Bike specific training

[mxdame]

Does anyone know any bike specific weight/cardio workouts, I mostly ride DH & a bit of AM. I have been out of weight training for about a year now as I flicked my gym membership as they just kept bumping the cost up without any upgrades to the gym & it was getting to expensive. So I decided to put the money into some decent Olympic weight sets & bench/squat rack for home and am about to get back to it but thought I would put the question out there about any good workouts

 

[driftking]

First off and I cannot stress this enough you need to have correct form when lifting otherwise with many lifts you can do some serious damage. I also am not qualified so take this as you will.

The best bet initially is to look at functional movements, ditch the bodybuilding movements and go for function, secondly compound before isolation.

Functional compound lifts.

-Deadlifts
-squats
-bench press
-rows
-overhead presses
-clean and jerk
-clean and press
-Push ups
-pull and chin ups
-Dips
-lunges

Some functional isolation
-rotatory cuff exercises (all of them very good for shoulder injury prevention)
-single leg squats /pistol squats
-Turkish getup
-one arm press.
-lateral raises

(cant think of more now but there are a few)

I also really like planks for core work, although many of the lifts will hit it anyway.

As we move to bike specific you look at doing exercises with split stance (as you would stand on pedals) and exercises that really emphasize hip mobility and movement.

As for sets and reps, this is completely dependent on your goal strength, power, endurance, size.

I will also urge you to implement a stretching routine. Working out even with full range of motion can really tighten you up and many of the lifts rely on flexibility. Hip flexor's are a crucial and often over looked area that needs to be stretched well.

Cardio
Depends on your goal again.

I may add some more later on.

 

[mxdame]

I agree with form 100% & have weight trained on & off for over 15 years, but have mainly focused on power/heavy lifting. Now that I have had about a year off training (my longest time off) & want to start from the ground up again & want to stay away from my usual heavy/weight low rep training & focus more on less weigh high rep & work a lot more on core exercises. Cardio is pretty sorted as I ride about 4 times a week & do road runs & boxing (bag work) to mix it up. I tried this year to just ride as my main for of exercise but this has not helped as I will still put on weight, I need the weight training to fire my metabolism so then the cardio can burn the fat, as my body just thinks the bike riding is the norm now & dose not look at it like exercise.

 

[driftking]

I agree with form 100% & have weight trained on & off for over 15 years, but have mainly focused on power/heavy lifting. Now that I have had about a year off training (my longest time off) & want to start from the ground up again & want to stay away from my usual heavy/weight low rep training & focus more on less weigh high rep & work a lot more on core exercises. Cardio is pretty sorted as I ride about 4 times a week & do road runs & boxing (bag work) to mix it up. I tried this year to just ride as my main for of exercise but this has not helped as I will still put on weight, I need the weight training to fire my metabolism so then the cardio can burn the fat, as my body just thinks the bike riding is the norm now & dose not look at it like exercise.

Can i ask what the thought behind that is?

What is your end goal what are you wanting to improve exactly?
Is it just to drop some weight.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

want to stay away from my usual heavy/weight low rep training

Waste of time doing resistance training unless the load is heavy and if the load is heavy the reps must by default be low. Light loads and high reps do not adapt a muscle in any meaningful way.

& work a lot more on core exercises.

Core stability/strength has been shown repeatedly to be a waste of time for both sports performance, functional ability and preventing and treating asymptomatic lower back pain. Do core work if it makes you happy, but you will be wasting your time when you could be doing something that is actual useful.

I need the weight training to fire my metabolism so then the cardio can burn the fat

It doesn't work that way, they are two completely separate metabolic pathways that in the end can achieve the same thing, one anaerobic and one aerobic. Resistance training WITH high loads and low reps will stimulate increased muscle mass and your resting metabolism will go up accordingly. Endurance training tends to consume a far degree of fat, but it must be long duration to have any significant effect. Doing both as you highlighted is the best approach.

as my body just thinks the bike riding is the norm now & dose not look at it like exercise.

No, bodies never get accustomed to a given exercise, you might get more efficient at the skill of riding, but the actual energy expenditure is relatively the same if you intensity stays at a given % of you max effort. The concept of a regular exercise becoming less effective is a myth pushed by personal trainers and the fitness industry. If you feel riding isn't stressing your body, metabolism is simply means you are not going hard enough or long enough - usually a mix of both.

I tried this year to just ride as my main for of exercise but this has not helped as I will still put on weight

Because you energy intake was exceeding your energy expenditure, eat less and eat better or you need to drastically increase energy output. Time wise focusing on diet is more achievable.

 

[mxdame]

The goal is to drop weight & tone up. I went from 125kg to 92kg & am now at 100kg & think my ideal weight would be around 85-90kg.

 

[TKITEZ]

basic 5x5 style program + calculate your macros and hit them every day, start out 10% under your maintenance and go from there.

 

[mxdame]

I do eat healthy & consume between 1500-2000 calories a day & rides I normally burn 1000-2000 cals. I do believe the key is somewhere in my diet & am planing on seeing a dietitian.

 

[driftking]

The goal is to drop weight & tone up. I went from 125kg to 92kg & am now at 100kg & think my ideal weight would be around 85-90kg.

basic weights will help maintain your muscle. Cardio will help you drop the fat.

basic 5x5 style program + calculate your macros and hit them every day, start out 10% under your maintenance and go from there.

5x5 (SL) 5x3 (SS) style routines are directed a building strength and size primarily. Although the basic concept of simple compound done effectively is probably a good concept to follow.

Waste of time doing resistance training unless the load is heavy and if the load is heavy the reps must by default be low. Light loads and high reps do not adapt a muscle in any meaningful way.

Waste of time? Speed training is useful at low 1RM percentages. Although speed is an adaption not of the muscle but the MUR and CNS. For riding specific training its pretty useful. Also what about people who train low load but high intensity it clearly improves endurance? rowing and canoeing is highly endurance focused and they don't need to use high weight. low load but high intensity is also seen in gymnastics and they are massive.



Core stability/strength has been shown repeatedly to be a waste of time for both sports performance, functional ability and preventing and treating asymptomatic lower back pain. Do core work if it makes you happy, but you will be wasting your time when you could be doing something that is actual useful.

Core stability from what I have gathered from your previous posts too, is that its not a waste of time per say but the specific training of that area is a waste, however the training it revives from other movements ie deadlifts is beneficial. Many people have a reduction in back pain as their muscle improve they put less load on the spine for movements. Keeping in mind people don't always lift as they should, so they can shift that weight to the spine so the more support they have the less directly the spine is loaded. While most of this is anecdotal.

It doesn't work that way, they are two completely separate metabolic pathways that in the end can achieve the same thing, one anaerobic and one aerobic. Resistance training WITH high loads and low reps will stimulate increased muscle mass and your resting metabolism will go up accordingly. Endurance training tends to consume a far degree of fat, but it must be long duration to have any significant effect. Doing both as you highlighted is the best approach.

+1

No, bodies never get accustomed to a given exercise, you might get more efficient at the skill of riding, but the actual energy expenditure is relatively the same if you intensity stays at a given % of you max effort. The concept of a regular exercise becoming less effective is a myth pushed by personal trainers and the fitness industry. If you feel riding isn't stressing your body, metabolism is simply means you are not going hard enough or long enough - usually a mix of both.

+1, you are becoming efficient so your level of effort it lower for your given ride. You have two options.
1.Increase the intensity of the workout.
2.increase the time of the workout.

Because you energy intake was exceeding your energy expenditure, eat less and eat better or you need to drastically increase energy output. Time wise focusing on diet is more achievable.

+1 again.

good stuff as per usual MWI.

 

[Locknatious]

Core stability/strength has been shown repeatedly to be a waste of time for both sports performance, functional ability and preventing and treating asymptomatic lower back pain. Do core work if it makes you happy, but you will be wasting your time.

I'm just a bit curious on how you came up with the conclusion that core stability/strength is a waste of time, and were it is repeatedly "shown".

And I know for a fact from my wife doing core stability/strength training with a physio (on recommendation from a neurosurgeon) that it is better for functional ability and treating lower back pain. (she has less pain after the sessions)

by the way, my wife needs disc replacement surgery of the L4/5 S1 disc.

so its safe to say its NOT a waste of time...

 

[my02]

Core stability/strength has been shown repeatedly to be a waste of time for both sports performance, functional ability and preventing and treating asymptomatic lower back pain. Do core work if it makes you happy, but you will be wasting your time when you could be doing something that is actual useful.

Don't supposed you have a few papers you could point my way? I'd like to show this to my physio.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

I'm just a bit curious on how you came up with the conclusion that core stability/strength is a waste of time, and were it is repeatedly "shown".

And I know for a fact from my wife doing core stability/strength training with a physio (on recommendation from a neurosurgeon) that it is better for functional ability and treating lower back pain. (she has less pain after the sessions)

by the way, my wife needs disc replacement surgery of the L4/5 S1 disc.

so its safe to say its NOT a waste of time...

Well I certainly don't doubt the fact that your wife is doing core stability, but that does not mean its safe to say it is worth her time at all over other forms of training and rehab.

Core stability training more often than not will focus on co contraction of the trunk musculature, this creates greater intervebral disc pressure, for many people this does not help symptoms. Secondly medically she would get a reduction in symptoms regardless of seeing a physio, as the body is quite amazing at healing it's self.

Thirdly, peer reviewed scientific evidence, not my opinion, but evidence from some fairly reputable researchers is showing that is not a particularly efficacious approach and actually may be detrimental.

Maybe you should ask your wife's physio for their evidence and rationale, I think you might find it lacking, the average physio has a bachelors degree, they aren't exactly trained to understand something as complex as the vertebral column (very few people are) or have the ability to disseminate complex medical research. All the best for her surgery, L5/S1 replacements can be nasty.

The myth of core stability.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=the+myth+of+core+stability
Despite a decade of extensive research in this area, it is difficult to see what contribution CS had to the understanding and care of patients suffering from back pain

Systematic review of core muscle activity during physical fitness exercises
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23542879
The available evidence suggests that strength and conditioning specialists should focus on implementing multijoint free weight exercises, rather than core-specific exercises, to adequately train the core muscles in their athletes and clients.

A meta-analysis of core stability exercise versus general exercise for chronic low back pain.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23284879
Compared to general exercise, core stability exercise is more effective in decreasing pain and may improve physical function in patients with chronic LBP in the short term. However, no significant long-term differences in pain severity were observed between patients who engaged in core stability exercise versus those who engaged in general exercise.

Core stability exercises in individuals with and without chronic nonspecific low back pain.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22080309
The widespread use of abdominal bracing in clinical practice, whether it be for patients with LBP or healthy individuals, may not be justified unless symptoms of spinal instability are identified.

Acute effect of labile surfaces during core stability exercises in people with and without low back pain.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20801670
Individuals with LBP exhibited adaptive trunk muscle activity levels while maintaining similar levels of balance and lumbar movement to healthy controls. Since research suggests no one mode of exercise is more beneficial in LBP rehabilitation, the practicality and safety of labile surfaces for LBP exercise rehabilitation must be questioned from this study.

If you'd like a read of my personal and educated opinion... it's more performance orientated than clinical.
http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?246702-Core-Stability-a-neuroscience-approach

Don't supposed you have a few papers you could point my way? I'd like to show this to my physio.

Show them the meta analysis and the systematic review, they tally up to just over 200 studies included, with many discarded due to lack of quality. The results are of these are reasonably robust.

 

[faulko]

I'm just a bit curious on how you came up with the conclusion that core stability/strength is a waste of time, and were it is repeatedly "shown".

And I know for a fact from my wife doing core stability/strength training with a physio (on recommendation from a neurosurgeon) that it is better for functional ability and treating lower back pain. (she has less pain after the sessions)

by the way, my wife needs disc replacement surgery of the L4/5 S1 disc.

so its safe to say its NOT a waste of time...

I agree as im in the this process myself although the logic is, it only works if your core was weak in the first place.

General healthy individuals usually dont have a weak trunk/core and hence core strength/conditioning doesn't effect or aid these folks much.

As for specific bike training, just ride. Only my worthless opinion.

Vary your loads (gears) and routes and just ride.

 

[my02]

Thank you MWI.

I don't suppose you know of suitable reading for SIJ pain? I'm not at super academic level, but have a better understanding than the average Joe.

 

[HamboCairns]

I'm doing some core exercises to get to a certain level but I understand that you plateu after a while so you'd want to switch to free weights.

I'm about to start on some compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, rows and pull ups for my own fitness but I think that riding is probably the best way to develop cycling related muscles as well as improve one's fitness.

 

[mxdame]

This topic has kind of skewed off course (but all still valuable info & helpful) & I am more interested in workouts or specific exercises used by people to help them build strength in areas needed in MTB or MX to aid in riding or injury prevention. Nutrition & fitness is not a 1 size fits all method, & each person needs to fine tune what works best for them. I am just in the process of working out some workouts now that I can use with my equipment at home (free weights) now that I dont have access to a fully stocked gym with endless equipment & machines. I know nothing beat saddle time for bike fitness & for the most part I am getting plenty of that (4-5 rides a week), its now time to add some weights & cardio (other than on the bike) to the mix, as riding alone is not building muscle (obviously) & not moving much weight (even on a calorie controlled diet). I also always use a HRM so I know what cals I am using too.
I know ryno power gym has gone into this specific area of training.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/A-Look-at-One-of-Aaron-Gwins-Workouts-at-Rynos-Gym-video-2013.html

 

[Mywifesirrational]

It's rotorburn, everything gets off topic on here!

You don't need to do anything fancy, as long as you have enough weights to make the exercises hard.

Drifts list is pretty spot on, only things I might do a little differently is not do the shoulder press type movements, not particularly bike specific, unless you have roof racks? unless you've got excellent ability the cleans are quite complex.

-Deadlifts
-squats
-bench press
-rows
-overhead presses
-clean and jerk
-clean and press
-Push ups
-pull and chin ups
-Dips
-lunges

Some functional isolation
-rotatory cuff exercises (all of them very good for shoulder injury prevention)
-single leg squats /pistol squats
-Turkish getup
-one arm press.
-lateral raises

Based these of resistance training literature for competitive cyclist... it's certainly not an exhaustive list of options.

Example program for cycling – to improve performance. based off the above literature.

Half squat – there is no need to go much below 90 degrees as this ROM is specific to the ROM in a pedal stroke.
Leg press unilateral/single leg – this is specific to the unilateral extension found in cycling.
Hip flexion, on a roman bench, keep the back straight and only move from the hips.
Calf raises (standing) – while seated probably mimics cycling better, seated only activates soleus, while standing is effective for both soleus and gastroc.

3x10 reps, twice per week, tapered down to 4-5x6 reps twice per week over a 12-16 week period. This is designed to peak for a specific competition.

This is based off the studies linked, so it is for pure cycling, for MTB – particularly AM/DH riding, I would highly advocate the following:

Deadlift
Bench press
Rows (bent over/seated/one arm…)
If an advanced lifted - Power cleans

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?251309-Basic-Resistance-Training-Guidelines

 

[rsquared]

MWI - these exercises all appear to be targeting a strength phase, what's the best approach in terms of periodised training between strength, power, endurance?

I would think you would build your base/endurance, then work strength, power, strength, power etc in periods of 8-10weeks (tapered around key events obviously). Is this correct?

Muscular endurance and power would both be important for mountain biking.

 

[rsquared]

Also, even though shoulder press movements may not be specific to cycling technique, I'd definitely recommend incorporating them into any program purely to provide shoulder joint strength/stability for injury prevention in crashes etc.

 

[driftking]

This topic has kind of skewed off course (but all still valuable info & helpful) & I am more interested in workouts or specific exercises used by people to help them build strength in areas needed in MTB or MX to aid in riding or injury prevention. Nutrition & fitness is not a 1 size fits all method, & each person needs to fine tune what works best for them. I am just in the process of working out some workouts now that I can use with my equipment at home (free weights) now that I dont have access to a fully stocked gym with endless equipment & machines. I know nothing beat saddle time for bike fitness & for the most part I am getting plenty of that (4-5 rides a week), its now time to add some weights & cardio (other than on the bike) to the mix, as riding alone is not building muscle (obviously) & not moving much weight (even on a calorie controlled diet). I also always use a HRM so I know what cals I am using too.
I know ryno power gym has gone into this specific area of training.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/A-Look-at-One-of-Aaron-Gwins-Workouts-at-Rynos-Gym-video-2013.html

Part of the reason you are not building muscle is obviously you are not loading the body enough just riding, as you know. However you mentioned earlier you are trying to drop weight. Can you build muscle and drop fat yes but its complex. losing fat and building muscle requires two different process, lossing fat requires catabolism to be dominate and building muscle require the body to be anabolic dominate.

Technically the body isanabolic and catabolic at the same time because after all the body needs to break down things to get energy we are constantly breaking down and building things.
However when we talk about been anabolic or catabolic we are usually referring to the dominance of one or other other depending what you are giving the body.

If your goal is to drop fat you want to do weight training to maintain the muscle while dropping fat. Once you drop the fat than you can look at increasing muscle, or the other option which tends to be the normal is to build muscle first as you will inevitably gain some fat.
You can definitely increase lean body mass when you drop fat its just a much more specific and generally harder task than focusing on adding muscle than cutting fat later.

Contrary to what bodybuilding forums will say meal timing is still relevant, many will say this myth has been disproved and to an extent it may have but, the body still has digestion times and rate of absorption along with stores and usable energy.

MWI - these exercises all appear to be targeting a strength phase, what's the best approach in terms of periodised training between strength, power, endurance?

I would think you would build your base/endurance, then work strength, power, strength, power etc in periods of 8-10weeks (tapered around key events obviously). Is this correct?

Muscular endurance and power would both be important for mountain biking.

While this was directed at MWI ill throw my 2cents in.

Whether or not you in a strength, power or endurance phase comes down to your reps, sets and load.
strength is going to be done before power primarily as speed power uses about 40% of your 1RM. So the obvious is maximizing strength allows you to use more load for power workouts.

The routine MWI gave 5-6 reps sits very much towards strength based workouts, pure strength tends to be lower about 1-3 reps.
You would usually start power workout as a build up to the event as you said. I think its only a small 4-6 week period for power. MWI?