COVID-19: who’s going full doomsday prep on this?

Squidfayce

Trigger happy
I have no idea about Buck or the Blue Dirt guys, but I don't like the way a monopoly impacts customer outcomes. Some of these businesses need some sort of permission from the authorities to access/operate in areas like national Park or state forests, and those authorities shouldn't be supporting a monopoly.
i dont have any experience with any of the aforementioned groups. However while i agree with the sentiment, it doesn't really translate where the market isn't huge. From what i can tell that particular market split between say 3 or more operators would probably leave all three+ operators struggling to provide the service in a manner that allows them to make a living, and dare i say a profit.

If the market demanded it - ie there were people lining up for hours, prepared to wait and not work around it, year round, there would be space for a competitor. The market would provide for both and people could choose leading to great outcomes.
 

LPG

Likes Dirt
I'm not expecting it to stay this way but I'm pretty shocked how low nsw numbers have been keeping. It's probably a false sense of security before people actually start testing and we get thoroughly slapped down but it does make it feel like we are getting through this (now that we have spread it outside our borders...)

I'm hopeful that our weather/outdoor lifestyle/unfortunately low use of public transport keeps us in a better position than the UK and similar.
 

pink poodle

Our man isn't in the West
However while i agree with the sentiment, it doesn't really translate where the market isn't huge. From what i can tell that particular market split between say 3 or more operators would probably leave all three+ operators struggling to provide the service in a manner that allows them to make a living, and dare i say a profit.
You're right the government should be protecting the profitability of businesses at the cost of competition. I had forgotten how the free market works...


I guess we could call it geo-blocking on a micro level.
 

Squidfayce

Trigger happy
You're right the government should be protecting the profitability of businesses at the cost of competition. I had forgotten how the free market works...


I guess we could call it geo-blocking on a micro level.
youre missing the point. If its not profitable to operate, no one does and everyone who otherwise would use the service suffers as a result. On the same hand, why would someone try to operate in a local market where the saturation factor is equal to one business? That's just a bad business decision regardless of any perceived "monopoly". You would have to fund that yourself as no bank would lend you money on that business plan. Would you like to gamble away any life savings and operate at a loss for years in the hope that you become profitable? On the flip side, you could become the dominant party in that market and dare i also say put the competition out of business becoming that which you despise? :D

competition only works where there is enough of a market for more than one participant to service.
 
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Minlak

Lockdowns have cut into the blowing hobo market
You're right the government should be protecting the profitability of businesses at the cost of competition. I had forgotten how the free market works...


I guess we could call it geo-blocking on a micro level.
youre missing the point. If its not profitable to operate, no one does and everyone who otherwise would use the service suffers as a result. On the same hand, why would someone try to operate in a local market where the saturation factor is equal to one business? That's just a bad business decision regardless of any perceived "monopoly". You would have to fund that yourself as no bank would lend you money on that business plan. Would you like to gamble away any life savings and operate at a loss for years in the hope that you become profitable? On the flip side, you could become the dominant party in that market and dare i also say put the competition out of business becoming that which you despise? :D

competition only works where there is enough of a market for more than one participant to service.

It's like the E-Bike debacle - There is a Excise levied on all E-Bikes imported into the country because we have a local manufacturer - So even though they do not compete with the bikes they make on the same level as the bikes imported we still have to pay more for every E-Bike because we are protecting local manufacturing.
 

Squidfayce

Trigger happy
It's like the E-Bike debacle - There is a Excise levied on all E-Bikes imported into the country because we have a local manufacturer - So even though they do not compete with the bikes they make on the same level as the bikes imported we still have to pay more for every E-Bike because we are protecting local manufacturing.
Is the ebike excise specific to ebikes, or are they caught up in the overall EV taxes? ( i couldn't find anything). Though i did learn that in Vic we are no taxing ev owners on a per KM basis (2.5c - 250 smackeroos for a 10k year) to offset some of the fuel excise losses at the bowser.
 

Dales Cannon

The Olden Dazed
Staff member
youre missing the point. If its not profitable to operate, no one does and everyone who otherwise would use the service suffers as a result. On the same hand, why would someone try to operate in a local market where the saturation factor is equal to one business? That's just a bad business decision regardless of any perceived "monopoly". You would have to fund that yourself as no bank would lend you money on that business plan. Would you like to gamble away any life savings and operate at a loss for years in the hope that you become profitable? On the flip side, you could become the dominant party in that market and dare i also say put the competition out of business becoming that which you despise? :D

competition only works where there is enough of a market for more than one participant to service.
I am not missing the point. I just disagree.
You are both missing it. @moorey has been feeling up @Haakon.
 

Freediver

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Is the ebike excise specific to ebikes, or are they caught up in the overall EV taxes? ( i couldn't find anything). Though i did learn that in Vic we are no taxing ev owners on a per KM basis (2.5c - 250 smackeroos for a 10k year) to offset some of the fuel excise losses at the bowser.
5% on Ebikes from countries that we don't have an FTA with. They tried to put it on all bikes but it got knocked back.
 

dirtdad

Likes Dirt
so whats your solution to driving a competetive and profitable market for all participants where there just isnt a market for it?
I think the point was simply the Govt authorities can't be selective about who they grant permission to. It should be in a fair way that promotes competition.

If it's a finite resource they're granting some sort of rights to (eg. like telecom bandwidth) then they should auction off the resource.
Say the access rights for commercial vehicles on a National Parks road is limited to 20 trips per day (for reasons). They should auction off that right (or parts of that right) on a periodic basis. Say once every 2 years. People who can make money from it will pay the Govt more than people who can't.
Competition comes from new entrants who think they can do a better job than the incumbent, and who bid more for the rights next time around.
Of course with resources that are artificially constrained (like limiting road use to much less than max capacity) rather than physically constrained (like radio frequencies) you will always have lobbying to increase the amount being sold off.
 

Squidfayce

Trigger happy
I think the point was simply the Govt authorities can't be selective about who they grant permission to. It should be in a fair way that promotes competition.

If it's a finite resource they're granting some sort of rights to (eg. like telecom bandwidth) then they should auction off the resource.
Say the access rights for commercial vehicles on a National Parks road is limited to 20 trips per day (for reasons). They should auction off that right (or parts of that right) on a periodic basis. Say once every 2 years. People who can make money from it will pay the Govt more than people who can't.
Competition comes from new entrants who think they can do a better job than the incumbent, and who bid more for the rights next time around.
Of course with resources that are artificially constrained (like limiting road use to much less than max capacity) rather than physically constrained (like radio frequencies) you will always have lobbying to increase the amount being sold off.
We're talking about people running mtb trips. People aren't clambering over each other to play in this space. If there were, then yes, the above is wholly relevant.

I mean has anyone tried to challenge this status quo in this specific local market only to come up against govt roadblocks that were unfair or anticompetitive? I'm guessing not
 
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ozzybmx

call me Cáitín
competition only works where there is enough of a market for more than one participant to service.
If you have a street with 5 hairdressing salons on it, you would need to be keen to open the 6th one.
The big issue with shuttles is one operator lobbying local council to monopolise it for themselves.
In Derby they have issued about 6 permits but they continue to allow private shuttles too.

Some of the shuttle operators have evolved and innovated to make themselves stand out, buggy shuttles, big puppa shuttles to a different spot in the park, Bay of fires with a top 13km descent repeat at the start, unbooked rock up and pay casual shuttles, compete package shuttles... they are keeping each other honest and this is great for consumers.

The Fox Creek rebuild here in SA prioritised a shuttle parking area at top and bottom.

Allowing a bike park monopilisation with one operator and banning private use of the road is a shit business decision for the council.

I've been in Bright about 4 times with a bike for anything from 5 days to 2 weeks. I will never be back again to ride, maybe a visit on the way through but by doing what they did there, they have taken 10 times the amount of $$$ from the rest of the town.
I won't pay for shuttles as my missus #1 pastime is shuttle bunny but we eat out every night and I drink a lot of piss, was partial to those $18, 9% IIPA's from the Bright Brewery too.
 
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link1896

Is not a gynaecologist but will look at your fork
If you have a street with 5 hairdressing salons on it, you we would need to be keen to open the 6th one.
The big issue with shuttles is one operator lobbying local council to monopolise it for themselves.
In Derby they have issued about 6 permits but they continue to allow private shuttles too.

Some of the shuttle operators have evolved and innovated to make themselves stand out, buggy shuttles, big puppa shuttles to a different spot in the park, Bay of fires with a top 13km descent repeat at the start, unbooked rock up and pay casual shuttles, compete package shuttles... they are keeping each other honest and this is great for consumers.

The Fox Creek rebuild here in SA prioritised a shuttle parking area at top and bottom.

Allowing a bike park monopilisation with one operator and banning private use of the road is a shit business decision for the council.

I've been in Bright about 4 times with a bike for anything from 5 days to 2 weeks. I will never be back again to ride, maybe a visit on the way through but by doing what they did there, they have taken 10 times the amount of $$$ from the rest of the town.
I won't pay for shuttles as my missus #1 pastime is shuttle bunny but we eat out every night and I drink a lot of piss, was partial to those $18, 9% IIPA's from the Bright Brewery too.

Once we go down the rabbit hole of shittiness from local governments, we will never recover. Corrupt, inept, arrogant. Pick two.
 

dazz

Queen Karen of Ballarat
Allowing a bike park monopilisation with one operator and banning private use of the road is a shit business decision for the council.
^^^ This irks me too. Last time i was there with family, didn't have my bike but wanted to drive up and spectate with the kids - nup, can't do that! Public road - closed! Just driving through the main road at the bottom of the Mystic now has quite a 'private property' feel to it. Made me feel like unless you had a glider or MTB with you and were waiving a fist full of cash in the other hand, not welcome and GTF outta the way!

I guess they are trying to replicate the ski season type access to the mountain, but it's not coming off like that.
 
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