Carrying 4 bikes- how do you?
- Thread starter swaz
- Start date
gcouyant
Farkin Advertiser
Good grief no. How do you make that statement when the two products are so different? And we're having this discussion 11 years on? If you're going to hate iSi delivering exactly what people ask for then choose good reason to.
John U
MTB Precision
G'Day George. In the pics (back of Prado) you posted you seem to have a fairly well sorted number plate/lights set up for attachment to the back of the rack. I have not yet been able to find this on your site. Was this a custom job? Do you make and supply these? Could you please post a link if so. I think I might've seen something in the available extras drop down but not much more than that.
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
I have an Isi 2 and a 4, both off road.
For 4 bikes, I think in retrospect I'd get roof racks for 2 bikes and just run a 2x ISI on the rear. Mainly because 4 bikes is rare, 2 is really common, and the 4 bike carrier is pretty heavy and really a thing for a male, my wife won't tackle it, but she'll happily fit the 2 X one.
Edit, keep in mind I haven't tried the modular version - who knows , maybe I'll sell what I have and get the modular one
For 4 bikes, I think in retrospect I'd get roof racks for 2 bikes and just run a 2x ISI on the rear. Mainly because 4 bikes is rare, 2 is really common, and the 4 bike carrier is pretty heavy and really a thing for a male, my wife won't tackle it, but she'll happily fit the 2 X one.
Edit, keep in mind I haven't tried the modular version - who knows , maybe I'll sell what I have and get the modular one
Knuckles
Lives under a bridge
If you look at both, they are different designs of the same concept. By your logic, every bicycle, car, oven, computer, smart phone (well okay, maybe these), lunchbox, BBQ, thermos, aircraft, pen, etc, since the very first one is a copyright infringement.
Mrlinderman
Likes Dirt
come on kids, don't make me stop this bus....
play nice
play nice
gcouyant
Farkin Advertiser
There are so many different brands of light boards out there so what we do instead is to make it easy for iSi customers to fit any one of those on the back of the carrier. Some hang them off the rear wheel support beam and others use a pair of our licence plate holders to bolt the light boards to. In Europe where we export a good number of Extreme Duty and 4x4x4 off-road carriers, light boards are mandatory regardless of whether lights are visible through the bicycle wheels. It also allows iSi bicycle carrier customers to fit low cost light boards for highway use.
Just a word of warning though. If you do fit lights then the whole light assembly must comply with the relevant state's transport regulations. Fitting non compliant lights is regularly policed.
Plenty of different examples of lights on the iSi Adventurers web page: http://www.isi-carriers.com/customers/isi-bicycle-carrier-customers.html
Hope that helps.
Ideate
Senior Member
It's a simple question, that I don't know the answer to.
From this quote, I take it that ISI designed this concept before gripsport?.. or not? What is it?
I feel like I'm at work here talking to 14 year olds about a technicality of some bullshit topic that is clearly something... or not.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter but I'm interested to see where this wheel holding concept, as you call it, originated from.
gcouyant
Farkin Advertiser
I first used a loop wheel support cradle on a bicycle carrier I built for personal use in 1979. I reckon a hoop goes back to the 1800s. It's not rocket science.
Ideate
Senior Member
Have you got a hoop tree that goes back that far? That'd be genuinely cool to look at.
So that's confirmation then.. You used it before Gripsport. The local timeline starts at '79 (but you started selling in 2008?), so Gripsport must have come across yours while researching 1800's hoop cradles in 2008 and said.. fuck yeah... Lets make a simpler non-4x4 version for everyone else. Then everyone lived happily ever after.
Sounds like a boring movie.
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
Quote myself given I'm on the topic still (gotta be a first for everything)
Just packed up 4 bikes - took a solid 20min to load 4 bikes of varying sizes (ie including 20" kids bike), bikes with Spd s and 2 with flats. Flats are a PITA, as are kids bikes with wide Q factor cranks and flat pedals. (And I may have sworn 5 or 6 times in that 20min)
4 similar sized bikes are a 5 minute job, especially with spds. The last pair of verticals have to be taken off to get the third bike on - which is a 2 minute job, but the easiest way. This process is going to be a pain in any carrier because of the legal length of the things - the bikes have to be close to be legal.
So, good for 4 mates on a day out ride, good for a family for a holiday or weekend away, not good for a family to take them 30min away, unless you do it all the time and you've spent an hour figuring out the exact best configuration for fitting them the easiest - there are quite a lot of configuration choices to make, after 4 years occasional use I haven't got a system to choose best configuration except trial and error.
The earliest designs used tanned hoop snakes. This is why there was a drop in hoop snake attacks in the early 19th century and why drop bear assaults increased at the same time since they compete for the same sources of food.
gcouyant
Farkin Advertiser
So, back to helping answer genuine questions and comment.
The height position of each wheel support cradle assists with packaging them all together too.
The horizontal and vertical configurations on the wheel cradles adds another level of adjustment that is foreign to most operators that come from other brand carriers.
I find the easiest is to begin with alternating left and right orientation of bikes and use the vertical support post closest to the saddle side of the top tube. It also helps to have the front wheel support cradle on the high position and the rear wheel support cradle on the low position.
If you look carefully at this one below, you'll see front high and rear low:
More photos here: http://www.isi-carriers.com/customers/zc/subaru-suv-rack.html
Same with this one here: Front high and rear low on each bicycle.
In this example, both bikes on the one vertical frame support post as well. With each post held rigidly in place with two corner clamp screws, the post supports left and right as well as fore and aft and you don't need to wrench down on the frame support cradles to keep it all together. Nice and gentle is perfect.
Hope that helps.
I think you nailed it there Pharma. With all of the adjustments available plus bike order, plus direction for each bike, it's sometimes like a big game of tetris. When it's all sorted then it's dead easy to deploy the bikes - which is what the product is designed to do. On the carriers that we use at home I have the wheel support tubes marked with the positions of each bike to speed up swapping it all around. That really helps.
The height position of each wheel support cradle assists with packaging them all together too.
The horizontal and vertical configurations on the wheel cradles adds another level of adjustment that is foreign to most operators that come from other brand carriers.
I find the easiest is to begin with alternating left and right orientation of bikes and use the vertical support post closest to the saddle side of the top tube. It also helps to have the front wheel support cradle on the high position and the rear wheel support cradle on the low position.
If you look carefully at this one below, you'll see front high and rear low:
More photos here: http://www.isi-carriers.com/customers/zc/subaru-suv-rack.html
Same with this one here: Front high and rear low on each bicycle.
In this example, both bikes on the one vertical frame support post as well. With each post held rigidly in place with two corner clamp screws, the post supports left and right as well as fore and aft and you don't need to wrench down on the frame support cradles to keep it all together. Nice and gentle is perfect.
Hope that helps.
freddofrog
Likes Dirt
Just get an old school steel 2 prong bike rack for the tow ball . Cost about $20. Fits any shape frame. I've had the new fancy stuff but gone back to basics as it fits any size frame, even with old shape top tubes.
2 on the back and 2 bikes on the roof. Works fine for us 2+2
2 on the back and 2 bikes on the roof. Works fine for us 2+2
gcouyant
Farkin Advertiser
Absolutely YES Swaz. And for good reason, we do it differently to the rest of the industry in order to deliver greater flexibility and ease of use again.
Like you, what many people have been asking for is to begin with an extreme duty two bicycle carrier with a 40-degree departure angle and to then have the option sometime in the future of expanding to the 4x4x4 off-road carrier for four bicycles.
In response to this we developed the Extreme Duty 4x4x2 off-road carrier and the 4x4x4 off-road carrier expansion pack. We’re going to have to get this up on the web site soon but let’s see if I can explain it here.
Firstly, we don’t break the four bike carrier in half and sell it in bits. That’s what is commonly seen in the bicycle carrier industry but our customers place their trust in us to deliver a better and more convenient solution.
With four (and more) bicycle carriers, we need to maintain the structural integrity of the main beam effectively. I’ve never been a fan of joiner systems that do nothing but add weight, complexity and a source of hassle. Moreover, given the target dynamic operational parameters for the iSi brand of bicycle carriers, we can do away with the added mass of the internal bracing required to meet those targets.
We specify 25 degrees for the 4x4x4 because it is appropriate to position all of the bicycles well behind the vehicle - but not too high. With two bicycles though, the load is tight to the rear of the car so we can configure the much steeper departure angle and improved ground clearance. Hence the Extreme Duty 40 degree departure angle.
An example of the 40 degree departure angle and both bikes nice and tight to the rear of the car – and plenty of clearance.
When you have the kids or friends that want to come along, expand to the 4x4x4 off-road carrier and the bicycles remain nice and tight to the rear and again protected behind the car. Takes a minute to swap so you don’t go looking for excuses.
Now here is the stellar bit.
Since many of our customers own off-highway caravans or camper trailers, with the 2+2 configurations above, they can use *both* main beams to spread the load front and rear on the trailer for the best towing dynamics.
The iSi brand of bicycle carrier is one of the only examples on the market that is rated for fitment to the rear of an off-road camper trailer. You get the bikes off the roof and use them during the journey and after you reach camp - swap either carrier to the car and explore further.
Swaz, that’s a brief explanation of the two bicycle carrier and the expansion pack with the benefits this solution delivers in addition to the features and benefits of an iSi bicycle carrier. The ability to treat the carrier and expansion pack as two separate carriers is pure gold if you own a trailer.
Hope that thoroughly answers your question.
swaz
Likes Bikes and Dirt
That seems to be a theme with all carriers that are more than 2. Kids bikes on the roof might have to be a serious, yes expensive, option
swaz
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Checked out a few racks at the trail head yesterday and got some opinions.
2x seems to be the quickest to load an unload which is important to me. the 3 bike carriers seem to be a PITA to actually have 3 bikes loaded onto at the same time. So now I am on the trail of a 2x carrier and two roof rack mounts to carry the kids bikes.
2x seems to be the quickest to load an unload which is important to me. the 3 bike carriers seem to be a PITA to actually have 3 bikes loaded onto at the same time. So now I am on the trail of a 2x carrier and two roof rack mounts to carry the kids bikes.
John U
MTB Precision
Sounds like a good option. I may end up copying you given I've already got 4 racks for the roof. The extra height on the new car makes it a bit dangerous getting the bikes up there. It's only a matter of time before a bike falls one way or the other.
I really want to see one in the flesh before committing though.
swaz
Likes Bikes and Dirt
I have a high car and it's a pain to get a bike up there but doable and I really only want the small 20-24" bikes up there and that will be a very occasional trip.
If towing the trailer didn't make the little 2.5ltr petrol engine in my SUV more of a pig I would just modify that!