Do I play God and kill three Fox puppies?

[Middo]

There's a bloody big NPWS office in Jindy. Go in there, ask to see a ranger or the pest control officer (who will have access to a gun). They will also educate you as to why foxes are so bad for our environment - and just how much effort goes into trying to control the massive problem of feral pests. I'm sure they would gladly take them off your hands as opposed to the alternative of letting them go to run free in the bush.

If you can't be bothered doing that, then get a shovel, place it just behind the back of their heads, and with one sharp, forceful stomp (delicate, apprehensive, gentle is not what's needed here) severe the head/break the neck. I hate doing it and it makes me feel sick, but I hate even more the idea of seeing animals suffer needlessly or the thought of feral pests spreading freely - especially through ignorance.

While I appreciate the caring for animals sentiment, seriously, what do you people do if you hit an animal on the road? Do you take responsibility for it and try and either take it to a vet/wires or euthenase it? Or do you just drive off and leave it to slowly die, and try to console yourselves that someone else with more moral fibre will deal with the problem?

10 pages of should-I-or-shouldn't-I? Harden the fuck up.

 

[Steve-0]

11 Pages for a question with an obvious answer... I haven't read most of it but its clear you have to kill them. The question should be how.

I wouldn't like to do it, for toads and other pests yeh but foxes i don't know if i could. But it needs to be done, go to the local vet or RSPCA or anywhere similar and they'll answer this thread definitively and take care of the problem with no hassles. Go Go and git 'err done, then go for a ride.

 

[MasterOfReality]

Just taking them home and raising them as a pet does not make them tame. They are a wild animal.

there is a famous russian study using selectively bred grey foxes. It took about 50 generations of breeding just for tameness before they had pups with consistent, predictable domestic temperaments.

Another study had wolf pups raised as spoilt lap dogs to see if up bringing was a major factor in tameness. By 18months of age the wolves were showing no signs of domestication and were deemed to be a serious danger to the researchers and the study had to be stopped.

"Just take them home as pets" is one of the sillier suggestions in this thread. Almost as silly as filing their teeth down

Yeah I saw this the other night.

Great doco illustrating the evolution of domestic dogs.

 

[al_]

This is one of the worst things i've ever seen. The ability to be cruel to defenceless animals suggests a dangerous imbalance, and regardless of their breed it is not your place to play this game.

If you do, where is the line?

If you really believed in doing the right thing you would inform professionals who are employed to do this work. I'm not arguing with their ability to do damage, but its looks like this is you desperately justifying doing something really fucked up.

Seriously, round up or a car exhaust?

I am not a fan of the damage introduced species do, but that is no justification for killing them in a totally inhumane way. They are just doing what they are programmed to do... You aren't, and appear far more like a psychopath serial killer with a god complex.

 

[MasterOfReality]

In the absence of injectable barbiturate to kill an animal, your local ethics committee will advise 2 other methods - 1) gassing using carbon monoxide (PETROL exhaust gas used to be fine but is now considered unethical) carbon monoxide binds to haemoglobin about 100x more readily than oxygen, but is useless for cellular respiration. Death by CO poisoning is similar to suffocation, but is painless - unconsciousness occurs before eventual death. Breathing in the other fumes in exhaust gas isn't a party and will cause discomfort/breathing difficulties which can distress an animal however.
2) cervical seperation, either by pithing of spinal over-extension - i.e. broken neck. When done by a practiced/trained person, this is as near as instant as you can get. Conversely, when someone tries who doesn't know what they are doing it can be horrible for everyone involved. Basically - cradle the head in one hand, hold the body in the other and in a sharp, fast motion pull the head forward until the spine "pops". The animal should die instantly. On a smaller animal, Quickly stabbing the base of the skull/top of the spine with a sharp pointed metal object like a sharp skewer - provided you get it through the bone in one hit - yields similar results.

Depending on how comfortable I am that I can break an animal's neck in one go, I pick 1 - calico bag ziptied on the exhaust or 2 - though a hard pull tends to work more effectively than a twist.

Another I've had to use on a sheep when we hit it and had nothing else to kill it was a crowbar swung hard between the eyes, which was effective.

DON"T - back a car over it, or drop something heavy on it. this almost never works immediately and while you get to be further away form the fatal blow it leads to unnecessary suffering.

Killing an animal, at least for me always sucks and is upsetting no matter how I have to do it - but sometimes it's necessary.

Awesome, especially the description on how to break the neck.

I had to finish a kangaroo off with a tyre iron west of Cobar once. Collected it with a Patrol and full size bullbar but it didn't die instantly. I felt like absolute shit in the seconds leading up to the first swing.

 

[thecat]

I am not a fan of the damage introduced species do, but that is no justification for killing them in a totally inhumane way.

Thus why Rod was asking the most humane way of doing... Seriously, read and understand the question before lampooning a guy who is one of our most leftist, hippy pinko, vego... members as a psyco animal killer

 

[al_]

Thus why Rod was asking the most humane way of doing... Seriously, read and understand the question before lampooning a guy who is one of our most leftist, hippy pinko, vego... members as a psyco animal killer

Being leftist, vego and a hippy doesn't give you knowledge of how to do this stuff.

By your logic you butcher your own meat?

Call someone that knows what they are doing... or do some research into the codes surrounding professional management of these issues. I'm pretty sure there is no mention of car exhausts.

I found 3 Fox Puppies, I'm guessing about 12 weeks old.
I have a trap from the council that I guess I can trap one ata time. I'd have to kill them using the car exhaust.
Should I do it?

 

[Drew.]

Being leftist, vego and a hippy doesn't give you knowledge of how to do this stuff.

By your logic you butcher your own meat?

Erm, what?

thecat never mentioned anything that would suggest that; he was saying that people should read NSMs post properly before jumping and calling him barbaric etc as he's quite the opposite. 'never said anything about his knowledge being greater because he was vego...

 

[Lemontime]

Winter fashion accessory?

 

[thecat]

Being leftist, vego and a hippy doesn't give you knowledge of how to do this stuff.

By your logic you butcher your own meat?

.

Settle mate.

Rod asked a question,if you read the thread you'll see he tried his local council and they gave him a trap. Rods first thought was that car exhaust was the most humane way. This is an assumption anyone who hasn't done this type of thing before might make as I recall it being common practice several years ago.

Now if you reread the entire thread you will note that between the extremes of "Drown/Poisson/what ever" and "take them home as pets" some very knowledgeable people have offered more practical advice on what to do and have even lent their knowledge of what is currently considered the most humane way of doing things.

How that equates to me somehow having to butcher my own meat (Which I have done BTW, with chickens and turkeys anyway) to argue against you referring to Rod as "more like a psychopath serial killer with a god complex. " I don't know

 

[al_]

I hope you are right. Given how ignorant many on this site appear to be, and how bad this looked i thought the worst.

Three fox pups have the potential to do plenty of damage, but they also deserve not to be tortured. I personally think if you need to ask for advice on an internet forum, you are best leaving it to someone that knows what they are doing.

 

[mittagongmtb]

Seriously, round up or a car exhaust?

Do not use Roundup!

The acute toxicity of glyphosate products to humans was first publicized by physicians in Japan who studied 56 suicide attempts; nine cases were fatal. Symptoms included intestinal pain, vomiting, excess fluid in the lungs, pneumonia, clouding of consciousness, and destruction of red blood cells.66 They calculated that the fatal cases ingested on average about 200 milliliters (3/4 of a cup). They believed that POEA was the cause of Roundup's toxicity.66 More recent reviews of poisoning incidents have found similar symptoms, as well as lung dysfunction,67-69 erosion of the gastrointestinal tract,67, 69 abnormal electrocardiograms,69 low blood pressure,67, 69 kidney damage,67, 68, 70 and damage to the larynx.71

In other words a pretty miserable way to die! Just think if these poor animals get a sub-lethal dose.


I haven't followed the entire thread but I hope the author has now digested 1) the animals need to be euthanased, period. 2) the best people equipped to do this would be a)someone with a rifle at point black range, b) a veterinarian who has a license to use a suitable euthanasia solution. And don't bother asking your vet for a syringe of this stuff - you want get it. (I have euthanased several of this species over the years, despite protests of do-gooders who are ignorant as to the effect of foxy-loxy and the law.)

 

[tranceup]

If its taken 2 days of internet forum posts and theres still no resolution the chances are the foxes will have grown up and died of old age well before a decision is reached from this fine upstanding member of the roturburn community.
How society has changed, lets talk about a trivial question for 2 whole days on the internet on a mtb forum, fuck me, pissed i read it all.
What a bunch of horseshit.

 

[taibo]

i cant believe some of the shit i have just read...fuck me, where are we headed! Some of the acts suggested are beyond my comprehension.

Rod...to answer you thread title, God wouldn't kill them. He would magically turn them vegan and everyone would be safe and happy I say dont kill them, let mother nature do what she needs to do. No life deserves to be taken.

 

[Lemontime]

Rod...to answer you 0hread title, God wouldn't kill them. He would magically turn them vegan and everyone would be safe and happy I say dont kill them, let mother nature do what she needs to do. No life deserves to be taken.

But it's taking 3 lives to save hundreds of lives. Where's your god now?

Also: What about Hitlers life?

 

[thecat]

Also: What about Hitlers life?

Thus invoking Godwins Law...
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"

 

[al_]

But it's taking 3 lives to save hundreds of lives. Where's your god now?

Also: What about Hitlers life?

The majority of those would be rabbits though, and they are destructive too.

In this example i don't think the Fox is the Hitler figure.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Al dude, words often fail me, but I think I made it pretty clear what the topic was.
So far this thread has not had many soloutions.
There's 3 or more foxs, I'll be catching one at a time. Ideally killing it close to location to lessen it's stress. So putting them in the car, and driving them to fairy land isn't an option.
So far, as I see it, my options are.
Car exhaust, probably easiest and quickest, but least favoured, even with majicly cooling the exhaust that I've not heard an easy soloution for.
To everyone saying call a proffessional, you fricken call em, send me their number. I highly dounbt any "proffessional" will have much better skills, intelligence or desire to ease the death than I will, but am still open to suggestions.
Trying to get some 1080 from a ranger would probably be the best soloution.
Nat parks is like drawing teeth. I am forced to talk to dopey women that know zilch in the front office, and just parrot regurgitated diplomatic crap at me to make them feel worthy of their job.
Council was even worse.
I spoke to the local servo operater, he's going to tell a local farmer who has sheep that the Fox's would be a threat to. Hopefully he'll call me. If he's a shit shot, I will be meters away to club any suffering fox straight into the after life.
Every day they're learning how to kill, and doing it very ineficiently I'm sure. Perhaps car exhaust will have to be it if a soloutions not found within days.
I will not be using roundup, or even ratsak, they're barbaric, and cruel.
If I can get anything more potent, I'd happily use it.
But I'd rather remove the victims one by one and kill them without the others seeing if possible.
Yawn.
Make some calls somone. I'm living in shitsville with bad reception, no cash ,and on prepaid.
Should I keep their hides?
I'm sure they'd be as good as any. How to skin and tan? I know cut along inside arms and down belly, then just tear off or cut away at, and other tips? What about keeping the tail, how too?

 

[al_]

Why are you so desperate to kill these three when in all likelihood there are hundreds of them in the area? I think the average is 8+ per square km.

I say you should call a professional because they will have a gun and the ability to use it.

You have neither. That said, a car exhaust is basically the same thing...

I should mention that the ethics of farming is an area i am intrigued by. You have presented nothing to suggest that you have the ability to do this the right way, so the obvious thing to do is leave them alone until you can find someone that does.

I'm still perplexed as to why you asked this on a bike forum too. All i've said is to get someone along who has the tools and knowledge to do it right, but you seem unwilling to acknowledge that. There is a very strict code outlining how these programs are supposed to be done, and i can assure you that there is no mention of a car exhaust anywhere.

 

[Registered Nutcase]

Why are you so desperate to kill these three when in all likelihood there are hundreds of them in the area? I think the average is 8+ per square km.

I say you should call a professional because they will have a gun and the ability to use it.

You have neither. That said, a car exhaust is basically the same thing...

I should mention that the ethics of farming is an area i am intrigued by. You have presented nothing to suggest that you have the ability to do this the right way, so the obvious thing to do is leave them alone until you can find someone that does.

I'm still perplexed as to why you asked this on a bike forum too. All i've said is to get someone along who has the tools and knowledge to do it right, but you seem unwilling to acknowledge that. There is a very strict code outlining how these programs are supposed to be done, and i can assure you that there is no mention of a car exhaust anywhere.

Its simple there is 3 less of the barsteds. Every one killed is saving our native wildlife. and id rather see possums than fox's any days