Electric Vehicles etc

[Ultra Lord]

@Cardy George 89% of australians live in city’s. (Apparently we have 18 city’s in australia, I only thought melbourne and sydney counted as real city’s).

That’s alot more people who don’t need bangbang motors for daily driving than those that do.

 

[Cardy George]

@Cardy George 89% of australians live in city’s. (Apparently we have 18 city’s in australia, I only thought melbourne and sydney counted as real city’s).

That’s alot more people who don’t need bangbang motors for daily driving than those that do.

We're on the outskirts of one of those minor cities. And if our family were contained within the area, an EV would make sense.

One of the issues we have is South Australia ends at Renmark, and Victoria ends at Bendigo, and I imagine Broken Hill feels the same about the Great Dividing Range. So those of us who want to do the right thing are hamstrung by a lack of infrastructure. There's just not enough people to make it 'worthwhile'.

 

[Scotty T]

You’ll probably find yourself with a Hybrid Hilux first.

It's shit that Toyota didn't do PHEV from the start, and still don't do them over here. Hilux H/PHEV/BEV will be a long time coming I reckon.

 

[Scotty T]

We're on the outskirts of one of those minor cities. And if our family were contained within the area, an EV would make sense.

I think unless you need true off roading capability that the Outlander PHEV is a great option for your needs and price competitive in its class because people aren't buying them because scared of EV's.

I just don't need a big chunky car otherwise we would have seriously considered one, extra money for extra size we didn't need didn't add up. There were no PHEV's in the non luxury hatchback class (we have a base model Golf 7) when we looked and only one now being the Ioniq but they have a 200km range and coming is a 300km BEV with more coming over the next few years so we'll have a genuine choice of BEVs for our next car.

 

[Calvin27]

It's shit that Toyota didn't do PHEV from the start, and still don't do them over here.

I disagree. I rekon they absolutely made the right move and even supported the development of EVs by showing the public that hybrid drives are viable and work.

 

[Haakon]

It's shit that Toyota didn't do PHEV from the start, and still don't do them over here. Hilux H/PHEV/BEV will be a long time coming I reckon.

Right about the time the muppet show was banging on about tradies and lost weekends, Toyota was committing to electrifying and/or hybridising everything they make. They’ve said hilux won’t go full BEV, but expect a beefed up Prius drivetrain in one sooner rather than later.

It’s as much to keep noxious fumes emissions, diesel is tapped out for improvements.

 

[Scotty T]

I disagree. I rekon they absolutely made the right move and even supported the development of EVs by showing the public that hybrid drives are viable and work.

I didn't mean making them from the start, but when they started making them releasing over here, and I agree with your point of proving that they can work viably. Also can't really blame them for not coming over here because Aussies won't buy the Outlander so it would seem to be a loss maker with our small population.

It seems to me Hybrids save petrol money, whereas PHEV saves a large chunk of CO2 emissions. Case in point my 2015 Golf gets ~5.2l/100km if I drive light on the throttle, a 2015 Prius gets about the same real world average (http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius) so it was a waste of time for me. If I was a cab start stopping all day it would save significant amounts of fuel and I guess it's why they all have them.

 

[Calvin27]

Case in point my 2015 Golf gets ~5.2l/100km if I drive light on the throttle

The 2019 rav4 gets about that and that's without any feathering of throttle. Where hybrids start to overtake CIE is on the stop start where the WLTP figures are about as accurate as a finger painting of a space shuttle.

As for PHEV I'd like to know the reasoning, possibly because they hit a higher price point with a larger battery bank?

 

[Scotty T]

People seem to rather add the heated leather seats and sunroof they don't actually need than spend the same amount of money over the base price into a PHEV system. Get the luxury model RAV/Kluger instead of the less luxury model PHEV. Plus Australia never liked the Outlander much before it was a PHEV anyway.

 

[hifiandmtb]

You’ll be served by the market soon enough. But you’re part of a very small part of the market (ie rural) and so you’ll need to wait

And not a huge contributor to the problem.

Just hold off buying anything until you can get the EV that you need.

 

[ashes_mtb]

I think unless you need true off roading capability that the Outlander PHEV is a great option for your needs and price competitive in its class because people aren't buying them because scared of EV's.

I just don't need a big chunky car otherwise we would have seriously considered one, extra money for extra size we didn't need didn't add up. There were no PHEV's in the non luxury hatchback class (we have a base model Golf 7) when we looked and only one now being the Ioniq but they have a 200km range and coming is a 300km BEV with more coming over the next few years so we'll have a genuine choice of BEVs for our next car.

I'd love a PHEV Pajero thankyou very much.

 

[Scotty T]

I'd love a PHEV Pajero thankyou very much.

I know right? They have had great battery and motor tech for ten years and done one mainstream car that was never popular.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Excellent review:

 

[Dales Cannon]

Since my argument was stupid in the other thread here are some questions:

What is the DOD vs life curve for the 100kWh battery in a tesla?
What average speed was used to calculate the 595 km range of a model s?
How much battery was left at the end of 595 km?
What is the average power required for a model s to sit at 50, 75, 100 km/hr?
What infrastructure is required in a normal domestic home to charge an EV like a tesla model s?
What voltage is used to charge the model s battery?
What current is used to fast charge or normal charge the battery? Both into the battery and from the grid.

 

[Haakon]

Dod?

 

[bear the bear]

Dod?

Depth of Discharge

 

[Haakon]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/amp/

ttps://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1149053/Electric-car-real-world-range-test-Tesla-Hyundai-Jaguar/amp

https://teslike.com/range/

Might have to spend a bit more time at the supercharger to get 700 - Tesla owners spreadsheet their experiences. Model 3 SR still gets me home to Melbourne with half an hour on a supercharger somewhere along the way. About my lunch break anyway on that drive.

https://rmi.org/electric-vehicle-charging-for-dummies/

 

[Dales Cannon]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/amp/

ttps://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1149053/Electric-car-real-world-range-test-Tesla-Hyundai-Jaguar/amp

https://teslike.com/range/

Might have to spend a bit more time at the supercharger to get 700 - Tesla owners spreadsheet their experiences. Model 3 SR still gets me home to Melbourne with half an hour on a supercharger somewhere along the way. About my lunch break anyway on that drive.

https://rmi.org/electric-vehicle-charging-for-dummies/

Still doesn't answer the questions.

 

[Stredda]

I'm keen at some stage to dip my toes into the electric car market but there just isn't quite the car in todays market I want just yet. I'd love something like the Rivian SUV or Ute but don't need the massive horsepower or the upmarket luxury. I would be happy with a 300km range, 4wd with a bit of clearance, and just a few luxuries like power windows/mirrors, Bluetooth and cruise control. Might have to wait just a few more years. My 2010 Triton has just clocked up 300,000km so I might get another year of more out of it
My brother has a Model 3 coming very soon, so interested to see how that goes.

 

[Haakon]

Still doesn't answer the questions.

Well, I'm in a bunch of conferences this week so thats an easy response via an iphone. Most questions are in there I think if you read through it.

Not sure what you mean by depth of dischage vs life though? One of those links gives some real life durability experiences, noting the cars with big mileages on them are abused with lots of fast charging vs the ones mostly home charged which is kinder tot he batteries.