Coffee Drinkers Anonymous

[pink poodle]

caramel and chocolate are, more often than not, roast characteristics and not coffee characteristics.

This I know. I lived around the corner from a reasonable roaster for a few years and he liked to talk and pour coffee. I am not in the ha bit of being rude...sadly business skills weren't his strength.

On the "double rizzzzz" fad...so many cafes currently claiming this and just pouring 2 short espresso shots. Which makes getting a double shot latte for the train a difficult situation, and a real sized coffee as a take away just seems silly (finished and savoured in 7 steps). I haven't bee served (what I would call a ristretto) for a long time. The 4 baristas I trusted all got adult jobs. No body else is able to deliver the thick syrup I have come to like.

The weighing option has my attention. I usually clown around for 4-6 shots each time I get new beans working out grind, rate, length etc. This might be an interesting experiment. Will be a bit Dodge as my scales are old school. But close enough for the house.

 

[Mattydv]

I wouldn't call his coffee pointy end though. If it doesn't have milk he is out of his depth.

What has led you to this conclusion?
If it's a comment on raw product, you're effectively saying that (what I would consider) Australia's best roasters aren't themselves producing a good product.
If it's a comment on his knowledge and skill, I would say that you are making a judgement on something you seem to have little enough knowledge yourself to make that call. I can't comment on consistency as I have never experienced him as an unknowing member of the public, but he's the only person in town that weighs everything in and out...

Interesting, I'm planning a trip to the states in April/May and maybe hooking up a trip to Colombia at the end. I think people have become too obsessed with extraction yield numbers and not focusing enough on taste. You can hit any numbers you want but if it doesnt taste very good then it's not worth it. Did you comment or complain about the coffee that you were served? If you were to complain, how would you go about it? Do you think it was the best representation of their coffee?

I commented at Ritual and Blue Bottle, and tried to engage in a conversation, but was largely dismissed. In saying that though I didn't identify myself as different from Joe Citizen, so that was my fault. Everywhere was somewhat busy, and I am never comfortable with outright complaining...
Do I think it was the best representation of product? No, not really.
Do I think it was an accurate representation of the product they regularly produce? Yes.

 

[pink poodle]

What has led you to this conclusion?
If it's a comment on raw product, you're effectively saying that (what I would consider) Australia's best roasters aren't themselves producing a good product.
If it's a comment on his knowledge and skill, I would say that you are making a judgement on something you seem to have little enough knowledge yourself to make that call. I can't comment on consistency as I have never experienced him as an unknowing member of the public, but he's the only person in town that weighs everything in and out...

i think i understand you now.... my conclusion is based on the one thing that matters - his end product. if that doesn't meet a set standard, it doesn't matter how much he knows about coffee, that he can juggle 3 coffee beans in 1 hand, or how good his supplies are. sadly (as with too many cafes) the less milk that is in your cup, the worse the coffee is. sure there are plenty of factors that come into this and personal taste being one of them, but it really shouldn't be too hard to produce an espresso or macchiato that has flavour. i don't consider bland to be a flavour. i haven't had the fortune to try Pony (i think it is) coffee outside of this cafe.

i have given him plenty of chances, and will give plenty more i am sure after all i can see him from my office. his fortunate that despite his little section of the town being littered with cafes, there are no alternatives. while they specialise in consistently delivering coffee that tastes like a dirt filtered through socks, he occasionally delivers sensational.

if he weighs his coffee while serving i have not witnessed it. what he does when his friends are in store out of hours i can not vouch for. but im glad he doesn't when i am in there as time does not seem to apply inside his shop. yet given he is in the middle of the business district it would be wise to adopt some sense of urgency. most professionals don't want to be standing around for 10 minutes waiting for a coffee.

i hope he does well and excels in his business. if any locals (or visitors) are reading this they should definitely drop in when he is open and grab a coffee. it is certainly worth the small amount of coins he will take from you. this is only meant to be a critical review of the finer details of coffee service. and you certainly wont get anything better nearby.

 

[mcrae]

The weighing option has my attention. I usually clown around for 4-6 shots each time I get new beans working out grind, rate, length etc. This might be an interesting experiment. Will be a bit Dodge as my scales are old school. But close enough for the house.

get a set of cheap pockeet scales via ebay or spend a couple of bucks on a set from market lane. you can use the pocket scales on the driptray for your cups. use the bigger old scales and tare out your portafilter, dose, check weight, tamp. it will make your dialling in process A LOT easier. and you will be surprised how little you will have to change your grind....

I commented at Ritual and Blue Bottle, and tried to engage in a conversation, but was largely dismissed. In saying that though I didn't identify myself as different from Joe Citizen, so that was my fault. Everywhere was somewhat busy, and I am never comfortable with outright complaining...
Do I think it was the best representation of product? No, not really.
Do I think it was an accurate representation of the product they regularly produce? Yes.

it's a conversation that I've had a couple of times with my boss. I'd assume you approached them rationally and with the right attitude and am surprised that they didn't try harder to engage in a conversation about why something is a certain way or why something tastes the way it should or shouldn't. Unfortunately, the simple fact of the matter is that a lot of people don't know how to complain properly, and those who do complain, often don't approach it the right way.

eg. Customer to me "You need to brew your moccamaster longer next time"
Customer pointing at one of my staff and mouthing the words "SLOW" to me.

Neither of these examples were well thought out, nor well executed, but if they felt as if there was an issue with what I or some of my staff were doing then it's my responsibility to address their issues. unfortunately. (not saying you were the same as these people either matt)

What did you think was the issue with their coffee/service? was it too strong, not strong enough? boring atmosphere?

 

[Mattydv]

if he weighs his coffee while serving i have not witnessed it.

I haven't been in since mid October as I've been in Canada but when I left he was using the Mahlkönig for everything, effectively making it impossible not to weigh out every shot. Is he not still doing this?

Also, what machine are you using? You'll be doing well to get good espresso out of almost all domestic machines anyway, which makes good scales a must in my opinion as you've got such a big gap to make up for...

What did you think was the issue with their coffee/service? was it too strong, not strong enough? boring atmosphere?

The only issue I had with Ritual was their product. The two espresso's I had were both abusively over extracted. Whether this was because they were trying to chase down numbers or not I can't comment as I didn't ask, but it was genuinely unenjoyable to drink. Everywhere was using naked portafilters too if I remember correctly, which was another weird thing. But the service was reasonable and the atmosphere (like all places in the Mission) was pretty cool.

 

[pharmaboy]

What's with the weighing of beans? At very best, you are half a bean over or under, whereas filling a portafilter tapping consistent number of times and scraping should get you plus minus a tenth of gram.

I always pour to the look anyway,if it's 40 seconds or50 seconds seems immaterial to the taste, but tiger stripes versus blonding versus thinning makes subtle differences . ( I do stick with the same roaster though - glee mattydv)

 

[scblack]

I see in the Financial Review that Aaron Cook of Bluestone Lane coffee shops has opened up a couple of successful coffee shops in New York.

How do the Bluestone Lane shops in Melbourne rate?


***Edit. I read the story wrong, he has just taken Melbourne coffee culture to NY, does not have any in Melbourne.

 

[mcrae]

What's with the weighing of beans? At very best, you are half a bean over or under, whereas filling a portafilter tapping consistent number of times and scraping should get you plus minus a tenth of gram.

I always pour to the look anyway,if it's 40 seconds or50 seconds seems immaterial to the taste, but tiger stripes versus blonding versus thinning makes subtle differences . ( I do stick with the same roaster though - glee mattydv)

For consistency of product and to get an accurate measurement of your extractions to provide useful feedback to our roaster. Correlating the numbers with what you taste allows you to know whether it is your extraction behind the bar or a fault with the roast or the green coffee. Without the numbers the coffee could taste like shit but you wouldn't know why, with the numbers you can work effectively in less steps to achieve a better tasting cup. less wastage, better coffee more regularly. We dial in to taste and then use a refractometer to check our extractions and then provide feedback to the roaster. If I were a cafe owner and paying for the coffee I was using, I would want to know exactly what the coffee was doing and why it was doing it in a shorter amount of time. If my coffee tasted shit I'd want to know that it wasn't my fault rather than fucking around with watching how it looks and making a decision on that, whilst also minimizing wastage. A mazzer robur e can have a swing of about 2 grams either side of your desired dose which has a huge effect on the way that your coffee tastes.

Dosing tools can work but are inconsistent over several people. If you have multiple people working behind the bar its a lot easier to say, or have written up somewhere "21 in, 45 out, 24 seconds" than "WELL IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD, I TIGHTENED IT UP A BIT A WHILE AGO, TAP 4 TIMES NO MORE NO LESS, I DUNNO JUST FEEL IT BRO."

The only issue I had with Ritual was their product. The two espresso's I had were both abusively over extracted. Whether this was because they were trying to chase down numbers or not I can't comment as I didn't ask, but it was genuinely unenjoyable to drink. Everywhere was using naked portafilters too if I remember correctly, which was another weird thing. But the service was reasonable and the atmosphere (like all places in the Mission) was pretty cool.

maybe it takes some warming up to... weird they're using nakeds though, thought that had well and truly died off 3 years ago...

 

[pink poodle]

@mcrae - machine @ home is a jura auto. So good to just know the coffee will be there when I want it.

Nakeds seem to be making a come back. In today's ever changing recyclingretro focused world 3 years is long enough ago to be pretty old school.

 

[geoff_tewierik]

My wife returned back to work this week and is missing her morning coffee in the rush to get out the door.

Anyone have a suggestion for a good quality travel mug that I can send her off to work with? Doesn't need massive volume.

 

[mcrae]

My wife returned back to work this week and is missing her morning coffee in the rush to get out the door.

Anyone have a suggestion for a good quality travel mug that I can send her off to work with? Doesn't need massive volume.

(shrugs) anything that isnt plastic or metal. one of my customers brings in a ultimate frizbee trophy glass with a keep cup sleeve on it.

Keep cup is releasing a glass cup soon so id just hang tight for that.

 

[vtwiz]

Keep cup is releasing a glass cup soon so id just hang tight for that.

It's already out.

 

[geoff_tewierik]

Thanks, went looking on Keep Cups website for the glass one, but no sign of it on there. Pre Release review of it called it a Keep Cup Brew.

She's heading to the Biome store at lunch time to check out the JOCO Glass Coffee Cup.

 

[Zam]

These Lifeventure thermos cup/mugs are fantastic...spill proof, almost unbreakable, and keep coffee hot for ages

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lifevent...s_HikingEquipment_RL&var=&hash=item20da61b627

 

[mcrae]

It's already out.

there are other glass ones but they aren't keep cups.

http://sprudge.com/first-look-new-glass-keep-cup.html

 

[vtwiz]

there are other glass ones but they aren't keep cups.

http://sprudge.com/first-look-new-glass-keep-cup.html

Does it matter? They're all cups you keep aren't they?

 

[Skydome]

This is the only Coffee mug you need..

That's the one I have, and it's all I ever use..

 

[carpetrunner]

Microwave moka?

I realise that searching out the best coffee in a foreign town is the real challenge for true adventurers... sometimes when I'm jetlagged, particularly in America, I just need a good coffee now.

The only common denominator for hotel rooms in the USA is a microwave - I have seen a couple of different microwave moka designs - has anyone used one? compared to a standard stove top moka, was it adequate? where can I get one?

Thanks guys;
- carpetrunner

 

[mcrae]

Does it matter? They're all cups you keep aren't they?

Usability from the baristas perspective, yes, it does matter. It can be a little frustrating having to deal with a 20oz cup on a machine that will only accomodate up to 12oz cups and then having to deal with a latex rubber lid. Keep cup (trademark) are typically easier to use and the lids fit properly as well.

 

[vtwiz]

Usability from the baristas perspective, yes, it does matter. It can be a little frustrating having to deal with a 20oz cup on a machine that will only accomodate up to 12oz cups and then having to deal with a latex rubber lid. Keep cup (trademark) are typically easier to use and the lids fit properly as well.

The Mrs just bought a glass 'Joco' branded cup. It's 8oz and she bought it from a very good 'coffee snobs' cafe so hopefully will be barista approved.