-5?
rest ?

workouts per week?

I'm hoping you can fill in the question marks.
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
I've just thrown in a range for each as it's not really possible to say over the net whats best for one person or another. We also use a cable actuated dynamometer so we can measure power in real time, this allows us to work out reasonably precisely on any given day sets, reps and rest periods as we can measure max power and more importantly the drop off due to acute fatigue within a set and training fatigue between sets.

load 35-40%1RM
sets 4-6 (higher set numbers due to the low rep count)
reps 3-6 (never continue into measurable fatigue)
rest 2-3 minutes (due to low rep numbers this should be more than enough)

workouts per week 2-3, maybe three if this is the only form of training for that muscle group, if also doing some standard lifts using the same muscle group 2, you just need to make sure you're fully recovered from the last session.

When one of the AIS guys is in later in the week, I'll see if I can get out of him exactly what they do... sometimes their a bit closed mouthed about this stuff.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
MWI, any chance of you expanding on this series of posts with diet related info?
Haha that will open a can of worms that one. If mwi does it that would be amazing.
It will be massive mainly because there are lots of concepts that need to be covered some of which I can see would be.

-ketonic diets/other concepts
-carbs and types
-protein and complete/incomplete
-fats good/bad/efa's
-goals, fat lose etc
-supplements and who needs them
-exercise type and length
-post/pre/inter nutrition
-common misconceptions


I guess it depends how in depth you're asking him to go, Id be very interested to read a full blown in depth thread on diet from MWI.
Id suggest you maybe put up some specific things you want addressed though.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
been training for about a year and doing my current routine for about 2 months and looking for a achange. a mate suggested this: http://www.tonyboutagy.com/2/post/2013/09/double-super-sets-an-advanced-hypertrophy-method.html

thoughts??
What are you training for mate and what does your current training look like?

MWI can confirm or deny this but I don't think supersetting the same muscle is really helpful. Your changing exercises but your not changing muscle groups Which depending on rep count might be shifting someone into endurence and slow twitch fibers.

Super sets on them own between two different exercises with different muscle groups is a great way to cut down workout time And maximize that 45min gym window (after 45min-1hour your testosterone level decline).

I didn't have a good look at that routine but it seems almost too complicated and day two seems heavy.

Squats 4x6
hack squats 4x8
Romanian deadlifts 4x10
leg press 3x12

On the same day plus a bunch of other movements. That's a lot of load and if your training is proper form and the right weight I don't know if your legs would even survive that.

More details about your current and precious training would help though there may be a simple fix rather than a new routine.
 
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shirtz

Likes Bikes and Dirt
thanks for the comments.

just training to put on weight and muscle generally. have put on 10kg in the last year and look and feel better so just keen to continue to build muscle now really.

current routine is 3 days consisting of dropsets. can detail it out if you like.
 
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